2024 WR Draft Class

[KOKBILLS]

11 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I thought Franklin was the best fit for the Bills and strayed away from that after the combine but as we get closer I find myself drawn back to him again as best fit 

 

He was sick at the Combine and reportedly looked much better at his Pro Day...

 

If you get a chance, and you have not already, watch this pod. Take it for what it's worth (I know...I know... PFF, etc...), but analytically (high end model guy) Franklin is near the top of this class... Palazzolo breaks it down pretty well (the Franklin talk starts around the 39:00 mark)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dKpsFAurAQ

[3rdand12]

51 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I thought Franklin was the best fit for the Bills and strayed away from that after the combine but as we get closer I find myself drawn back to him again as best fit 

My very humble opinion as well

Why do you say so ?

29 minutes ago, LEBills said:

He is still my top realistic pick for the Bills as well. The combine sucked for him but the most concerning parts of the combine - his size, his 10 yard split, his gauntlet just didn’t match what he looked like in game and he weighed more at the pro day. Outside of the top 3, I think he has the best combination of releases at the line, route running, yac, and - most important for the Bills - explosive plays. I do think he is more of a Diggs successor than a Gabe replacement. A well rounded player.

They can draft pure speed as a luxury pick later on.

[gonzo1105]

5 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

My very humble opinion as well

Why do you say so ?

He’s a precise route runner who can take the top off of a defense. Has great acceleration and changes up his speeds on routes making him deceptive. 
 

He’s obviously thin and I worry about press on him in the NFL but he did fine with it in college. He’ll also have to expand his route tree as well so he is not an immediate guy and may never be a true # 1 but he’ll be a really high end 2 or low level 1 in the NFL and I can live with that at the end of round 1. 
 

People on this board expect 1,000 yards rookie year and it’s not going to happen. Diggs, Cook, Kincaid are gonna get the bulk with Shakir, Samuels, Knox getting their share as well. 
 

If we get 40-50 catches for 700 yards I’ll consider that a win for any rookie we decide to draft

Edited March 29 by gonzo1105

[LEBills]

6 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

My very humble opinion as well

Why do you say so ?

They can draft pure speed as a luxury pick later on.

 lol Imo he is much more than just speed

[Dan in Owego]

I'm back on the Troy Franklin train, looking at this class reminds me of my childhood researching the Sears catalog before Christmas😅, everything looks good and exciting.

 

Franklin though to me is the guy i keep circling back to, pretty good route runner ridiculous speed, think he could be our guy. Plus hearing some chipping away at Brian Thomas, giving some people Scantling vibes🧐. I don't know but i really really like Franklins game, we shall see soon enough as i am ready to have the draft done and over with, can't take it anymore far to much wr watching for me😂

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I thought Franklin was the best fit for the Bills and strayed away from that after the combine but as we get closer I find myself drawn back to him again as best fit 

 

See there is no world in which I can watch Franklin's 2023 tape and Legette's and grade Franklin's higher. I know a big part of your concern on Legette is not the 2023 film so much as where was that in 2021 and 2022 and why did it take until 23 to play good football - which is fair. But I just think you are having to look at the most recent film of both and talk yourself into the less impressive tape. I'm not trying to convince you. I know we disagree. I am just trying to explain where I am.

[gonzo1105]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See there is no world in which I can watch Franklin's 2023 tape and Legette's and grade Franklin's higher. I know a big part of your concern on Legette is not the 2023 film so much as where was that in 2021 and 2022 and why did it take until 23 to play good football - which is fair. But I just think you are having to look at the most recent film of both and talk yourself into the less impressive tape. I'm not trying to convince you. I know we disagree. I am just trying to explain where I am.

My comment on Franklin really has nothing to do in comparison with Legette. Yes I have a big problem with a guy who has one year of production and failed in 17 starts before that to be successful. I look at the guys whole career not just one year of tape. 

 

I’m making assumptions and I know someone said it had to do with Justin Fuente being incompetent(not you) but I just don’t believe that Fuente would crush his big opportunity to spite Legette. Beamer was there two years ago as well and he still couldn’t put it together. I just think there has to be some issue I nor you are privy too when it comes to learning a playbook or attitude . Guys that physically talented don’t fail for 4 years for no reason and he didn’t just fail he really failed 
 

I know you disagree but I really think that if Juice Wells didn’t get hurt last year Legette wouldn’t have had such gaudy stats and opportunities 
 

We’ll just have to wait and see in two to 3 years 

Edited March 29 by gonzo1105

[Turbo44]

26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See there is no world in which I can watch Franklin's 2023 tape and Legette's and grade Franklin's higher. I know a big part of your concern on Legette is not the 2023 film so much as where was that in 2021 and 2022 and why did it take until 23 to play good football - which is fair. But I just think you are having to look at the most recent film of both and talk yourself into the less impressive tape. I'm not trying to convince you. I know we disagree. I am just trying to explain where I am.

I would be happy with either or Franklin or Legette at pick 40+ (trade down from 28 or up from 60); I wouldn’t be particularly happy with either at 28

[BillsFanForever19]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See there is no world in which I can watch Franklin's 2023 tape and Legette's and grade Franklin's higher. I know a big part of your concern on Legette is not the 2023 film so much as where was that in 2021 and 2022 and why did it take until 23 to play good football - which is fair. But I just think you are having to look at the most recent film of both and talk yourself into the less impressive tape. I'm not trying to convince you. I know we disagree. I am just trying to explain where I am.

 

Yeah, I'm not understanding the people who are like "look at the tape" when it comes to Franklin. 

 

As I've said before, I think "the tape" refers to YouTube highlight reels.  When you dig deeper than that, there's a lot of uninspiring stuff in the footage. Stuff that the Combine performance seemed to confirm.

 

Leading up to the Combine, fans on this board were way higher on him than a lot of the experts were. Now that we get further and further away from the Combine, there's a push by the people that fell in love with the highlight reel to say "forget about what you saw at the Combine, just look at the shiny highlight video".

 

They also seem to want to go "oh, he was sick? That explains everything, pay no mind to the Combine". A couple major problems with that for me:

 

1.) Sickness had no bearing on him being 2" shorter than he was listed and having under 9" hands.

 

2.) If his sickness contributed to his slower than expected times - why didn't he re-run the 10 yard split and 40 Yard Dash at his Pro Day?

 

There also seems to be this idea that us having a Private Workout with him means that we're heavily interested in him. In all actuality, that's not a good thing. Top Prospects aren't generally asked to re-do their workouts or agree to do that on a visit. Us asking and him agreeing to do that speaks to how badly he looked at the Combine and how they view him now.

 

Long story short, the "tape" isn't anywhere near as strong as the few minute highlights would lead you to believe. And the Combine dispelled the things that made me think he was a 1st Round guy before I watched more than just highlight reels and seemingly confirmed the concerns I had from when I did.

 

Troy is not one of the 8 WR's I have a 1st Round Grade on. He's my WR10 and I'd only be interested if we went with another position in Round 1 and couldn't get one of the first 9 guys I have above him.

Edited March 30 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

My comment on Franklin really has nothing to do in comparison with Legette. Yes I have a big problem with a guy who has one year of production and failed in 17 starts before that to be successful. I look at the guys whole career not just one year of tape. 

 

I’m making assumptions and I know someone said it had to do with Justin Fuente being incompetent(not you) but I just don’t believe that Fuente would crush his big opportunity to spite Legette. Beamer was there two years ago as well and he still couldn’t put it together. I just think there has to be some issue I nor you are privy too when it comes to learning a playbook or attitude . Guys that physically talented don’t fail for 4 years for no reason and he didn’t just fail he really failed 
 

I know you disagree but I really think that if Juice Wells didn’t get hurt last year Legette wouldn’t have had such gaudy stats and opportunities 
 

We’ll just have to wait and see in two to 3 years 

 

I get that. But the 2023 film isn't just good. It is very good. If he had 2 years of that this isn't even a conversation. 

[gonzo1105]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I get that. But the 2023 film isn't just good. It is very good. If he had 2 years of that this isn't even a conversation. 

He doesn’t though. That point is a great hyperbole statement if you’re a fan of his. He doesn’t even have good tape in his whole career before this year and since I’m not part of the process I have to make general assumption on why a 6’1 jacked up speed freak couldn’t put it together at all. Typically due to my experiences of being in a college system is either he’s a dumbass or he’s got a ***** attitude. 

[DCOrange]

40 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Yeah, I'm not understanding the people who are like "look at the tape" when it comes to Franklin. 

 

As I've said before, I think "the tape" refers to YouTube highlight reels.  When you dig deeper than that, there's a lot of uninspiring stuff in the footage. Stuff that the Combine performance seemed to confirm.

 

Leading up to the Combine, fans on this board were way higher on him than a lot of the experts were. Now that we get further and further away from the Combine, there's a push by the people that fell in love with the highlight reel to say "forget about what you saw".

 

They also seem to want to go "oh, he was sick? That explains everything, pay no mind to the Combine". A couple major problems with that for me:

 

1.) Sickness had no bearing on him being 2" shorter than he was listed and having under 9" hands.

 

2.) If his sickness contributed to his slower than expected times - why didn't he re-run the 10 yard split and 40 Yard Dash at his Pro Day?

 

There also seems to be this idea that us having a Private Workout with him means that we're heavily interested in him. In all actuality, that's not a good thing. Top Prospects aren't generally asked to re-do their workouts or agree to do that on a visit. Us asking and him doing that speaks to how badly he looked at the Combine.

 

Long story short, the "tape" isn't anywhere near as strong as the few minute highlights would lead you to believe. And the Combine dispelled the things that made me think he was a 1st Round guy before I watched more than just highlight reels and seemingly confirmed the concerns I had from when I did.

 

Troy is not one of the 8 WR's I have a 1st Round Grade on. He's my WR10 and I'd only be interested if we went with another position in Round 1 and couldn't get one of the first 9 guys I have above him.

I think his tape is mostly very good. The main negative that I questioned a bit on film and was seemingly confirmed at the Combine was his hands. He didn’t drop the ball in the games I watched but it didn’t really look like he was super confident catching the ball and it left me wondering if he just kinda got lucky in the games I watched. Then he struggled with it at the Combine. Definitely a concern.

 

I think he’s one of the few in this class (outside the top 3) that has a true calling card though. Most of these guys require projection or are solid in some areas but it isn’t super clear where they can win on day 1. Franklin showed he can get open in the short passing game with creative releases at the line and that’s something we could definitely use. Add his vertical ability on top of that and you have one of the best WR prospects in the draft IMO (if you can get past the potentially shaky hands).

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

He doesn’t though. That point is a great hyperbole statement if you’re a fan of his. He doesn’t even have good tape in his whole career before this year and since I’m not part of the process I have to make general assumption on why a 6’1 jacked up speed freak couldn’t put it together at all. Typically due to my experiences of being in a college system is either he’s a dumbass or he’s got a ***** attitude. 

 

I know he doesn't. But it is a fair statement regardless. 

[BillsFanForever19]

43 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

He doesn’t though. That point is a great hyperbole statement if you’re a fan of his. He doesn’t even have good tape in his whole career before this year and since I’m not part of the process I have to make general assumption on why a 6’1 jacked up speed freak couldn’t put it together at all. Typically due to my experiences of being in a college system is either he’s a dumbass or he’s got a ***** attitude. 

 

That's some serious conjecture there.

 

There's any number of reasons he couldn't get more playing time. When Deebo needed to be replaced as a Starter, he was just a Freshman. There were 3 WR's who ended up being Drafted at WR from South Carolina during his time there before last season.

 

College teams don't hold open competitions for every position every season. It could have been as simple as the coach just personally preferred others over him until last season. That doesn't confirm he's a lesser player or any of the other things you said. Players get buried in Division 1 all the time.

Edited March 30 by BillsFanForever19

[FireChans]

59 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Yeah, I'm not understanding the people who are like "look at the tape" when it comes to Franklin. 

 

As I've said before, I think "the tape" refers to YouTube highlight reels.  When you dig deeper than that, there's a lot of uninspiring stuff in the footage. Stuff that the Combine performance seemed to confirm.

 

Leading up to the Combine, fans on this board were way higher on him than a lot of the experts were. Now that we get further and further away from the Combine, there's a push by the people that fell in love with the highlight reel to say "forget about what you saw".

 

They also seem to want to go "oh, he was sick? That explains everything, pay no mind to the Combine". A couple major problems with that for me:

 

1.) Sickness had no bearing on him being 2" shorter than he was listed and having under 9" hands.

 

2.) If his sickness contributed to his slower than expected times - why didn't he re-run the 10 yard split and 40 Yard Dash at his Pro Day?

 

There also seems to be this idea that us having a Private Workout with him means that we're heavily interested in him. In all actuality, that's not a good thing. Top Prospects aren't generally asked to re-do their workouts or agree to do that on a visit. Us asking and him doing that speaks to how badly he looked at the Combine.

 

Long story short, the "tape" isn't anywhere near as strong as the few minute highlights would lead you to believe. And the Combine dispelled the things that made me think he was a 1st Round guy before I watched more than just highlight reels and seemingly confirmed the concerns I had from when I did.

 

Troy is not one of the 8 WR's I have a 1st Round Grade on. He's my WR10 and I'd only be interested if we went with another position in Round 1 and couldn't get one of the first 9 guys I have above him.

There’s like 3 posters in TBD history who I actually believe have ever watched any real film.

[gonzo1105]

7 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

That's some serious conjecture there.

 

There's any number of reasons he couldn't get more playing time. When Deebo needed to be replaced as a Starter, he was just a Freshman. There were 3 WR's who ended up being Drafted at WR from South Carolina during his time there before last season.

 

College teams don't hold open competitions for every position every season. It could have been as simple as the coach just personally preferred others over him until last season. That doesn't confirm he's a lesser player or any of the other things you said. Players get buried in Division 1 all the time.

6’1 souped up guys who run a 4.4 don’t get passed up year after year. He also started 6 games as a senior with Beamer last year and Rattler and only caught 17 balls so it’s not like he wasn’t given opportunities as you are saying. He was just didn’t capitalize until this year 

[Dan in Owego]

 

[ghostwriter]

I love Brian Thomas Jr but if we end up with Troy Franklin or Ja’Lynn Polk I won’t lose any sleep over it.

[LEBills]

15 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Yeah, I'm not understanding the people who are like "look at the tape" when it comes to Franklin. 

 

As I've said before, I think "the tape" refers to YouTube highlight reels.  When you dig deeper than that, there's a lot of uninspiring stuff in the footage. Stuff that the Combine performance seemed to confirm.

 

Leading up to the Combine, fans on this board were way higher on him than a lot of the experts were. Now that we get further and further away from the Combine, there's a push by the people that fell in love with the highlight reel to say "forget about what you saw at the Combine, just look at the shiny highlight video".

 

They also seem to want to go "oh, he was sick? That explains everything, pay no mind to the Combine". A couple major problems with that for me:

 

1.) Sickness had no bearing on him being 2" shorter than he was listed and having under 9" hands.

 

2.) If his sickness contributed to his slower than expected times - why didn't he re-run the 10 yard split and 40 Yard Dash at his Pro Day?

 

There also seems to be this idea that us having a Private Workout with him means that we're heavily interested in him. In all actuality, that's not a good thing. Top Prospects aren't generally asked to re-do their workouts or agree to do that on a visit. Us asking and him agreeing to do that speaks to how badly he looked at the Combine and how they view him now.

 

Long story short, the "tape" isn't anywhere near as strong as the few minute highlights would lead you to believe. And the Combine dispelled the things that made me think he was a 1st Round guy before I watched more than just highlight reels and seemingly confirmed the concerns I had from when I did.

 

Troy is not one of the 8 WR's I have a 1st Round Grade on. He's my WR10 and I'd only be interested if we went with another position in Round 1 and couldn't get one of the first 9 guys I have above him.

One of the things I love about this time of year is that different people can see different things when trying to project players to the NFL. I will agree that Franklin has his share of lowlights, but so does every WR in the draft. Personally, if I see the same good plays over and over, I do forgive the times the play is missed. 
 

Im not a combine hater at all. I think testing numbers both good and bad are a reason to go back and watch to see if the testing shows up on the field. Some guys run a fast 40 but can’t run away from anyone on the field, etc. As DCOrange mentioned upthread, the gauntlet kind of confirmed Franklins hands are not a strong suit and his catch radius is a bit limited which you do see show up and he did have a 10% drop rate this year and his hands are sub 9 inch. 
 

I do not blame him though for being a little shorter than reported like everyone else usually is or for him not rerunning a 40 -that he did clock a good 4.41 time - at a pro day. I dont think I’ve ever seen 10 yard split times reported from any pro day but maybe I’ve missed that. As for the private workout for the Bills, I don’t think it means the Bills have him listed above the other receivers or want to retest his numbers. They had Josh for a private pre draft workout because they wanted to know him better.

 

I’ll try to show you some non-highlight reels and why some of us are high on Franklin as a player.

 

Utah 2022 3:59

this is from his sophomore season against Clark Phillips iii (4th rounder of the Falcons last year). Facing soft press near the end zone, he is excellent at planting and exploding off that outside leg on slants

 

Washington State 2023

 

You see the same play at :14 seconds against the Senior MVP of the National team Chau Smith-Wade. The following play he gets vertical out of the slot against CSW.

 

2023 Pac12 Championship game

 

8:06 in the video. Same play, 4th down need to have it play. This was after Franklin got injured in the first half and was gutting out the game.

 

Oregon State 2023

This whole cut up is a great example of how on the same page Franklin and Nix were this season. Option routed and comebacked the OSU defense to death.

 

Arizona State 2023

Started the cut up with a beautiful post route touchdown. You see him later blow past his guy immediately for a long touchdown (1:37).

 

Utah 2023

 

This is a good example of what I like about Franklin and where his weaknesses are - you see him fight for yac on a screen, followed by a deep comeback, then he blows past his guy and misses the deep catch, hits the post. Skipping ahead to 1:16 he makes Cole Bishop (mid round draftee this year) whiff and catches the touchdown.

 

Washington (2023)

Washington is going to have several people in their secondary drafted eventually. Jabbar Muhammad (#1) is an aggressive player and should be an early round corner when he comes out. He beats him deep with a subtle push off at :45 causing a PI penalty when 1 tries to recover. Then 2:39 he avoids the jam and you see the speed as he beats Dominique Hampton who will likely get drafted this year to the corner of the EZ. Then finally, he Beats 1 fast off the line and has to turn his body to make the one handed catch with 1 holding onto his other hand. This was as they tried to close out the game - which they didn’t lol

 

In addition to everything you see in these cut ups. two stats I love for him. 1. He averaged over 3 yprr against both man and zone this year. 2. He had a catch of 30 yards or more in 12 of his 13 games (the one miss being the championship game when he got hurt) which was by far the most in this class. I love this latter stat because it shows no matter who he was playing he could generate explosive plays.

 

So anyway, Franklin is my WR4. Some other players may be more dominant than him out of this class. But he is just too good in too many ways not to be a good pro imo. I think he would be really good in Buffalo.

Edited March 30 by LEBills

[Donuts and Doritos]