Nephilim17 Posted March 16 Posted March 16 10 hours ago, Mango said: The interesting thing is that if Diggs is a post June 1 move and we sit tight on our roster we would roll that $19M over to 2025. In theory he could add $24M cap dollars next season. Hey Mango, my brain hurts doing the math (or is it the hangover?)... Are you suggesting we roll over the cap savings to 2025 if we cut him June 1? If so, what does that mean for 2024? Do we have to eat dead cap this year? If so, I don't think we have the room to do so without some massive restructures, which many don't want. So how does that work?
Beck Water Posted March 16 Posted March 16 7 minutes ago, FireChans said: This would make me sad. If Josh can’t maintain control of Diggs, and we are relying on Mack Hollins to do so, let’s just trade him post 6/1 and be done with it. Josh needed (and something he said last off-season makes me think he knows this) to be the "bad guy" and step up and shut it down. It's a hard thing for him to do, because it seems his Dad engrained in him to "share praise and accept blame" and that's normally a trait I think we all admire, vs. Aaron Rodgers and sometimes even Mahomes last year, calling out his teammates and throwing them a bit under the bus at times. But Josh isn't always there. There's a lot of watching film in the WR room and sometimes as a "receivers room" including TE and RB (where the position coach may be there), and just hanging out at dinners and etc (where the coaches aren't there). There needs to be leadership and accountability in each position group. That's my question and point - has there been? who has there been with the pedigree, production, and stature to counterbalance Diggs?
Einstein Posted March 16 Author Posted March 16 4 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said: Hey Mango, my brain hurts doing the math (or is it the hangover?)... Are you suggesting we roll over the cap savings to 2025 if we cut him June 1? If so, what does that mean for 2024? Do we have to eat dead cap this year? If so, I don't think we have the room to do so without some massive restructures, which many don't want. So how does that work? Post June 1... we would have a $8.9M hit this year and $22M hit next year.
yall Posted March 16 Posted March 16 From SI's Emmy award winner Mike Fisher (aka not just some blogger): "The Buffalo Bills wideout is addicted to the social-media drama and he simply will not stop." https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/stefon-diggs-drama-whatever-tweet-buffalo-bills-trade-speculation-dallas-cowboys He knows he gets national attention with this kind of stuff. He needs to stop. It's childish. Stop defending his poor behavior. 1 2 1
Nephilim17 Posted March 16 Posted March 16 2 minutes ago, Einstein said: Post June 1... we would have a $8.9M hit this year and $22M hit next year. But @Mango brings up the point, I think, that don't just look at dead cap, look at the NET savings of dead cap vs paying his salary. And I think Mango says that cutting him saves us NET $5 million next year but if we roll over the $19 million in 2024 savings to 2025, that NET savings then is $24 million with Diggs off the roster ($5 million net in 2025 + the rollover of $!9 million savings from 2024 to 2025). So we would have an extra $24 million next year if he's gone. Mango, did I get that right?
Einstein Posted March 16 Author Posted March 16 3 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said: But @Mango brings up the point, I think, that don't just look at dead cap, look at the NET savings of dead cap vs paying his salary. Thats absolutely a good way of looking at it. It would cost us $8.8M in dead cap this year, but we would also save his salary and cap space. Therefore, we would open up nearly $19M of cap space by trading/cutting him post June 1st.
Nephilim17 Posted March 16 Posted March 16 Just now, Einstein said: Thats absolutely a good way of looking at it. It would cost us $8.8M in dead cap this year, but we would also save his salary and cap space. Therefore, we would open up nearly $19M of cap space by trading/cutting him post June 1st. In spite of all the BS (IMHO) he causes with his messages and waving goodbye in a Bills uni Twitter bio pic (what a juvenile thing to do) I think it's a huge gamble to think a rookie and Samuels can be our top two WRs this year... So I think he plays one more year and is gone. But who knows. I just wish he'd shut up and focus on doing what team leaders should do.
FireChans Posted March 16 Posted March 16 12 minutes ago, Beck Water said: That's my question and point - has there been? who has there been with the pedigree, production, and stature to counterbalance Diggs? No. But there never will be. Diggs ain’t gonna listen to Mack Hollins. Brady is famous for reigning in Randy Moss (probably with some help from Bill). It wasn’t Wes Welker or Deion Branch.
Beck Water Posted March 16 Posted March 16 4 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said: Hey Mango, my brain hurts doing the math (or is it the hangover?)... Are you suggesting we roll over the cap savings to 2025 if we cut him June 1? If so, what does that mean for 2024? Do we have to eat dead cap this year? If so, I don't think we have the room to do so without some massive restructures, which many don't want. So how does that work? The Diggs contract is complicated because his $18.5M 2024 salary guarantees..........tomorrow. So if we cut Diggs today and designate him as our other post-June-1 cut (Tre White being the other), we are no longer obligated for his salary guarantee; the portion of his amortized bonuses assigned to this year count against this year's cap (that would be $8.849M, giving us something like $19.36M savings this season); BUT, we roll the rest of his dead cap from amortized signing bonuses onto next season's cap (that would be $22.25M by my calculation). At least, that's how I understand it to work.
Nephilim17 Posted March 16 Posted March 16 Just now, FireChans said: No. But there never will be. Diggs ain’t gonna listen to Mack Hollins. Brady is famous for reigning in Randy Moss (probably with some help from Bill). It wasn’t Wes Welker or Deion Branch. I'm hoping, maybe after Diggs leaves, whenever that is, that Josh steps up his leadership that way. I remember when Peyton Manning had his leadership in the lockerroom questioned ("Stupid kicker")... He later stepped it up.
Einstein Posted March 16 Author Posted March 16 1 minute ago, Nephilim17 said: In spite of all the BS (IMHO) he causes with his messages and waving goodbye in a Bills uni Twitter bio pic (what a juvenile thing to do) I think it's a huge gamble to think a rookie and Samuels can be our top two WRs this year... So I think he plays one more year and is gone. But who knows. I just wish he'd shut up and focus on doing what team leaders should do. I think you're more than likely correct. The other side of this coin though, is keeping him for another season strips most of his value away. We would be trying to trade a receiver about to turn 32 years old next offseason. I dont see it happening. It's likely now or never.
Mango Posted March 16 Posted March 16 16 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said: Hey Mango, my brain hurts doing the math (or is it the hangover?)... Are you suggesting we roll over the cap savings to 2025 if we cut him June 1? If so, what does that mean for 2024? Do we have to eat dead cap this year? If so, I don't think we have the room to do so without some massive restructures, which many don't want. So how does that work? Diggs nets us $19M in totally cap dollars in 2024 if we cut/trade him after June 1. If we don’t spend any of that money in the 2024 season it rolls over to 2025. His immediate effect on the 2025 cap if we cut/trade him on June 1 is +$5M. In theory Diggs could give us $24M more dollars if we don’t touch the $19M this year. Forget the dead cap number. The key is the delta between dead cap and cap hit on the roster. 10 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said: But @Mango brings up the point, I think, that don't just look at dead cap, look at the NET savings of dead cap vs paying his salary. And I think Mango says that cutting him saves us NET $5 million next year but if we roll over the $19 million in 2024 savings to 2025, that NET savings then is $24 million with Diggs off the roster ($5 million net in 2025 + the rollover of $!9 million savings from 2024 to 2025). So we would have an extra $24 million next year if he's gone. Mango, did I get that right? Nailed it! 1
Einstein Posted March 16 Author Posted March 16 2 minutes ago, Beck Water said: So if we cut Diggs today and designate him as our other post-June-1 cut (Tre White being the other), we are no longer obligated for his salary guarantee; the portion of his amortized bonuses assigned to this year count against this year's cap (that would be $8.849M, giving us something like $19.36M savings this season); BUT, we roll the rest of his dead cap from amortized signing bonuses onto next season's cap (that would be $22.25M by my calculation). This is right. And we technically save cap space either way. We would save $19M in cap space this year, and $5M in cap space next year. Mango made the excellent point that we could then roll that $19M savings into next year and open up $24M in cap space for 2025 by cutting or trading him post June 1st. Having $24M more to work with next year is tempting. 2
Beck Water Posted March 16 Posted March 16 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Mango said: Diggs nets us $19M in totally cap dollars in 2024 if we cut/trade him after June 1. If we don’t spend any of that money in the 2024 season it rolls over to 2025. His immediate effect on the 2025 cap if we cut/trade him on June 1 is +$5M. In theory Diggs could give us $24M more dollars if we don’t touch the $19M this year. Forget the dead cap number. The key is the delta between dead cap and cap hit on the roster. I will just say I am not following your reasoning on this point. I do know that you understand the cap. I'm sure that you understand there's no such thing as a "post june 1" designation for a trade as there is for a cut, where the team's obligations for this season void but the cap stays on the books until post- june 1 ( a trade can actually occur on or after June 1 of course, but the team incurs the obligation of all this season's guarantees) So can you explain what you mean by the statement "Diggs nets us $19M in total cap dollars in 2024 if we cut/trade him after June 1"? If we cut him today with a post-June-1 designation, Check. If we trade him after June 1 - that entirely depends upon whether and how much of his then fully-guaranteed $18.5M salary the trade partner takes on OR if he's cut after today, upon whether he has offset language in his contract which precludes "double dipping" and offers us relief to the extent of any salary in a new contract he signs I'm also puzzled by the "in theory Diggs could give us $24M more dollars if we don't touch the $19M this year". I think this isn't a way contract impacts on the cap are usually viewed, perhaps for good reason. Edited March 16 by Beck Water
Einstein's Dog Posted March 16 Posted March 16 31 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: Diggs knows exactly what he’s doing with the social media BS. Basically daring McBeane to cut or trade him before his 2024 salary becomes guaranteed tomorrow. If it actually happens, he can say he wanted it too I agree Diggs likes his social media. But the quote "Ready for watever" does not indicate to me that Diggs wants out. "Ready for watever" seems to me to be subtle acceptance that he might get shipped out. He was probably approached by Beane to take a pay cut and told Beane to get lost. Diggs certainly knows about the 17th date and its implications. He's probably heard through his agent that there is talk of trading him. Diggs knows this is a business. He didn't do the Von and Knox reduction and he is at risk for the wrath of Beane in that regard. It doesn't mean Diggs wanted out, it just means he wants his money.
Low Positive Posted March 16 Posted March 16 For those saying "draft his replacement," here is a list of every WR drafted in 2021 between Jalen Waddle (#6) and Amon-Ra St. Brown (#112). DeVonta Smith Kadarius Toney Rashod Bateman Elijah Moore Rondale Moore D'Wayne Eskridge Tutu Atwell Terrace Marshall Jr. Josh Palmer Dyami Brown Amari Rodgers Nico Collins Anthony Schwartz Dez Fitzpatrick I know that this year's draft is strong at WR, but my point is that the draft is always a crap shoot outside of the top two guys at any position. 1
Beck Water Posted March 16 Posted March 16 1 minute ago, Low Positive said: For those saying "draft his replacement," here is a list of every WR drafted in 2021 between Jalen Waddle (#6) and Amon-Ra St. Brown (#112). DeVonta Smith Kadarius Toney Rashod Bateman Elijah Moore Rondale Moore D'Wayne Eskridge Tutu Atwell Terrace Marshall Jr. Josh Palmer Dyami Brown Amari Rodgers Nico Collins Anthony Schwartz Dez Fitzpatrick I know that this year's draft is strong at WR, but my point is that the draft is always a crap shoot outside of the top two guys at any position. Not to take away from your point, but it's not even "the top 2 guys drafted at any position". Look at the 2018 QB draft. I think there's a clear consensus at this point that the top-2 guys are Josh Allen (the 3rd QB picked) and Lamar Jackson (the 5th) Look at the 2022 WR draft - the first two WR drafted were Smith-Njigba and Quentin Johnson, but the next two WR drafted (Zay Flowers and Jordan Addison) out-performed them last season. And Rashee Rice (drafted at #55 in the 2nd round) outperformed everyone else drafted in the first 3 rounds. To further your point that the draft is a crap shoot in many regards, the best receiver in that 2022 draft so far was drafted in the 5th round. 1
Saxum Posted March 16 Posted March 16 3 hours ago, Adam said: Could be anything. Could be saying goodbye to a lot of his teammates and friends that got cut and preparing for what happens with new ones. People always assume the worst of him and they’re always wrong. Maybe they need a hobby He knows by now he is stirring up angst. Either he enjoys it or he is trying to make Bills want to release / trade him. Last year he stirred a lot of stuff in Dallass where his brother played.
Mat68 Posted March 16 Posted March 16 Comes down to who would trade and how high do they pick. Do you make that move for Brian Thomas Jr? I dont. Nabers or Harrison sure but why would the team trade that. Diggs is a great player. Keep him and get better.
Beck Water Posted March 16 Posted March 16 33 minutes ago, yall said: From SI's Emmy award winner Mike Fisher (aka not just some blogger): "The Buffalo Bills wideout is addicted to the social-media drama and he simply will not stop." https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/stefon-diggs-drama-whatever-tweet-buffalo-bills-trade-speculation-dallas-cowboys He knows he gets national attention with this kind of stuff. He needs to stop. It's childish. Stop defending his poor behavior. He has a point: Quote Diggs is a brilliant player who faded in the second half of last season. The Bills have made a massive financial commitment to him and have said all the right things about him being a "No. 1 wide receiver'' and all the rest. But when we guess and assess as to all of the reasons the Bills cannot quite get over the hump? How to we avoid wondering if Stefon's annual teases about trades and unhappiness and money and authority and whatever - and now, "Ready for whatever'' - are not only not the Buffalo solution .......But are maybe the Buffalo problem? It's for reals that the man seems to need a mirror. OTOH, I do think the degree of furor over this particular tweet is overblown. I could say "it's childish; stop attacking him for acknowledging that the NFL is a business and regardless of what he prefers, at this time of the year a player can be swapped or cut."
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