So we're moving on from Harbaugh right?

[BillsfaninSB]

I would not fire Harbaugh.  He puts them in a position to be a contender just about every year.

 

He would have a job 2 seconds later.   Dallas would kill for him. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

13 minutes ago, section122 said:

Wondering if anyone's thoughts have changed? I started this thread as a sort of tongue in cheek thread to the McD haters last year but here we are again. 

 

Soon to be 3 time MVP, roster that had 6 All Pros, losses to the Raiders and Browns this season that cost them home field, ending with a loss to McD and the Bills. He also has a 4-7 playoff record since winning the super bowl 12 seasons ago.  

 

Some stats I happened across (in the last 10 years): https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3536495/its-time-to-admit-john-harbaugh-is-not-a-good-postseason-coach

 

--He's been one & done in the playoffs three times.

--He's made it to one conference title game, despite 4 seasons in the Top 10 in points, 5 seasons in the Top 10 in yards, 8 seasons in the Top 10 in points allowed, and 7 in the Top 10 in yards allowed. 

--He's had the No. 1 seed in the AFC twice, and is 1-2 in those playoffs.

 

Now I don't believe he should be fired as I think he is a very good coach but he routinely is ranked higher than McD by many on this site.  Just wondering about those who think McD should go and how they feel about Harbaugh.

I saw a Ravens fan reaction video today and his question was simple: What on Earth can we do from a roster perspective that leads to a different result?

 

They have a 2 time, likely 3 time MVP under center (leaving aside whether those are deserved). They have a HoF running back and an All Pro Fullback. They have a Pro Bowl WR1 and TE1s. They have 2 more All Pros on defense. If the coaching staff can't get to the Conference Finals with that roster, what else can they do? Ownership might decide that a decent HC is easier to find than another QB

 

 

[section122]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It is a murderer’s row.

 

Honestly, this game was gonna be a referendum on one of the two coaches and one of the two QB’s no matter what.

 

If Josh/McD lost, they were gonna be 0-4 vs Mahomes/Lamar/Burrow in the last 4 years.

 

With Lamar/Harbaugh losing, they are 0-3 against Josh/Mahomes in the postseason.

 

It’s a hard hill to dig out of him. Hell, a good 80% of the mystique of Burrow/Taylor/Lou was that they have beat Josh and Mahomes in the postseason once each lol

 

Totally agree and it's an unfortunate side effect of the single elimination tournament.  So much has to go right in each game to reach and win the super bowl.  

 

I'll admit I was full on "I don't want to face the Bengals" then the season ends and they fired Lou lol.  Weirdly the Bengals get knocked less for missing the playoffs repeatedly than the Bills and Ravens do for losing in the playoffs.  Different sport but similar to Jordan's 6-0 in the Finals vs LeBron having lost so many times.

[Chaos]

On 1/28/2024 at 10:16 PM, Einstein said:

If I was a Ravens fan, I’d be about at my wits end with Harbaugh.

 

And Lamar.

 

But winning 1 ring does give you a super long leash.

Dan Quinn, Ron Rivera, Doug Pederson, and Dan Quinn all say hello. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

15 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said:

I would not fire Harbaugh.  He puts them in a position to be a contender just about every year.

 

He would have a job 2 seconds later.   Dallas would kill for him. 

At some point being ‘in the position’ but not doing anything with it has to mean something…it’s the same situation as mcd it’s a real difficult decision to tell where that point is.  Not sure where that point is myself but by all advanced metrics that ravens team was an absolute monster this year and they didn’t even come particularly close to a superbowl and continued their pretty dismal run against the chiefs and lost to the bills in the playoffs again.  It’s gotta not feel great in Baltimore right now 

 

Edited Monday at 08:35 PM by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Chaos]

12 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said:

I would not fire Harbaugh.  He puts them in a position to be a contender just about every year.

 

He would have a job 2 seconds later.   Dallas would kill for him. 

Harbaugh did a pretty weak job coaching yesterday.  And can't advance further than the divisional round with a supposed 3 time MVP.  At some point something has got to give. 

[BillsfaninSB]

2 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Totally agree and it's an unfortunate side effect of the single elimination tournament.  So much has to go right in each game to reach and win the super bowl.  

 

I'll admit I was full on "I don't want to face the Bengals" then the season ends and they fired Lou lol.  Weirdly the Bengals get knocked less for missing the playoffs repeatedly than the Bills and Ravens do for losing in the playoffs.  Different sport but similar to Jordan's 6-0 in the Finals vs LeBron having lost so many times.

Good point about the Bengals.   I do think Taylor will be fired for sure if they miss again or are 1 and done. 

[HappyDays]

25 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There is a very strong case to firing Harbaugh. 
 

you keep wondering but going 0fer against similar caliber QBs in the playoffs is kinda exactly why the argument to fire both of them was pretty consistent. 

 

What coaching errors are we pointing to from yesterday? Or in any of these playoff losses? The Ravens honestly should have controlled the game against because of a good gameplan and great 2nd half adjustments. But Harbaugh can't control for his QB and best pass catcher making multiple unforced errors.

[Chaos]

This shows were the types of fans who post on fan forums are:

[FireChans]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

What coaching errors are we pointing to from yesterday? Or in any of these playoff losses? The Ravens honestly should have controlled the game against because of a good gameplan and great 2nd half adjustments. But Harbaugh can't control for his QB and best pass catcher making multiple unforced errors.

Um I would call the Ravens offense being completely outcoached and out gameplanned  in the first half a coaching failure.

 

The Ravens in September had us down 21-10 in the third Q. We had the Ravens down 21-10 in the third Q. 
 

We took their lunch money in the first half. Just like they took ours in September.

 

Harbaugh has never beaten an MVP caliber QB in the postseason with a 3 time MVP at QB. 

[Gen2]

On 1/28/2024 at 10:16 PM, HappyDays said:

Allen >>>>> Jackson

 

End of thread.

 

I'm not sure that is 100% true. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I think with all things being equal Jackson is just as good as Allen. Where the difference (for me at least) becomes apparent is when a play breaks down, Jackson panics and has a tendency to make mistakes, whereas Allen has a tendency to more often than not make a play that breaks the opponent's back.

 

IMHO that is a function of the coaching staff preparing the team to always "expect the unexpected". The Bills always seem to instantly recognize when a play breaks down, and everyone immediately goes into "backyard mode".

 

The Ravens on the other hand go into panic mode and either try to force the play, or make some ill advised move.

[section122]

5 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I saw a Ravens fan reaction video today and his question was simple: What on Earth can we do from a roster perspective that leads to a different result?

 

They have a 2 time, likely 3 time MVP under center (leaving aside whether those are deserved). They have a HoF running back and an All Pro Fullback. They have a Pro Bowl WR1 and TE1s. They have 2 more All Pros on defense. If the coaching staff can't get to the Conference Finals with that roster, what else can they do? Ownership might decide that a decent HC is easier to find than another QB

 

 

 

To the bolded I think with so much luck involved you just have to make sure you have a good QB and a good coach.  As long as you have those 2 things, you just keep taking cracks at it.

 

There are some wild Super Bowl stats I pulled together a couple of years ago but the main one is this; there is only 1 active head coach with more than 1 super bowl win (Reid) and only McVay, Payton, Tomlin, Harbaugh, and McCarthy (if you count him) have any super bowl wins. So 5 or 6 active HCs have a super bowl win on their resume. It is a hard mountain to climb.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

What coaching errors are we pointing to from yesterday? Or in any of these playoff losses? The Ravens honestly should have controlled the game against because of a good gameplan and great 2nd half adjustments. But Harbaugh can't control for his QB and best pass catcher making multiple unforced errors.

Idk why we hold opposing coaches to a lower standard than our own when having these discussions.  The ravens were unprepared for the heavier stuff the bills ran on defense and Lamar was completely flustered early.  A full half of football just to get your team going is way too long in the later rounds of the playoffs and that’s exactly what would be getting said by everyone here about mcd had the results been reversed.

Edited Monday at 08:42 PM by Generic_Bills_Fan

[HappyDays]

23 minutes ago, section122 said:

I actually would be fine if the same people that wanted McD fired also thought Harbaugh should be fired but he is consistently ranked higher than McD by many on this board and I don't understand why.  If you use the same measuring stick, McD has had more success than him.

 

Harbaugh needs his QB to stop choking in these games. That's been their biggest problem over the years in getting over the hump. Look at the AFCCG last year, Baltimore shuts down KC's offense in the 2nd half but Lamar throws an inexplicable pass into triple coverage that is easily intercepted. If Allen was doing that kind of crap in playoff games the heat would be off McDermott somewhat, but since he instead consistently raises his play in the playoffs it actually raises the pressure on the coaching staff.

 

Also Harbaugh has the Super Bowl victory to lean on. I've said on here and I'll stand by it - if we get 1 Super Bowl win with McDermott, I will not even raise the idea of firing him ever again. For yesterday I give McDermott a lot of credit in managing the game well and I don't have any criticism for him today. And I won't argue for him to be fired this offseason no matter what happens next week. He's earned that by taking the team further than anybody expected.

[FireChans]

22 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said:

I would not fire Harbaugh.  He puts them in a position to be a contender just about every year.

 

He would have a job 2 seconds later.   Dallas would kill for him. 

The same would be said about McD tbh

[Charles Romes]

A total of 2 forced turnovers in the playoffs since 2018. 

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Um I would call the Ravens offense being completely outcoached and out gameplanned  in the first half a coaching failure.

 

Two awful plays by Lamar had nothing to do with the gameplan. They didn't punt once! Lamar has to stop choking in these games.

[Chaos]

23 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I saw a Ravens fan reaction video today and his question was simple: What on Earth can we do from a roster perspective that leads to a different result?

 

They have a 2 time, likely 3 time MVP under center (leaving aside whether those are deserved). They have a HoF running back and an All Pro Fullback. They have a Pro Bowl WR1 and TE1s. They have 2 more All Pros on defense. If the coaching staff can't get to the Conference Finals with that roster, what else can they do? Ownership might decide that a decent HC is easier to find than another QB

 

 

There is the alternative of  simply maintaining "regardless of the talent on the roster, as long as you are competetive every year, and reach the playoffs, all is good"

[FireChans]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Two awful plays by Lamar had nothing to do with the gameplan. They didn't punt once! Lamar has to stop choking in these games.

They couldn’t run the football! They thought we would roll over us in base nickel and McD and co played on the line of scrimmage and dared them to beat us over the top.

 

Part of it is Lamar choking. I don’t disagree.

 

I do disagree that the Ravens offensive gameplan in the first half was good. I thought it was bad. They could have PA’d us to death, but they got annihilated for not running in the postseason last year and did exactly what McD and co expected. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Swap QBs and the Ravens are multiple SB winners.

 

Harbaugh has won a SuperBowl. If Lee Evans doesn't drop a pass they make it to another SB. 

 

McDermott hasn't even won a Championship yet.  Someone said does Harbaugh bear any blame for repeated failures in the playoffs?  Well how does that not apply to McDermott as well?