So we're moving on from Harbaugh right?

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

I absolutely agree... How about the rest of the roster though?

 

Does Harbaugh bear no blame for repeated failures in the playoffs? They ran the ball 6 times with rbs today!

 

Definitely fair to criticize their unwillingness to run the ball. But it is just hard to win a playoff game against a championship contender when your QB plays as poorly as Lamar Jackson did today. Having a drive end on a fumble at the goal line and the next offensive possession start at their own 1 is also as big a momentum swing as an offense can have.

 

Meanwhile the Ravens defense gave up 4.6 yards per play... That's a great defensive performance against the Chiefs, giving up less efficiency than their season average even though the Chiefs were not making any mistakes on offense. The Chiefs were shut out in the 2nd half. That's a fantastic coaching result.

 

There's just no comparison between McDermott and Harbaugh. McDermott has now watched his QB have two all-time great playoff runs, and both ended in the divisional round because of his own defense. Harbaugh has not had anything close to that. Getting his team to the #1 seed in a brutal division and keeping them in the game against an elite opponent even while his QB was giving the game away, those are extremely impressive feats.

[QLBillsFan]

16 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Would Sean McDermott have purposely had his player take a penalty at the end of the game when it was first and five, in order to re set the downs and allow his two time outs left to be used to it's fullest extent?

 

The answer is no 

 

Harbaugh is the best coach in the NFL currently 

But said player foolishly got a 15 yard penalty.. and this coach refused to run the ball after the bills jammed it on KC with 39 runs vs 16. So actually no, he’s not currently the best coach in the NFL. With a healthy D and the supposed MVP of the league at QB that was a disastrous game plan.. poorly executed by the players with multiple bad emotional responses. 

[section122]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Definitely fair to criticize their unwillingness to run the ball. But it is just hard to win a playoff game against a championship contender when your QB plays as poorly as Lamar Jackson did today. Having a drive end on a fumble at the goal line and the next offensive possession start at their own 1 is also as big a momentum swing as an offense can have.

 

Meanwhile the Ravens defense gave up 4.6 yards per play... That's a great defensive performance against the Chiefs, giving up less efficiency than their season average even though the Chiefs were not making any mistakes on offense. The Chiefs were shut out in the 2nd half. That's a fantastic coaching result.

 

There's just no comparison between McDermott and Harbaugh. McDermott has now watched his QB have two all-time great playoff runs, and both ended in the divisional round because of his own defense. Harbaugh has not had anything close to that. Getting his team to the #1 seed in a brutal division and keeping them in the game against an elite opponent even while his QB was giving the game away, those are extremely impressive feats.

 

To your 2nd paragraph the ravens had an amazing defense all year long, not the patchwork mash unit that McD trotted out against the Chiefs.  It not fair to give one team roquan smith and patrick queen and the other tyrel dodson and aj klein and expect the same results.

 

To your last paragraph, the Bills keep losing to the chiefs.  They arent losing to the ryan tannehil led titans or philip rivers on his last legs.  In fact people give mcd ***** for barely beating rivers and he won! 

 

At the end of the day the #1 seed lost at home by 10 with their full team.  The bills lost by 3 after a missed fg with an incredibly banged up team.  To my original point it is clear mcd and the bills have far outperformed harbaugh and the ravens.  Why doesn't he need to go too?

[QLBillsFan]

20 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

He has a defense that can hold the playoff chiefs to 17 though.  Josh would probably be undefeated against the chiefs if the bills defense could do that consistently.

The Bills D was decimated by injuries.. KC played super conservative with zero fear that Lamar could outscore them. The Ravens offensive game plan was by any measure a complete disaster. 

[section122]

23 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Would Sean McDermott have purposely had his player take a penalty at the end of the game when it was first and five, in order to re set the downs and allow his two time outs left to be used to it's fullest extent?

 

The answer is no 

 

Harbaugh is the best coach in the NFL currently 

 

I had to circle back to this.  It was first and five bc there were 12 men on the field!

 

Lets add in zay flowers and kyle vannoys terrible personal foul penalties.... I can only imagine the response on the board about how mcd doesnt teach discipline or accountability....

[CincyBillsFan]

11 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

He has a defense that can hold the playoff chiefs to 17 though.  Josh would probably be undefeated against the chiefs if the bills defense could do that consistently.

I've been checking in on some of those big time NFL talking heads and they seem awfully quiet about how poorly Jackson played today.  Did you know the Ravens lost because of penalties & a fumble into the end zone.  I can only imagine these same talking heads reactions if Allen played a game like the one Jackson did today.  Wait, I don't need an imagination here.  After last weeks game where Allen had 3 TD's and no TO's and played pretty damn well all I heard these people say is how Allen can't win the big games or beat Mahomes.  It's amazing the difference in tone from these "experts" between this week and last.

 

Here's the bottom line Allen is 5 - 5 with a defense that isn't even close to being as good as the Ravens has been.  Allen has 27 total TD's and only 6 TO's and has played great in half his playoff games.  Jackson is 2 - 4 with 9 total TD's and 9 TO's.

 

Allen's worst playoff game is better then Jackson's play in 5 of his 6 playoff games.

[boyst]

24 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I would categorize that as a very diplomatic, possibly even very generous description of Lamar Jackson.

It's a big onion to peel. Every layer will make you cry.

 

On the outside he is a talented football player who contributes to victories for his team

He has won an MVP and has earned a lot of respect

He has limited talent to understand offenses/schemes so he needs specific coaching not to make him feel bad

He is in a position with his team that he is among their best 3 players every year which lacks the premier talent to support him [debatable, see next]

High end players, specifically WR will not thrive or choose his team because of his erratic play and willynilly decisions to play backyard ball

His team is tied to him financially because finding a QB who could do half of what he does would be extremely difficult

He's always going to have them pretty good.

 

The team made a choice of Jackson over Huntley. I'd have franchised him. Put a contract up that's reworkable and perfect to trade. Traded him in a heartbeat. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I've been checking in on some of those big time NFL talking heads and they seem awfully quiet about how poorly Jackson played today.  Did you know the Ravens lost because of penalties & a fumble into the end zone.  I can only imagine these same talking heads reactions if Allen played a game like the one Jackson did today.  Wait, I don't need an imagination here.  After last weeks game where Allen had 3 TD's and no TO's and played pretty damn well all I heard these people say is how Allen can't win the big games or beat Mahomes.  It's amazing the difference in tone from these "experts" between this week and last.

 

Here's the bottom line Allen is 5 - 5 with a defense that isn't even close to being as good as the Ravens has been.  Allen has 27 total TD's and only 6 TO's and has played great in half his playoff games.  Jackson is 2 - 4 with 9 total TD's and 9 TO's.

 

Allen's worst playoff game is better then Jackson's play in 5 of his 6 playoff games.

Yea the josh turnover narrative has always intrigued me because he just doesn’t do it in the playoffs…I think he has one of the lowest interception % rates in playoff history.  Two of those 4 picks were 100% on the wide receivers and three of those six turnovers were in the same game that he won where the dolphins had to just send everybody all game 

 

romo gets mocked for calling him Mr January but he really isn’t wrong lol 

 

Lamar seems like he’s easy to know how to stop you just need the personnel to pull it off which most of the playoff teams have 

Edited January 29 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[section122]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

It's a big onion to peel. Every layer will make you cry.

 

On the outside he is a talented football player who contributes to victories for his team

He has won an MVP and has earned a lot of respect

He has limited talent to understand offenses/schemes so he needs specific coaching not to make him feel bad

He is in a position with his team that he is among their best 3 players every year which lacks the premier talent to support him [debatable, see next]

High end players, specifically WR will not thrive or choose his team because of his erratic play and willynilly decisions to play backyard ball

His team is tied to him financially because finding a QB who could do half of what he does would be extremely difficult

He's always going to have them pretty good.

 

The team made a choice of Jackson over Huntley. I'd have franchised him. Put a contract up that's reworkable and perfect to trade. Traded him in a heartbeat. 

 

There were so many times today he should have run and decided to throw a short pass when running was the right call imo.  It's like he completely forgets what worked for him in the regular season.

[boyst]

Just now, section122 said:

 

There were so many times today he should have run and decided to throw a short pass when running was the right call imo.  It's like he completely forgets what worked for him in the regular season.

And this happens to Josh. The inverse in the season: don't run, just dump off. 

 

And post season: go throw low % throws, in season it's check down and pray. 

[section122]

9 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I've been checking in on some of those big time NFL talking heads and they seem awfully quiet about how poorly Jackson played today.  Did you know the Ravens lost because of penalties & a fumble into the end zone.  I can only imagine these same talking heads reactions if Allen played a game like the one Jackson did today.  Wait, I don't need an imagination here.  After last weeks game where Allen had 3 TD's and no TO's and played pretty damn well all I heard these people say is how Allen can't win the big games or beat Mahomes.  It's amazing the difference in tone from these "experts" between this week and last.

 

Here's the bottom line Allen is 5 - 5 with a defense that isn't even close to being as good as the Ravens has been.  Allen has 27 total TD's and only 6 TO's and has played great in half his playoff games.  Jackson is 2 - 4 with 9 total TD's and 9 TO's.

 

Allen's worst playoff game is better then Jackson's play in 5 of his 6 playoff games.

 

Jackson is gonna take a ton of heat for this one.  Deservedly so.  However the strength of the ravens is running and the weakness of the chiefs is run defense.  The gameplan did not help lamar at all today.

[Simon]

Just now, section122 said:

The gameplan did not help lamar at all today.

 

I don't know how many times I shook my head at the TV today trying to figure out exactly what the hell they were thinking on offense. 

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

To your 2nd paragraph the ravens had an amazing defense all year long, not the patchwork mash unit that McD trotted out against the Chiefs.  It not fair to give one team roquan smith and patrick queen and the other tyrel dodson and aj klein and expect the same results.

 

To your last paragraph, the Bills keep losing to the chiefs.  They arent losing to the ryan tannehil led titans or philip rivers on his last legs.  In fact people give mcd ***** for barely beating rivers and he won! 

 

At the end of the day the #1 seed lost at home by 10 with their full team.  The bills lost by 3 after a missed fg with an incredibly banged up team.  To my original point it is clear mcd and the bills have far outperformed harbaugh and the ravens.  Why doesn't he need to go too?

 

In three playoff games against the Chiefs we have given up 7.4 YPP, 7.6 YPP, and now 8.5 YPP. In those years the Chiefs offense averaged 6.3 YPP, 5.9 YPP, and 5.5 YPP, which means each of those results was well below expectations.

 

So it is not just a problem from this year, and I'm actually kind of sick of people using injuries from this year to hand wave away multiple abysmal playoff performances from our defense under McDermott. McDermott has never found a way to even slow down the Chiefs when it counts.

 

I don't agree with your statement that McDermott has out performed Harbaugh in the playoffs. I believe Josh Allen has vastly out performed Jackson (and Huntley) in the playoffs. I believe that Harbaugh in his first shot at the Chiefs in the playoffs did a substantially better job than McDermott has ever done against the Chiefs in the playoffs.

 

Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen have now reached the AFCCG the same number of times since entering the league together in 2018. Considering the wide gap between them as players, it is sensible to think that a gap between the head coaches is probably at least somewhat to blame for that result.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Yea the josh turnover narrative has always intrigued me because he just doesn’t do it in the playoffs…I think he has one of the lowest interception % rates in playoff history.  Two of those 4 picks were 100% on the wide receivers and three of those six turnovers were in the same game that he won where the dolphins had to just send everybody all game 

 

romo gets mocked for calling him Mr January but he really isn’t wrong lol 

Most of the national talking head "experts" on Fox, NBC, ABC, CBS & ESPN are football morons.  It's amazing how dumb they are.  At least Cowherd brings a lot of very knowledgeable football guys (like Cosell) on his show that provide excellent insight into players and games. 

 

But what really gets me is how the majority of the big time talking heads go after Allen and push a false narrative about his play.  They just don't like Allen and I think a lot of it stems from their bad takes on him coming out of college and during his rookie season.  It's like they blame Allen for not having he decency to suck so that their  horrible takes would have been true.

 

 

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

There were so many times today he should have run and decided to throw a short pass when running was the right call imo.  It's like he completely forgets what worked for him in the regular season.

I feel like he’s overrated as a scrambler even which was a big eye opener for me today…he’s like that rb that dances around trying to turn every carry into a home run ball which cost them a lot of crucial yards

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Jackson is gonna take a ton of heat for this one.  Deservedly so.  However the strength of the ravens is running and the weakness of the chiefs is run defense.  The gameplan did not help lamar at all today.

He'll take local heat because local fans actually know more about their teams then the national talking heads.  But so far Jackson seems to be taking less heat from the national guys then Allen was taking immediately after last weeks loss.  Maybe that will change tomorrow but I bet it doesn't.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I don't know how many times I shook my head at the TV today trying to figure out exactly what the hell they were thinking on offense. 

I think kc not even worrying about spying Lamar completely broke them lol 

[Zag20]

46 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Would Sean McDermott have purposely had his player take a penalty at the end of the game when it was first and five, in order to re set the downs and allow his two time outs left to be used to it's fullest extent?

 

The answer is no 

 

Harbaugh is the best coach in the NFL currently 

Them calling that a personal foul was odd wasn’t it

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

In three playoff games against the Chiefs we have given up 7.4 YPP, 7.6 YPP, and now 8.5 YPP. In those years the Chiefs offense averaged 6.3 YPP, 5.9 YPP, and 5.5 YPP, which means each of those results was well below expectations.

 

So it is not just a problem from this year, and I'm actually kind of sick of people using injuries from this year to hand wave away multiple abysmal playoff performances from our defense under McDermott. McDermott has never found a way to even slow down the Chiefs when it counts.

 

I don't agree with your statement that McDermott has out performed Harbaugh in the playoffs. I believe Josh Allen has vastly out performed Jackson (and Huntley) in the playoffs. I believe that Harbaugh in his first shot at the Chiefs in the playoffs did a substantially better job than McDermott has ever done against the Chiefs in the playoffs.

 

Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen have now reached the AFCCG the same number of times since entering the league together in 2018. Considering the wide gap between them as players, it is sensible to think that a gap between the head coaches is probably at least somewhat to blame for that result.

I think some of it comes down to how the chiefs beat our defense this year for me.  They just picked on aj klein all game long.  Gotta think if Milano or Bernard was in his place things are tougher for them. 
 

otherwise I’d probably agree more 

past games against them im less inclined to use the injury excuse.  Missing a whole bunch of starting linebackers is a lot bigger deal then missing Micah Hyde or tre white imo.

 

these teams are pretty much even now in talent and it shows…back in 2020 the chiefs were definitely a tier better 

 

[section122]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

In three playoff games against the Chiefs we have given up 7.4 YPP, 7.6 YPP, and now 8.5 YPP. In those years the Chiefs offense averaged 6.3 YPP, 5.9 YPP, and 5.5 YPP, which means each of those results was well below expectations.

 

So it is not just a problem from this year, and I'm actually kind of sick of people using injuries from this year to hand wave away multiple abysmal playoff performances from our defense under McDermott. McDermott has never found a way to even slow down the Chiefs when it counts.

 

I don't agree with your statement that McDermott has out performed Harbaugh in the playoffs. I believe Josh Allen has vastly out performed Jackson (and Huntley) in the playoffs. I believe that Harbaugh in his first shot at the Chiefs in the playoffs did a substantially better job than McDermott has ever done against the Chiefs in the playoffs.

 

Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen have now reached the AFCCG the same number of times since entering the league together in 2018. Considering the wide gap between them as players, it is sensible to think that a gap between the head coaches is probably at least somewhat to blame for that result.

 

Its inarguable that the Bills have had better results and gone further than the Ravens.

 

Lamar Jackson has won 2 mvps to joshs none.  Do we really think lamar just forgets how to play football in the playoffs? Is the coach not responsible for setting him up to be succesful?

 

You are so focused on the qb you arent looking at the rest of the team.  The Ravens had 3 first team all pros this year the Bills had none.

 

The Ravens had a better team than the Bills this year and they lost to the chiefs just the same. 

 

The last time the Ravens had a better team than the Bills they lost their first playoff game 28-12 as the one seed to ryan tannehill!

 

The Ravens had the most rushing yards in the league and 3rd most by ypc.  Then they ran the ball 6 times with their rb! Isnt that on coaching?