2024 WR Draft Class

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Let’s check in again on the D Line situation after FA ….its going to have to be better than what it is now…

 

I see some people making excuses for Oliver wearing a cloak of invisibility in the Chiefs game because he had no DE help… so the Bills better have some plan to upgrade the position beyond not cutting Miller, and a third round pick,,,

 

He needs some help, both alongside him and behind him at 3T.

 

I was watching an interview with Joe Buscaglia who surmised that they used Oliver WAY too much and just ran him into the ground by not rotating him nearly as often as they should have by the end of the year. Mostly because the people behind him at 3T provided little to nothing on the field.

 

Combine that with Daquan Jones returning next to him from injury and not being nearly as effective, "playing on one arm" as he put it, and the pass rush from the Edge disappearing and that's what he says caused him to not be as productive by the end of the season.

[transplantbillsfan]

3 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Again, Corley looks great. He's a helluva Slot.

 

But he's a true Slot.

 

We have Slot's. But we need an Outside WR. Drafting Corley only removes Shakir or Kincaid from the field and leaves the hole vacated from Gabe Davis remaining on the Outside.

 

As high as Steve Smith was on him, even he said you can't expect to take him from his practically exclusive Slot usage in a small college and stick him Outside in the NFL.

 

Thomas Jr., Franklin, and Coleman are fits for us. Corley is not.

 

Is he really a true slot, though???

 

That WR looks like a dude!!!

 

Looks like Deebo in the way he plays. He trucks CBs consistently.

 

Google lists him at 5'11, 210 lbs with a 4.43 40 yard dash. We'll discover this all more in depth on Saturday, but if that's accurate, why is that a true slot? 

 

And frankly, if we drafted him, a lot of people thought Shakir could eventually replace Diggs. I think the modern NFL is moving beyond the traditional X, Z, and Y receiver, don't you? We have a new OC... maybe he really prefers 2 "slot" guys. Maybe even 3????

[BillsFanForever19]

10 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Is he really a true slot, though???

 

That WR looks like a dude!!!

 

Looks like Deebo in the way he plays. He trucks CBs consistently.

 

Google lists him at 5'11, 210 lbs with a 4.43 40 yard dash. We'll discover this all more in depth on Saturday, but if that's accurate, why is that a true slot? 

 

And frankly, if we drafted him, a lot of people thought Shakir could eventually replace Diggs. I think the modern NFL is moving beyond the traditional X, Z, and Y receiver, don't you? We have a new OC... maybe he really prefers 2 "slot" guys. Maybe even 3????

 

Because that's where he played in College. And that was against weak College competition. You don't take a guy who ran ~90% out of the slot at a smaller school and then expect him to play Outside in the NFL. Like I said, even Steve Smith who's his biggest supporter, said the same.

 

I mean, if you don't believe me, Google him. Everyone says the same thing. He's an NFL Slot. Even the idea of using him as a Tweener inside/outside guy is a projection.

 

And for that position, even if we're using multiples, we drafted a Slot WR in Round 1 last season in Dalton Kincaid. Khalil Shakir has also emerged as a star in the same position. 

 

We're not going to take on a 3rd Slot and leave us with just Diggs as a capable Outside WR. We saw what happened down the stretch when all we had was Diggs and a myriad of Slots (Shakir, Sherfield, Harty) that we tried to use on the Outside. We were nowhere. 

 

Shakir has become a star in the Slot. If the Bills felt he was better suited on the Outside, we'd have put him there and seen success when Davis went down. Shakir's success came from the middle of the field.

Edited March 1 by BillsFanForever19

[Aussie Joe]

21 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

He needs some help, both alongside him and behind him at 3T.

 

I was watching an interview with Joe Buscaglia who surmised that they used Oliver WAY too much and just ran him into the ground by not rotating him nearly as often as they should have by the end of the year. Mostly because the people behind him at 3T provided little to nothing on the field.

 

Combine that with Daquan Jones returning next to him from injury and not being nearly as effective, "playing on one arm" as he put it, and the pass rush from the Edge disappearing and that's what he says caused him to not be as productive by the end of the season.

It’s interesting though that Oliver had a great game against Pittsburgh the previous week  … playing with “one armed Jones “ and the rest of the DE .. if Joe B is correct , then the gas tank must have hit empty after that game …

I am agreeing with you he needs help in 2024 … it’s obvious considering they have 8 DL as free agents ..

 

Depending what happens in FA … they might even have to put  a Top 60 pick somewhere there .. A lot of people don’t seem to be up for that though ..

[BillsFanForever19]

42 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

It’s interesting though that Oliver had a great game against Pittsburgh the previous week  … playing with “one armed Jones “ and the rest of the DE .. if Joe B is correct , then the gas tank must have hit empty after that game …

I am agreeing with you he needs help in 2024 … it’s obvious considering they have 8 DL as free agents ..

 

Depending what happens in FA … they might even have to put  a Top 60 pick somewhere there .. A lot of people don’t seem to be up for that though ..

 

I think it really goes without saying that we'll be going DL by Round 2 (personally, preferably) at the latest.

 

Yes, we will be addressing DL in FA. But the idea that we'll cover 4 DT's and 2 DE's (at the minimum), including 1 starter at Edge, 1 starter at 1T, and both first men up in the rotation at 3T and 1T (both of which will get a significant amount of snaps), all in FA seems incredibly unlikely to me. Even if we were able to accomplish that unlikely feat somehow, we'd then probably have to address the Safety position in Round 2.

 

Outside WR opposite Diggs is the most important hole to cover. WR's of substance will cost too much to address in FA. So devoting Round 1 to that is a borderline necessity. But the idea that we'll go to WR again in Round 2 - when that player should be behind Diggs, Round 1 WR, Shakir, and Kincaid in touches to begin with - at the expense of players who will most likely start or at the very least will get far more reps, seems a message board driven fantasy, in my opinion. I'd be surprised if we even took another WR with our 3rd pick.

Edited March 1 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Is he really a true slot, though???

 

 

Yes. He is totally a pure slot. There is no way he can win outside consistently against NFL corners. Not only do I think 5'11 is slightly wishful thinking (let's see what the Combine measurement is) he has shorter arms and that more than anything else is a limiting factor for the outside. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

It’s interesting though that Oliver had a great game against Pittsburgh the previous week  … playing with “one armed Jones “ and the rest of the DE .. if Joe B is correct , then the gas tank must have hit empty after that game …

 

 

I don't buy the gas tank being empty stuff. Ed didn't play his best game against KC, which is unusual because actually he has generally been really good against them. His previous 5 games vs KC (regular season and playoffs) he has had 6 pressures, 4 knockdowns, 2 pass breakups, 1.5 sacks and 4 TFLs. He generally plays really well against them. The 13 second game he was unquestionably our best defender. Kansas City's interior oline is really good - that is definitely a fact and Kansas City's plan was largely to get the ball out early Mahomes time to throw was down on recent meetings vs the Bills - but Ed just didn't play his best game. I think he'd be the first to tell you that. 

[OldTimer1960]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Literally every single year some position on the defensive line will be a need. It is never a finished product. We need to just make it a point to finally give Allen a WR with true blue chip traits. There's really no excuse this year.

I hope things change in FA before the draft, but at present the DL depth chart is:

DT:     Ed Oliver, Eli Ankou

DE:     Greg Rousseau, Von Miller (who showed nothing last season) and Kingsley Jonathan

 

Again, right now, that would be the worst DL in the league.  At DT, I would not even want Ankou starting while a rookie learns.  DE is not much better - Rousseau is good when healthy, Miller will be 36 and is really just a hope that he can regain some decent form and I know Tasker says they like Jonathan, but he is really unproven.

 

I am not arguing not to take a WR in the 1st, but it seems possible to still get a decent X receiver in the 2nd, where DT and DE look less deep.

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

 

I am not arguing not to take a WR in the 1st, but it seems possible to still get a decent X receiver in the 2nd, where DT and DE look less deep.

 

I don't think DT is too bad depth wise and in any event the only guys you'd spend a first on are Newton and Murphy who are 3Techs that I don't think you are drafting that high to play 30-40% of the snaps behind and occasionally next to (on pure passing downs) Ed Oliver. Edge is worse. The class is not deep at all. But at the same time unless one of the top 3 guys drops to them at #28 (in which case they should pick them because they will almost certainly be the BPA) then I don't think there is a guy likely to make sense. Although as I've said before I imagine the Bills liking Chop Robinson. He just strikes me as their type. Athletic freak, 9.68 RAS....

[OldTimer1960]

56 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think DT is too bad depth wise and in any event the only guys you'd spend a first on are Newton and Murphy who are 3Techs that I don't think you are drafting that high to play 30-40% of the snaps behind and occasionally next to (on pure passing downs) Ed Oliver. Edge is worse. The class is not deep at all. But at the same time unless one of the top 3 guys drops to them at #28 (in which case they should pick them because they will almost certainly be the BPA) then I don't think there is a guy likely to make sense. Although as I've said before I imagine the Bills liking Chop Robinson. He just strikes me as their type. Athletic freak, 9.68 RAS....

I haven’t watched any of Chop Robinson’s game tape yet, but I was certainly impressed by his athletic performance last night at the Combine.  It’s not just his 40 time, he looked smooth and athletic in most every event and the guy is really built - he isn’t just an undersized fast guy.  It IS troubling that his sack production in college wasn’t higher, though.  I don’t know if I would take him because of his lesser production, but I think he will be picked in the first round - perhaps before the Bills pick anyway.

Edited March 1 by OldTimer1960

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I haven’t watched any of Chop Robinson’s game tape yet, but I was certainly impressed by his athletic performance last night at the Combine.  It’s not just his 40 time, he looked smooth and athletic in most every event and the guy is really built - he isn’t just an undersized fast guy.  It IS troubling that his sack production in college wasn’t higher, though.  I don’t know if I would take him because of his lesser production, but I think he will be picked in the first round - perhaps before the Bills pick anyway.

 

No I'd be leery too. I'm not saying he is what I'd do - he doesn't use his hands well enough for me and people who have engaged with me for years on this stuff know I really value hands for pass rushers. But I can imagine the Bills loving him. He feels like their type to me. They love these athletic freaks and while he is slightly undersized he is still big enough I think - and we know from Ed Oliver they are willing to overlook size for explosiveness. He is astronomically high ceiling even if I think his floor is pretty low. 

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I'd be leery too. I'm not saying he is what I'd do - he doesn't use his hands well enough for me and people who have engaged with me for years on this stuff know I really value hands for pass rushers. But I can imagine the Bills loving him. He feels like their type to me. They love these athletic freaks and while he is slightly undersized he is still big enough I think - and we know from Ed Oliver they are willing to overlook size for explosiveness. He is astronomically high ceiling even if I think his floor is pretty low. 

Lack of college production might scare them away as well. It should.
 

This just seems to be the year the wide receiver makes sense

[OldTimer1960]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I'd be leery too. I'm not saying he is what I'd do - he doesn't use his hands well enough for me and people who have engaged with me for years on this stuff know I really value hands for pass rushers. But I can imagine the Bills loving him. He feels like their type to me. They love these athletic freaks and while he is slightly undersized he is still big enough I think - and we know from Ed Oliver they are willing to overlook size for explosiveness. He is astronomically high ceiling even if I think his floor is pretty low. 

That is the exact description (high ceiling low floor) that I would avoid this year.  They really can’t afford a whif because they can’t cover it up with a vet FA.

[DCOrange]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes. He is totally a pure slot. There is no way he can win outside consistently against NFL corners. Not only do I think 5'11 is slightly wishful thinking (let's see what the Combine measurement is) he has shorter arms and that more than anything else is a limiting factor for the outside. 

And at least as far as short term impact goes, he almost literally didn't run routes in college so there would be a significant learning curve even if a team thinks he has the physical tools to play outside (which as you said, he probably doesn't). I think around 45% of his targets in his college career were screen passes and around 70-80% were targets under 9 yards down the field.

Edited March 1 by DCOrange

[Lagoon Blues]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I hope things change in FA before the draft, but at present the DL depth chart is:

DT:     Ed Oliver, Eli Ankou

DE:     Greg Rousseau, Von Miller (who showed nothing last season) and Kingsley Jonathan

 

Again, right now, that would be the worst DL in the league.  At DT, I would not even want Ankou starting while a rookie learns.  DE is not much better - Rousseau is good when healthy, Miller will be 36 and is really just a hope that he can regain some decent form and I know Tasker says they like Jonathan, but he is really unproven.

 

I am not arguing not to take a WR in the 1st, but it seems possible to still get a decent X receiver in the 2nd, where DT and DE look less deep.

Man Floyd was such an awesome signing...Chances are slim Beane can catch lightning in a bottle 2x in a row at that position but heres to hoping.

[SoCal Deek]

48 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I haven’t watched any of Chop Robinson’s game tape yet, but I was certainly impressed by his athletic performance last night at the Combine.  It’s not just his 40 time, he looked smooth and athletic in most every event and the guy is really built - he isn’t just an undersized fast guy.  It IS troubling that his sack production in college wasn’t higher, though.  I don’t know if I would take him because of his lesser production, but I think he will be picked in the first round - perhaps before the Bills pick anyway.

Every time I hear of a high ceiling low floor DE with little experience from Penn State it gives me Aaron Maybin flashbacks. And that ain’t a good thing. 😉

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

2 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I hope things change in FA before the draft, but at present the DL depth chart is:

DT:     Ed Oliver, Eli Ankou

DE:     Greg Rousseau, Von Miller (who showed nothing last season) and Kingsley Jonathan

 

Again, right now, that would be the worst DL in the league.  At DT, I would not even want Ankou starting while a rookie learns.  DE is not much better - Rousseau is good when healthy, Miller will be 36 and is really just a hope that he can regain some decent form and I know Tasker says they like Jonathan, but he is really unproven.

 

I am not arguing not to take a WR in the 1st, but it seems possible to still get a decent X receiver in the 2nd, where DT and DE look less deep.

first of all, I thought this is a WR thread. 

second, there are always veteran DTs sitting around even after FA and into the season every single year. 

[DCOrange]

I revisited Jalen McMillan in light of the fairly promising metrics and some hype from some of the Bills Twitter folks that are excited we met with him at the combine. Also watched film on Isaiah Williams and Jacob Cowing. I'm sticking to my guns on McMillan; I don't see anything particularly interesting personally. He seems like just a guy out there to me. I didn't hate his film the way I did Tez Walker and Xavier Worthy, but I have to give those guys higher grades because they at least have some tantalizing physical tools. McMillan just doesn't seem to offer anything exciting to me.

 

I ended up with a late 4th round grade on Isaiah Williams' film. He mostly lines up in the slot and he's pretty decent there. Ran some nice crossers, nice job of changing tempos in his routes to keep DBs off balance and he seems to be a guy that has the foot quickness and general athleticism to be a good separator but just doesn't sell his routes well enough for me. One thing I do like about him; he was a QB in high school and viewed as a 5 star athlete prospect. All the blue bloods wanted him on their teams but wanted him to play WR. He ended up going to Illinois for the opportunity to play QB and he stuck it out as a QB for a couple years. His first year playing WR, he led the team in receiving (granted it was only 500-600 yards). So while his breakout age is going to be a little high (but not alarmingly high), he's also just now learning the position and is pretty productive already. Combine the note about him having the athleticism to separate but not selling his routes well enough and the fact that he's new to the position, maybe there's some real hope he figures it out in the next few years and you end up with a steal on Day 3 as a result. He shined in the metrics too; on metrics alone he was graded as a late 1st round pick, bringing his overall grade up to a late 3rd.

 

Purely on the metrics, Jacob Cowing earned a late 2nd round grade, so I was fairly excited to check him out on film. I came away very impressed. At a listed 5'11" and 175 lbs, he's probably looking at a slot role and to be fair, that is where he played most of his snaps in college (around 70% of his snaps were in the slot). Having said that, he showed a good ability to beat press coverage despite his small build. PFF charted him as the best in the entire class in terms of getting open and I can definitely see where that could be the case. He does a great job of getting on top of the DB's toes and then getting them leaning or committing the wrong direction before he cuts away for easy separation. He particularly likes to use a hesitation move both at the LOS and at the route stem to freeze the DB and then accelerate away. I can very easily picture him thriving with the option routes we like to run on offense here. Beyond being tough to cover in man coverage, he shows a nice ability to squat down in the soft spots against zone defenses. The last positive for me, he has a strong motor. Unlike some of this year's class (both Texas WRs are probably the worst with this), Cowing plays hard even when he's not the primary read/even when he's the decoy. Arizona would run fake screens where the "blocker" slips downfield for a deep shot and Cowing did a nice job of selling himself as the screen guy. He runs hard when he's motioned across the formation for fake jet sweeps, he runs hard and leverages his DB to help open up parts of the field for his teammates, etc. All in all, I ended up with a late 1st round grade on his film, and factoring in the late 2nd round metrics grade, he ends up with a combined grade of a late 1st (barely). It seems like he's viewed as more of a 3rd rounder around the league, so between that and his likely role in the slot, I probably wouldn't take him at 28 personally, but he's definitely someone I would consider anywhere in the 2nd round. I have him as my WR7 in terms of film grade and WR5 in terms of combined grade.

[LEBills]

42 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Purely on the metrics, Jacob Cowing earned a late 2nd round grade, so I was fairly excited to check him out on film. I came away very impressed. At a listed 5'11" and 175 lbs, he's probably looking at a slot role and to be fair, that is where he played most of his snaps in college (around 70% of his snaps were in the slot). Having said that, he showed a good ability to beat press coverage despite his small build. PFF charted him as the best in the entire class in terms of getting open and I can definitely see where that could be the case. He does a great job of getting on top of the DB's toes and then getting them leaning or committing the wrong direction before he cuts away for easy separation. He particularly likes to use a hesitation move both at the LOS and at the route stem to freeze the DB and then accelerate away. I can very easily picture him thriving with the option routes we like to run on offense here. Beyond being tough to cover in man coverage, he shows a nice ability to squat down in the soft spots against zone defenses. The last positive for me, he has a strong motor. Unlike some of this year's class (both Texas WRs are probably the worst with this), Cowing plays hard even when he's not the primary read/even when he's the decoy. Arizona would run fake screens where the "blocker" slips downfield for a deep shot and Cowing did a nice job of selling himself as the screen guy. He runs hard when he's motioned across the formation for fake jet sweeps, he runs hard and leverages his DB to help open up parts of the field for his teammates, etc. All in all, I ended up with a late 1st round grade on his film, and factoring in the late 2nd round metrics grade, he ends up with a combined grade of a late 1st (barely). It seems like he's viewed as more of a 3rd rounder around the league, so between that and his likely role in the slot, I probably wouldn't take him at 28 personally, but he's definitely someone I would consider anywhere in the 2nd round. I have him as my WR7 in terms of film grade and WR5 in terms of combined grade.

Of the three you graded, I agree Cowing is the best. He did already weigh in at the Senior Bowl where he measure in at 5’8.5’’ and 165 pounds with sub 30 inch arms and a sub 70 inch wingspan. Even in the slot that is pretty small and I’m having a tough time thinking of a similar size player who has had a lot of success in the NFL recently. Imo Cowing is an early day 3 guy.

[GunnerBill]

56 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I revisited Jalen McMillan in light of the fairly promising metrics and some hype from some of the Bills Twitter folks that are excited we met with him at the combine. Also watched film on Isaiah Williams and Jacob Cowing. I'm sticking to my guns on McMillan; I don't see anything particularly interesting personally. He seems like just a guy out there to me. I didn't hate his film the way I did Tez Walker and Xavier Worthy, but I have to give those guys higher grades because they at least have some tantalizing physical tools. McMillan just doesn't seem to offer anything exciting to me.

 

I ended up with a late 4th round grade on Isaiah Williams' film. He mostly lines up in the slot and he's pretty decent there. Ran some nice crossers, nice job of changing tempos in his routes to keep DBs off balance and he seems to be a guy that has the foot quickness and general athleticism to be a good separator but just doesn't sell his routes well enough for me. One thing I do like about him; he was a QB in high school and viewed as a 5 star athlete prospect. All the blue bloods wanted him on their teams but wanted him to play WR. He ended up going to Illinois for the opportunity to play QB and he stuck it out as a QB for a couple years. His first year playing WR, he led the team in receiving (granted it was only 500-600 yards). So while his breakout age is going to be a little high (but not alarmingly high), he's also just now learning the position and is pretty productive already. Combine the note about him having the athleticism to separate but not selling his routes well enough and the fact that he's new to the position, maybe there's some real hope he figures it out in the next few years and you end up with a steal on Day 3 as a result. He shined in the metrics too; on metrics alone he was graded as a late 1st round pick, bringing his overall grade up to a late 3rd.

 

Purely on the metrics, Jacob Cowing earned a late 2nd round grade, so I was fairly excited to check him out on film. I came away very impressed. At a listed 5'11" and 175 lbs, he's probably looking at a slot role and to be fair, that is where he played most of his snaps in college (around 70% of his snaps were in the slot). Having said that, he showed a good ability to beat press coverage despite his small build. PFF charted him as the best in the entire class in terms of getting open and I can definitely see where that could be the case. He does a great job of getting on top of the DB's toes and then getting them leaning or committing the wrong direction before he cuts away for easy separation. He particularly likes to use a hesitation move both at the LOS and at the route stem to freeze the DB and then accelerate away. I can very easily picture him thriving with the option routes we like to run on offense here. Beyond being tough to cover in man coverage, he shows a nice ability to squat down in the soft spots against zone defenses. The last positive for me, he has a strong motor. Unlike some of this year's class (both Texas WRs are probably the worst with this), Cowing plays hard even when he's not the primary read/even when he's the decoy. Arizona would run fake screens where the "blocker" slips downfield for a deep shot and Cowing did a nice job of selling himself as the screen guy. He runs hard when he's motioned across the formation for fake jet sweeps, he runs hard and leverages his DB to help open up parts of the field for his teammates, etc. All in all, I ended up with a late 1st round grade on his film, and factoring in the late 2nd round metrics grade, he ends up with a combined grade of a late 1st (barely). It seems like he's viewed as more of a 3rd rounder around the league, so between that and his likely role in the slot, I probably wouldn't take him at 28 personally, but he's definitely someone I would consider anywhere in the 2nd round. I have him as my WR7 in terms of film grade and WR5 in terms of combined grade.

 

I like Cowling. I tend to have a lower ceiling for slots but I like him. 3rd round grade for me. Williams..... I was excited to see in the Shrine Game.... but he was really disappointing and I have gone back to his tape since and I do not see it at all. Doesn't run proper routes. Don't see a ton of separation. I think he will catch on somewhere and he will have a couple of 200-300 yars seasons in the NFL. But not sure he will be a lot better than that.

Edited March 1 by GunnerBill