Josh Allen Documentary - Right Place, Wrong Time

[Capco]

48 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

I think Mahomes is a better QB, but Allen is a better QB/leader for Buffalo.

The way I've always liked to phrase it is that Mahomes is the better QB, but Allen is the better football player.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Our luck is maddening sometimes.

 

Mahomes had a lot of buzz going into the 2017 Draft. There were questions though. He was a late riser after a wild workout and good interviews. At that time, being a Texas Tech QB was like wearing a Scarlet Letter. Many had come through that system and put up wild numbers and then not translated to the NFL level. 

 

I think McDermott and Beane's professional courtesy to Doug Whaley and Tyrod Taylor did us in. There's no way McDermott came in not knowing Beane was going to be coming with him. But rather than immediately take him on, they decided to let Whaley and his staff see through all the work they put in for 10 months. But they weren't going to select the QB of the future without Beane fully at the helm. 

 

And I think McDermott knew Taylor wasn't the guy. But for building goodwill in the locker room, he wanted to give him a year rather than come in and clean house. Maybe he even felt that there was a slight chance Taylor could grow under different coaching.

 

There was also a thought at the time of the 2017 Draft that the 2018 Draft had much better QB's and an all time class.

 

I remember thinking when we made the trade "with our luck, Mahomes will be a Franchise QB and the guy we take next year will bust". Luckily, our selection would turn into a most likely Future HOF'er. But, unbelievably, the guy we gave to the Chiefs would not only turn out to be a Franchise QB - but maybe the greatest QB of all time 🤦

 

I used to take solace in the fact that they got Mahomes and we got ammo that turned into Allen, White, and Edmunds. But then Edmunds left and White is destroyed.

 

Still - it's hard to cry over Josh Allen. Who knows if Mahomes would have became the same guy under this regime and supporting cast as he did under Andy Reid.

 

   

 

McD and Beane thought they were being very clever by having Beane stay in Carolina and siphon their draft prep info........from scouts whom they trusted.

 

Whaley had limited input that offseason.  He was literally moving his family out of town prior to the draft.

 

It wasn't a professional courtesy...........he just figured he'd gather info from 2 sets of scouts and make his own decisions.

 

Unfortunately for us,  the Panthers weren't scouting first round QB's.

 

They did so many things wrong early on that it kinda' boggles the mind.    

 

 

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Our luck is maddening sometimes.

 

Mahomes had a lot of buzz going into the 2017 Draft. There were questions though. He was a late riser after a wild workout and good interviews. At that time, being a Texas Tech QB was like wearing a Scarlet Letter. Many had come through that system and put up wild numbers and then not translated to the NFL level. 

 

I think McDermott and Beane's professional courtesy to Doug Whaley and Tyrod Taylor did us in. There's no way McDermott came in not knowing Beane was going to be coming with him. But rather than immediately take him on, they decided to let Whaley and his staff see through all the work they put in for 10 months. But they weren't going to select the QB of the future without Beane fully at the helm. 

 

And I think McDermott knew Taylor wasn't the guy. But for building goodwill in the locker room, he wanted to give him a year rather than come in and clean house. Maybe he even felt that there was a slight chance Taylor could grow under different coaching.

 

There was also a thought at the time of the 2017 Draft that the 2018 Draft had much better QB's and an all time class.

 

I remember thinking when we made the trade "with our luck, Mahomes will be a Franchise QB and the guy we take next year will bust". Luckily, our selection would turn into a most likely Future HOF'er. But, unbelievably, the guy we gave to the Chiefs would not only turn out to be a Franchise QB - but maybe the greatest QB of all time 🤦

 

I used to take solace in the fact that they got Mahomes and we got ammo that turned into Allen, White, and Edmunds. But then Edmunds left and White is destroyed.

 

Still - it's hard to cry over Josh Allen. Who knows if Mahomes would have became the same guy under this regime and supporting cast as he did under Andy Reid.

I think both guys ended up where they should. It’s really the best fit for both franchises. 

[SydneyBillsFan]

On 2/2/2024 at 1:05 PM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

The window is not closing. 

 

One or two YAC burners at WR - that's all it takes.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Loving this thank you for sharing 

[White Linen]

7 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Not with this coaching staff he’s not.  

 

He'll overcome that too.

[ganesh]

On 2/2/2024 at 6:30 AM, julian said:

Winning super bowls will come down to ownership and management maintaining a high level of commitment to winning a title and some luck, Allen has already shown to be an all time playoff performer and it’s up to the team around him to pull their own weight.

get him a defense

[PromoTheRobot]

On 2/1/2024 at 7:45 PM, White Linen said:

Nah,  Josh is going to get his

 

He's done enough to win one. Can't say the same about the rest of his team and coaches.

 

It took a while for Peyton Manning to get his but he did.

Edited February 3 by PromoTheRobot

[njbuff]

On 2/1/2024 at 9:36 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't need to watch it,  I knew they dropped the ball by not selecting Mahomes in 2017.    THAT team and THIS franchise passing on a QB in that draft was preposterous.  The excuse that they needed more than 4 months to evaluate a QB class() was the first of many ridiculous excuses made by McBeane.

 

The Mahomes hype in summer of 2017 was huge.....his lone start backed up the hype......and by the time he went off in the opener of the 2018 season I could already envision our new young QB perennially being 2 steps behind even if he turned out to be as great as his athletic ceiling.

 

The reason I thought that far ahead was because the Chiefs had been eating the Bills lunch since Reid arrived.    They dealt some critical blows to the playoff hopes of Marrone and Rex teams that were about equally talented.   They outmaneuvered the Bills for Alex Smith.    They were a problem and as big a rival to me as anyone outside of NE.   But for most Bills fans they were just another team on the schedule.    I was very irritated to hand them a QB........with a below market value trade no less........when we were so desperate for our own QB.

 

When Allen was just playing like a wild man with mixed results in 2018 and Mahomes was being the most prolific passing first year QB I was already figuring "best case" scenario was that Allen could be Jim Kelly to Mahomes' Dan Marino.   Marino had excellent individual and team success at the beginning but 5-6 years in Kelly started winning the majority of their matchups because of a better roster and the Bills team surpassed Miami.

 

Allen held up his part of the bargain by improving quickly............Beane just proved to be to much of a work in progress as a GM and never was able to out-personnel the Chiefs.

 

As I've said before though.........it was wishful thinking that the Bills organization could go from decades of dysfunction and terrible stewardship and suddenly hit on the perfect GM and HC and QB combination all at once.     I like Beane and think he could actually eventually live up to the BS "wizard" hype he got early on.........but it's entirely possible that his best work won't line up perfect with the prime of JA17.    

 

The lesson is that sometimes the initial moves a regime makes can be the most impactful.

 

In 2018, Allen pulled off the impossible as a rookie.

 

He didn’t have a losing record in games he started and finished with one of the worst offensive rosters in history. 
 

A very solid feat for a supposedly “erratic” rookie QB.

[machine gun kelly]

On 2/1/2024 at 7:41 PM, JPL7 said:

Synopsis : “Josh Allen is one of the most talented, prolific, and high-profile players at the quarterback position, let alone in the NFL, yet for years the Super Bowl aspirations of the Buffalo Bills are dashed upon the rocks of Patrick Mahomes in the playoffs. The window is closing…”

The window is not even remotely closing.  Allen is what 27.  He has 10 more years.

[wppete]

On 2/1/2024 at 9:05 PM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

The window is not closing. 

This is a crucial draft and free agency. Beane has to get it right 

[phypon]

Josh will get one eventually, hopefully with the Bills.  With this coaching staff they are not set up for a dynasty.  With JA we should get one in the next few years when the stars align and injuries aren't a factor.  The organization is not setup to be a KC or NE dynasty.  More like the Steelers or Broncos with Elway.  You get one or two, but not making history as a dynasty.  It's too bad really, JA could do it.  It is what it is though.

[LABILLBACKER]

26 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

He's done enough to win one. Can't say the same about the rest of his team and coaches.

 

It took a while for Peyton Manning to get his but he did.

So exhausted watching his coaches and teammates let him down every year. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

17 hours ago, Capco said:

The way I've always liked to phrase it is that Mahomes is the better QB, but Allen is the better football player.

Yep and more fun to watch, to boot. Would love to see Mahomes try to truck a Dlineman the way Allen breezes  through 

[BADOLBILZ]

49 minutes ago, njbuff said:

In 2018, Allen pulled off the impossible as a rookie.

 

He didn’t have a losing record in games he started and finished with one of the worst offensive rosters in history. 
 

A very solid feat for a supposedly “erratic” rookie QB.

 

I'm not really sure what any of that even has to do with anything I said.

 

 Josh transformed from an inaccurate, bottom 3rd of league QB as a rookie........to a middle of pack QB in year 2 and became a top 5 QB in year 3........which is excellent progress considering how raw he was and I acknowledged that. 

 

But Allen didn't pull off anything impossible as a rookie........he was entertaining to watch but there wasn't any "all he does is win" aspect.   And getting knocked out of a game while losing doesn't make it not a loss,  which is why he had a losing record.    The 2018 offense was terrible but they had the second ranked defense in the league in 2018 which kept them in games as well.

 

By contrast,  eventual washout-journeyman Trent Edwards was 5-4 as a Bills rookie with a terrible offensive team and OC and lesser defense.    Sometimes young QB's show promise and win some games as a rookie.   There isn't anything "impossible" about it.

 

And Mahomes was a first time starter in 2018 too and threw 50 TD with over 5,000 yards and lead his team to the #1 seed..........3 things Josh has yet to do in any of his 6 seasons.  

 

So Allen isn't that unlucky........he's a great player.........but Mahomes has just been a BETTER player.

 

Hopefully the Bills and Allen can change that dynamic at some point.

 

 

 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I'm not really sure what any of that even has to do with anything I said.

 

 Josh transformed from an inaccurate, bottom 3rd of league QB as a rookie........to a middle of pack QB in year 2 and became a top 5 QB in year 3........which is excellent progress considering how raw he was and I acknowledged that. 

 

But Allen didn't pull off anything impossible as a rookie........he was entertaining to watch but there wasn't any "all he does is win" aspect.   And getting knocked out of a game while losing doesn't make it not a loss,  which is why he had a losing record.    The 2018 offense was terrible but they had the second ranked defense in the league in 2018 which kept them in games as well.

 

By contrast,  eventual washout-journeyman Trent Edwards was 5-4 as a Bills rookie with a terrible offensive team and OC and lesser defense.    Sometimes young QB's show promise and win some games as a rookie.   There isn't anything "impossible" about it.

 

And Mahomes was a first time starter in 2018 too and threw 50 TD with over 5,000 yards and lead his team to the #1 seed..........3 things Josh has yet to do in any of his 6 seasons.  

 

So Allen isn't that unlucky........he's a great player.........but Mahomes has just been a BETTER player.

 

Hopefully the Bills and Allen can change that dynamic at some point.

 

 

 

If they had drafted a qb that year it’d probably be Watson. He was the more ‘ready’ qb. I don’t think this coaching staff had the foresight for someone like Mahomes.

[Matt_In_NH]

Maybe he should have titled it "The Fifth Fall of Buffalo"?

[Billsturfwars]

I just finished this and looked to the forum to see if this had been posted. Really well done IMO.