2024 WR Draft Class

[mrags]

16 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

THAT’S the spirit!    😂 

You saying you have higher hopes? Shame 

[Augie]

23 minutes ago, mrags said:

You saying you have higher hopes? Shame 

 

I am hopelessly hopeful, that started as a teen around closing time. 

 

😋

 

 

.

Edited February 19 by Augie

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, mrags said:

2. Screw the other holes. 

 

This is exactly what I've been talking about about with some of you posters swinging the pendulum way too far in the other direction.

 

You cannot say "screw it - put anyone back there". A spot here or there, okay. We can cover up for it. But we need:

 

Starting DE 

Starting DT

Starting SS

Starting FS

#3 DT (Rotationally gets a LARGE snap count)

 

And that's not counting needing 2 other DE's, 2 other DT's, a LB, and another Safety. The odds that we'll be able to fill all 5 of those major holes in FA with amount of cap space we have is slim.

 

There are less than 1 Round worth of players who are considered a starter in every Draft. By putting out a 2nd and 3rd Round Pick and expecting them to start - you ARE allocating minimum assets to the Defense already. Guys available in Round 3 and especially after are there because they aren't Starters in Year 1.

 

In allocating our 1st Round to our most important hole and then doubling back in later rounds to provide insurance, we ARE focusing and favoring that over Defense.

 

2 hours ago, mrags said:

The argument about other positions is a joke imo. They’ve thrown countless draft picks, and FA money at positions on defense. None of it has panned out. 

 

You sound like you're saying "hey, 3-4 years ago we focused too much on Defense and it didn't get us over the top. So now we need to neglect there and focus on Offense completely".

 

That glosses over the fact that what you're upset about us doing and not working - many of them are gone already or will be gone this offseason. You can't say "oh well, that didn't work, so now that those guys need to be replaced, replace them with anybody. It doesn't matter"

 

Rather than replace them with 1st Round picks or high priced contracts, like I said, I am advocating waiting until Day 2 and getting bargain guys. I am advocating putting our highest asset and another pick into WR. But to say we allocate even less than 2nd Day picks and bargain FA's on the Defense is insane.

 

And as for the notion that we spend all of our assets on Defense and completely neglect the Offense - even that logic is flawed. This year we'll spend our 1st on a Starting WR. Even if we spend our 2nd on a Starting player on Defense, that would put the score at 4-2 in favor of Offense over the past 3 Drafts in Rounds 1 and 2:

 

2024 - 1st Round WR, 2nd Round Defensive Player

 

2023 - Dalton Kincaid (TE Round 1), O'Cyrus Torrence (OG Round 2)

 

2022 - Kaiir Elam (CB Round 1), James Cook (RB Round 2)

 

That's 2 1sts on Offense to 1 on Defense. 2 2nds on Offense to 1 on Defense.

 

I'm sure you'll say "But Von Miler!". Yes, we spent a lot on Von Miller. We typically do 1 splash move every few years or so. What was our last splash move before Von Miller? Stefon Diggs on Offense.

 

2 hours ago, mrags said:

They continue to get outscored by Mahomes and that’s all that matters. It’s not on Josh because he can’t keep up offensively. It’s because no matter what we do on defense we still can’t stop them when it matters. 

 

We saw what happened when we put up a mash unit against Mahomes. The idea that we can afford to put less out there than what we have already and it won't matter is really basic thinking.

 

The reality is that if we say "screw the holes" on Defense and put out even less talent, he's going to light us up even more. So great, Josh has more help. But guess what? Now he'll have to put up even more points to stay with him and even more points still to get ahead of him.

 

There's also this logic that KC wins just because they have Mahomes and Kelce and Defense doesn't matter in this league. This year we saw more than ever that they also field a very good Defense with All Pro players that keep him in the game to make those game winning drives.

 

Without Jones, McDuffie, Snead, Gay, and Karlaftis - KC wouldn't have hoisted the Lombardi this year. If you think us loading up on Offense and then downgrading our Defense even more than we will be already is going to take us over the top of their complete team - I've got a bridge to sell you. We have to do both, which is what I'm advocating for.

 

Sooooo.....

 

TL;DR - You can allocate Round 1 into WR and pick up another on Day 3 AND field a competent Defense by allocating Day 2 Picks there at the same time. And with the state of the Roster and our cap situation, we really don't have a choice. The idea that Beane will say "screw the holes" and that needing Starters on Defense is "a joke" is the real joke here.

Edited February 20 by BillsFanForever19

[mrags]

39 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

This is exactly what I've been talking about about with some of you posters swinging the pendulum way too far in the other direction.

 

You cannot say "screw it - put anyone back there". A spot here or there, okay. We can cover up for it. But we need:

 

Starting DE 

Starting DT

Starting SS

Starting FS

#3 DT (Rotationally gets a LARGE snap count)

 

And that's not counting needing 2 other DE's, 2 other DT's, a LB, and another Safety. The odds that we'll be able to fill all 5 of those major holes in FA with amount of cap space we have is slim.

 

There are less than 1 Round worth of players who are considered a starter in every Draft. By putting out a 2nd and 3rd Round Pick and expecting them to start - you ARE allocating minimum assets to the Defense already. Guys available in Round 3 and especially after are there because they aren't Starters in Year 1.

 

In allocating our 1st Round to our most important hole and then doubling back in later rounds to provide insurance, we ARE focusing and favoring that over Defense.

 

 

You sound like you're saying "hey, 3-4 years ago we focused too much on Defense and it didn't get us over the top. So now we need to neglect there and focus on Offense completely".

 

That glosses over the fact that what you're upset about us doing and not working - many of them are gone already or will be gone this offseason. You can't say "oh well, that didn't work, so now that those guys need to be replaced, replace them with anybody. It doesn't matter"

 

Rather than replace them with 1st Round picks or high priced contracts, like I said, I am advocating waiting until Day 2 and getting bargain guys. I am advocating putting our highest asset and another pick into WR. But to say we allocate even less than 2nd Day picks and bargain FA's on the Defense is insane.

 

And as for the notion that we spend all of our assets on Defense and completely neglect the Offense - even that logic is flawed. This year we'll spend our 1st on a Starting WR. Even if we spend our 2nd on a Starting player on Defense, that would put the score at 4-2 in favor of Offense over the past 3 Drafts in Rounds 1 and 2:

 

2024 - 1st Round WR, 2nd Round Defensive Player

 

2023 - Dalton Kincaid (TE Round 1), O'Cyrus Torrence (OG Round 2)

 

2022 - Kaiir Elam (CB Round 1), James Cook (RB Round 2)

 

That's 2 1sts on Offense to 1 on Defense. 2 2nds on Offense to 1 on Defense.

 

I'm sure you'll say "But Von Miler!". Yes, we spent a lot on Von Miller. We typically do 1 splash move every few years or so. What was our last splash move before Von Miller? Stefon Diggs on Offense.

 

 

We saw what happened when we put up a mash unit against Mahomes. The idea that we can afford to put less out there than what we have already and it won't matter is really basic thinking.

 

The reality is that if we say "screw the holes" on Defense and put out even less talent, he's going to light us up even more. So great, Josh has more help. But guess what? Now he'll have to put up even more points to stay with him and even more points still to get ahead of him.

 

There's also this logic that KC wins just because they have Mahomes and Kelce and Defense doesn't matter in this league. This year we saw more than ever that they also field a very good Defense with All Pro players that keep him in the game to make those game winning drives.

 

Without Jones, McDuffie, Snead, Gay, and Karlaftis - KC wouldn't have hoisted the Lombardi this year. If you think us loading up on Offense and then downgrading our Defense even more than we will be already is going to take us over the top of their complete team - I've got a bridge to sell you. We have to do both, which is what I'm advocating for.

 

Sooooo.....

 

TL;DR - You can allocate Round 1 into WR and pick up another AND field a competent Defense at the same time. And with the state of the Roster and our cao situation, we really don't have a choice. The idea that Beane will say "screw the holes" and that needing Starters on Defense is "a joke" is the real joke.

If you managed to look at all the mocks I’ve posted you will see that I’m actually pretty defense friendly. But that doesn’t mean we neglect the offense because of it. For everything you said, and it makes perfect sense, not arguing with that. It all means nothing because even with a top notch Defense in 2020 and 2021 we still couldn’t stop them. And then we couldn’t this year. And we couldn’t stop the Bengals last year either. The offense is suffering, specifically at the WR position and it cannot continue to be neglected. We’re just about at a head with the Diggs situation at this point. And we have an out next year if we don’t renegotiate his contract, AGAIN. But in order to take advantage of it (and btw I’m not saying we should) we need to have weapons in place. Can’t do that with just 1 WR. And that doesn’t meant anything anyway if the WR we draft sucks. Again, need to have insurance. Maybe that’s in rd 3. 4. 5. It doesn’t matter, but we need more than 1. But if a guy of Worthy’s upside is there in rd 2 and you didn’t expect it, even after drafting a guy in rd 1 you get him. Worry about the defense after that. 

[Warriorspikes51]

 

 

 

[Warriorspikes51]

 

[BillsFanForever19]

28 minutes ago, mrags said:

If you managed to look at all the mocks I’ve posted you will see that I’m actually pretty defense friendly. But that doesn’t mean we neglect the offense because of it. For everything you said, and it makes perfect sense, not arguing with that. It all means nothing because even with a top notch Defense in 2020 and 2021 we still couldn’t stop them. And then we couldn’t this year. And we couldn’t stop the Bengals last year either. The offense is suffering, specifically at the WR position and it cannot continue to be neglected. We’re just about at a head with the Diggs situation at this point. And we have an out next year if we don’t renegotiate his contract, AGAIN. But in order to take advantage of it (and btw I’m not saying we should) we need to have weapons in place. Can’t do that with just 1 WR. And that doesn’t meant anything anyway if the WR we draft sucks. Again, need to have insurance. Maybe that’s in rd 3. 4. 5. It doesn’t matter, but we need more than 1. But if a guy of Worthy’s upside is there in rd 2 and you didn’t expect it, even after drafting a guy in rd 1 you get him. Worry about the defense after that. 

 

We don't have to replace Diggs this year.

 

You take a mid rounder and hope it hits with a year of development in conjunction with your 1st. Also Justin Shorter, who will have a red shirt year and a 1st year of development. One of those guys could be his replacement without giving up 60.

 

And if neither looks like a Starter in Year 2, then you Draft another guy or sign someone - as 2025's cap is actually 25m in the green ATM.

 

You also don't want to count Diggs completely out at this point. What if having an ACTUAL WR opposite him takes away some coverage and he has his best season ever? 

 

Then we've spent a 2nd Round Pick on a guy for a role that doesn't even exist for another year at least.

 

And with Worthy, again, I don't see a full time Outside guy. He's, at best, a jack of all trades gadget type that you have to be creative with. He's not replacing Diggs full time on the Outside IMO.

 

And with Khalil Shakir and Dalton Kincaid (a TE as much as Von Miller's a LB), we have not one, but two top end Slots on the roster for the next 2 years at least. 

 

Get the most important thing we need this year. Which is a true Outside WR with our highest pick. But like it or not, we don't have a choice but to address the MASSIVE amount of holes we have Defensively with Draft picks. And we can't afford to wait until Round 3 at the earliest for multiple guys we'll need to start.

 

You can't be in a situation where you're starting 4th Rounders. Even starting 3rd Rounders is a scary proposition.

 

Then you can come back to WR in Round 4, or maybe even package a 4th and a 5th to get into the bottom of Round 3. But Round 1 AND Round 2 is out. Y'all can mock it to your hearts content and argue why it should be done. It's not going to happen. Especially when you consider it's likely we'll have to trade up at least a couple picks to secure the guy we want in Round 1.

Edited February 20 by BillsFanForever19

[mrags]

5 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

We don't have to replace Diggs this year.

 

You take a mid rounder and hope it hits with a year of development in conjunction with your 1st. Also Justin Shorter, who will have a red shirt year and a 1st year of development. One of those guys could be his replacement without giving up 60.

 

And if neither looks like a Starter in Year 2, then you Draft another guy or sign someone - as 2025's cap is actually 25m in the green ATM.

 

You also don't want to count Diggs completely out at this point. What if having an ACTUAL WR opposite him takes away some coverage and he has his best season ever? 

 

Then we've spent a 2nd Round Pick on a guy for a role that doesn't even exist for another year at least.

 

And with Worthy, again, I don't see a full time Outside guy. He's, at best, a jack of all trades gadget type that you have to be creative with. He's not replacing Diggs full time on the Outside IMO.

 

And with Khalil Shakir and Dalton Kincaid (a TE as much as Von Miller's a LB), we have not one, but two top end Slots on the roster for the next 2 years at least. 

 

Get the most important thing we need this year. Which is a true Outside WR with our highest pick. But like it or not, we don't have a choice but to address the MASSIVE amount of holes we have Defensively with Draft picks. And we can't afford to wait until Round 3 at the earliest for multiple guys we'll need to start.

 

You can't be in a situation where you're starting 4th Rounders. Even starting 3rd Rounders is a scary proposition.

 

Then you can come back to WR in Round 4, or maybe even package a 4th and a 5th to get into the bottom of Round 3. But Round 1 AND Round 2 is out. Y'all can mock it to your hearts content and argue why it should be done. It's not going to happen.

Oh I don’t even think they address it in rd 1. Regardless of how I mock it up vs what they are going to do. And I don’t think they address it until rd3 or afternoon because the POS head coach that we have that can’t get out of his own way when it comes to defensive mindset. Our opinions may differ, but the fact is, with a top defense that was healthy, or with one that’s riddled with injuries where scrubs from their couch 2 weeks prior are asked to cover the best TE in football. But here we are. Short of a trophy again. And nothing this defense has been able to do since McD got here has been enough. Even in 2020 when we had our best shot ever and blew it with a coaching and defensive blunder. 

[CNYfan]

Malik Washington dominates.

He is the guy I want

 

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Oh I don’t even think they address it in rd 1. Regardless of how I mock it up vs what they are going to do. And I don’t think they address it until rd3 or afternoon because the POS head coach that we have that can’t get out of his own way when it comes to defensive mindset. Our opinions may differ, but the fact is, with a top defense that was healthy, or with one that’s riddled with injuries where scrubs from their couch 2 weeks prior are asked to cover the best TE in football. But here we are. Short of a trophy again. And nothing this defense has been able to do since McD got here has been enough. Even in 2020 when we had our best shot ever and blew it with a coaching and defensive blunder. 

if we don’t get Allen some quality dynamic WR’s that can actually catch and make plays for him…….

 

It MUST be priority #1

Just now, CNYfan said:

Malik Washington dominates.

He is the guy I want

 

based on some of the advanced stats, he could be a stud in the mid rounds for sure. Would be excited about him

[CNYfan]

5 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

if we don’t get Allen some quality dynamic WR’s that can actually catch and make plays for him…….

 

It MUST be priority #1

based on some of the advanced stats, he could be a stud in the mid rounds for sure. Would be excited about him

M. Washington won't make it out of the top 75, in my opinion.    He catches 10 11 balls a game for a dud qb, in a dud offense. 

 

The scouts will find him and he will be off the board

Edited February 20 by CNYfan

[Green Lightning]

On 2/18/2024 at 11:17 AM, BillsFan2313 said:

 Why do we have to hop a team picking behind us?

We don't. Brain cramp on my part. That said I still hope for Franklin. 

[Warriorspikes51]

7 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

M. Washington won't make it out of the top 75, in my opinion.    He catches 10 11 balls a game for a dud qb, in a dud offense. 

 

The scouts will find him and he will be off the board

you could be right!! 

[MiracleAtRich1393]

33 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

 

 

Sign me up for Troy Franklin and Malik Washington 

[mrags]

26 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

if we don’t get Allen some quality dynamic WR’s that can actually catch and make plays for him…….

 

It MUST be priority #1

based on some of the advanced stats, he could be a stud in the mid rounds for sure. Would be excited about him

You and I agree. We’ll see in about 2 months tho. Personally I think they’ll end up with maybe 1 WR in this draft and it won’t be a first or second rounder. Look for them to hope Justin Freaking Shorter is our #2. Which is the biggest joke ever. 

[Aussie Joe]

31 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

M. Washington won't make it out of the top 75, in my opinion.    He catches 10 11 balls a game for a dud qb, in a dud offense. 

 

The scouts will find him and he will be off the board

Too rich for us then …I was thinking 4th Round 

[mrags]

40 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

M. Washington won't make it out of the top 75, in my opinion.    He catches 10 11 balls a game for a dud qb, in a dud offense. 

 

The scouts will find him and he will be off the board

 

9 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Too rich for us then …I was thinking 4th Round 

At 5’8” someone else can have him 

[Tulsabillsfanz]

Being in Oklahoma, I’ve watched Worthy play in several games for Texas. I thought he really avoided contact last year, but did improve on that somewhat this past season.  Still, I will be surprised if he can stay healthy. You can only avoid contact by running out of bounds so many times in the NFL.  I hope Buffalo doesn’t draft Worthy. 

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, Tulsabillsfanz said:

Being in Oklahoma, I’ve watched Worthy play in several games for Texas. I thought he really avoided contact last year, but did improve on that somewhat this past season.  Still, I will be surprised if he can stay healthy. You can only avoid contact by running out of bounds so many times in the NFL.  I hope Buffalo doesn’t draft Worthy. 

There’s quite a few guys I’d prefer over him. Especially in the later rounds. But my opinion still stands, if you have a chance to get him in RD 2 or after, you probably should take it. But that all depends on how rd1 falls and what youve already got. 

[Solomon Grundy]

Steve Smith Sr. compared Xavier Leggette to DK Metcalf, but better. Also called Ja'Lynn Polk a DAWG