Bills Offensive Coordinator Interviews have started according to Jeremy Fowler

[Niagara Dude]

7 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Eric Bienemy wouldn’t be a bad look. Has experience with superstar QB’s and star Tight Ends. 

Another good one to consider,  again it would be a mistake to just hand Brady the job because he really did not improve the passing game and Bills could have easily lost to the Chiefs/Chargers and Dolphins who were missing so many players.  All 3 of those games were decided on final drives

[dave mcbride]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I think on reflection I would prefer to move on from Brady. It's nothing he did specifically. I just still see an overall lack of crispness in the finer details of the offense and that's what separates champions from divisional round losers. The routes aren't precise in a way that opens up other routes, the players aren't always on the same page, there appears to be an overall lack of accountability. I think Brady is a perfectly fine play designer and play caller. But I want a true coach at the position. Someone that the players respect and fear. Brady is probably too young to have that kind of reputation amongst 20-something multimillionaires. He still has his dues to pay in the league.

 

So for me I think my preference is Eric Bieniemy. He has a reputation that players don't enjoy working for him. I take that as a positive. He isn't afraid to hold anybody accountable, not even Mahomes when he was in KC. That more than an offensive whiz kid is what I think this offense needs to be more consistent on a week to week basis. He learned under the best of the best and for a time was even making Sam Howell look competent. He is a complete 180 from the coaching styles of Dorsey and Brady... maybe that's just what we need.

If you want someone like that, I think Josh McDaniel is someone they should be talking to. Yes, his head coaching gigs didn’t work out, but he ran incredibly well-designed offenses in NE that adapted weekly to whoever the opponent was. And he got a Pro Bowl season out of Mac Jones. Is he likable? Maybe not, but neither is Bienemy.

 

I also thought Washington’s offense this year was ragged and too high-risk. The sack numbers were ridiculous, and while a lot of that is on Howell, a good part of it is on the structure of the offense too.

Edited January 26 by dave mcbride

[Niagara Dude]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The outside point is a fair one. But they didn't just hand Dorsey the job. They interviewed two other candidates. He was always the front runner - but then he was one of the hottest OC candidates on the market that year. He had OC interviews the year before too. 

 

But I do take the outside perspectives point. I am not saying I'd hand Brady the job. I'd bring some credible external candidates in. But it wouldn't shock me if Brady ended up with it. He will be an OC somewhere in the NFL next season. If it isn't here he will be somewhere else.

 

I just think we need to look closer what the offence did in final games,  we won but the defence also came up strong

 

Even Pats game,  we had all those turnovers in the first half and still the offence could not put them away. The Dolphins game against a team missing so many defensive starters we struggled,  easily could have lost Chiefs game had Toney not lined up offside and our offence struggled in Chargers game

 

Not sure why anyone is totally sold on Brady,  I thought Sunday the play calling was borderline stupid.  The Chiefs adjusted when they saw us bring in extra lineman and he just kept running.

 

Everyone talks about wasting Allen's prime years with McDermott,  then the next best thing is to hire a cordinator that gets the most out of him.  Were going to live and die with out top paid and top player Allen.  You need to have the best cordinator possible and not just a guy who was around and got promoted

Edited January 26 by Niagara Dude

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

8 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

If you want to win a Lombardi and your Head Coach is a defensive guy, you need a great OC.  

 

The opposite is true, too.  That's why Reid has Spags.   They're an excellent combo.  

 

Brady is just okay.  I suppose it's possible to surround him with enough great coaches that our offense becomes great.   Ideally, though, we'd have a creative genius with great leadership skills as our OC.  

I'm going to reserve judgement about how good he actually is until I see him with a full year as a OC. As I've said before, and will say again: we did not see Brady install an offense this year. What he saw him do was call better situational plays from Ken Dorsey's and introduce a few Shanahan inspired wrinkles. Dorsey's scheme in turn was heavily inspired by what Daboll had done.

 

While I suspect that Brady will use similar verbiage that the players are familiar with, you definitely saw differences: far more run heavy that what Daboll and Dorsey did. All used motion, but Brady seemed focused on it as a way to diagnose defenses rather than the high speed attack Miami uses.

 

So I can't really say how he is overall as an OC. Maybe he pooped the bed in his interview when asked how he would change the offense and we get blown away by another candidate. All I know is that he called a hell of a better offense since anyone since Daboll. Maybe better than Daboll.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Niagara Dude said:

 

I just think we need to look who the offence did in final games,  we won but the defence also came up strong

 

Even Pats games,  we had all those turnovers in the first half and still the offence could not put them away. The Dolphins game against a team missing so many defensive starters we struggled,  easily could have lost Chiefs game had Toney not lined up offside and our offence struggled in Chargers game

 

Not sure why anyone is totally sold on Brady,  I thought Sunday the play calling was borderline stupid.  The Chiefs adjusted when they saw us bring in extra lineman and he just kept running.

 

Everyone talks about wasting Allen's prime years with McDermott,  then the next best thing is to hire a cordinator that gets the most out of him.  Were going to live and die with out top paid and top player Allen.  You need to have the best cordinator possible and not just a guy who was around and got promoted

 

I'm not totally sold on Brady. But I think he is a credible candidate. And I disagree re. the playcalling on Sunday. I think he called a good game. The big issue that has thwarted both OCs this year is the Bills inability to separate vertically. It has forced us to be a small ball offense. We won't be explosive again without upgrading the explosiveness outside. It is a Brandon Beane issue as much as an offensive coordinator one. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

2 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

 

I just think we need to look closer what the offence did in final games,  we won but the defence also came up strong

 

Even Pats game,  we had all those turnovers in the first half and still the offence could not put them away. The Dolphins game against a team missing so many defensive starters we struggled,  easily could have lost Chiefs game had Toney not lined up offside and our offence struggled in Chargers game

 

Not sure why anyone is totally sold on Brady,  I thought Sunday the play calling was borderline stupid.  The Chiefs adjusted when they saw us bring in extra lineman and he just kept running.

 

Everyone talks about wasting Allen's prime years with McDermott,  then the next best thing is to hire a cordinator that gets the most out of him.  Were going to live and die with out top paid and top player Allen.  You need to have the best cordinator possible and not just a guy who was around and got promoted

Really? Because I thought overall he did a good job against the Chiefs.

 

The running worked extremely well through the third quarter. It wasn't until the 4th when they started changing up things to stop them. The two 4th quarter stalls were the drive when the Chiefs finally adjusted, the first has the Bills in 3rd and makable when Allen gets a pass batted, and the next is where they get stuffed and Sherfield can't bring it in deep.

 

He DOES adjust on the final drive. The Chiefs are run blitzing. Allen takes his third big deep shot that is catchable and it slides through Diggs' hands. Allen starts hitting hot routes for blitz beaters, which is one of the easier ways to attack the Chiefs now that they need to blitz to stop the run. Kincaid had three catches averaging 7 YPA and that's the kind of thing you take all day. I don't even mind the run call at the two minute warning because I was thoroughly expecting KC to call a timeout and it was to our benefit that they didn't.

 

That Shakir and Diggs were both open on that 2nd and 9 and there were bodies available to make it a 4th and short decision on 3rd down speak more to Allen's decision making than Brady's scheming and playcalling.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Tough to fault Brady when there were 3-4 huge drops and both Diggs and Shakir were open on the missed TD play. 
 

Also tough to argue against the turnaround after he was made OC.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Really? Because I thought overall he did a good job against the Chiefs.

 

The running worked extremely well through the third quarter. It wasn't until the 4th when they started changing up things to stop them. The two 4th quarter stalls were the drive when the Chiefs finally adjusted, the first has the Bills in 3rd and makable when Allen gets a pass batted, and the next is where they get stuffed and Sherfield can't bring it in deep.

 

He DOES adjust on the final drive. The Chiefs are run blitzing. Allen takes his third big deep shot that is catchable and it slides through Diggs' hands. Allen starts hitting hot routes for blitz beaters, which is one of the easier ways to attack the Chiefs now that they need to blitz to stop the run. Kincaid had three catches averaging 7 YPA and that's the kind of thing you take all day. I don't even mind the run call at the two minute warning because I was thoroughly expecting KC to call a timeout and it was to our benefit that they didn't.

 

That Shakir and Diggs were both open on that 2nd and 9 and there were bodies available to make it a 4th and short decision on 3rd down speak more to Allen's decision making than Brady's scheming and playcalling.

 

You watched the same game I did. 

[Scott7975]

We don't see explosive offense anymore because we don't have prime Brown and prime Beasley anymore.  We have an unreliable Davis that is a one trick pony, Sherfield, and Harty.  Yes, we have Shakir as well and I think he is the most explosive player on the team but he still isn't prime Beasley.  At least not yet.  There is no one on the team to stretch the field, get quick separation, has reliable hands, makes contested catches, makes catches that aren't perfect balls, etc.  If you want to see explosive offense then you need more talent.  Davis, Harty, and Sherfield are not it.

 

I dunno if Brady is the guy or not.  I like some of what he did.  I think some of what he didn't do was being hampered by lack of talent.  This team desperately needs another outside receiver.  I think if we get that we get more explosive offense instead of dink and dunk all the time.  You can not consistently score by just taking what the defense gives you every single play. Especially when those little short passes don't get that YAC.

 

When Brady was the master of dink and dunk it worked because those guys could take a 3 yard pass and rip off 10-20 more yards.  That makes up for big throws downfield.  They still had big throws downfield too. You have to have guys that can break what the defense gives you and makes a play too.  Throwing 2-5 yards all game is only going to beat bad teams.  Sure, you need to be able to do it but that can't be for entire games.  Too much room for error to expect to score 7 points on 10-15 play 6-8 minute drives every drive.  No top offense in the league relies on just getting 2-5 yards per play.

Edited January 26 by Scott7975

[Back2Buff]

10 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Tough to fault Brady when there were 3-4 huge drops and both Diggs and Shakir were open on the missed TD play. 
 

Also tough to argue against the turnaround after he was made OC.

 

There was no turn around on the offense with him as coach.  The offense struggled just as much, if not more.  There were games where they had turnover luck that greatly benefited them.

 

Really the only difference was Allen running more, which is that something you really want for 17 games in a season?

 

Go back and read about all the issues Brady had in Carolina, he sounds awfully familiar.

 

There's nothing complex about Brady's scheme. It's very basic, which is why he struggled to have positive results. In this league, you can't be predictable. You have to throw in a bunch of motions, double moves, RPO's, rub routes, and present the defense with some eye candy pre-snap. From what I can tell, 90% of the motions are just to expose if the defense is in man or zone coverage. There are very few motions into routes, blocks, or once again, eye candy.

 

That quote about, is exactly what we seen with the Bills.  The Bills added more motion, but it was literally just what was described above.  Look at the motion that Miami runs, vs the motion that Brady ran.

 

Read some of these responses from Carolina fans.  This is the same things that we seen in his short time here.  It's really concerning.

 

Fan POV

 

Joe Brady is/was the guy who ran the same 5 plays on Madden against the A.I. and impressed his friends.

Then he went online and everyone else knew how to stop those plays.

 

How many times are we going to see the WR screen?

 

This is so true. He was also terrible at making adjustments, our 3rd quarter scoring being a prime example. Overall, I think he was decent at play & scheme design, but could never put it into action for longer than a few drives

 

The second halfs were terrible under Brady.  1st KC game, 14 in 1st/6 in 2nd.  LA game, 14 in 1st/10 in 2nd.  7 points in 2nd half vs NE.  10 points in 2nd half vs Pitt.  7 points in 2nd half vs KC.

 

 

His scheme was pretty chaotic and bad overall. There were multiple plays where receivers end up in the same spot once the route develops. Even his short yardage play is terrible.

I honestly can't say what I think his strength was overall because nothing about him was amazing. As I mentioned in another post, his play designs rely on having physically dominant talent and once you get to the NFL--everyone is kind of on a level playing field.

 

Didn't we have WR running into each other vs KC.  Being physically dominant sounds familiar with the Dallas game.

 

Often looked like the opponents knew what play was coming. Seemed like play calling tended not to be balanced it would be all screens or no screens, All runs or no runs etc. There were things that felt like strengths from a fans perspective that we almost didn’t use at all at times like short routes to CMC and runs with Cam. No offensive player has really shown improvement while the defensive players seem to work on their weaknesses. Maybe it’s our lack of understanding of the complexity but from my perspective it’s hard to find something that it appears he excelled at. The main defense is just that our offensive players are not good.

 

This hits home big time.

[SoCal Deek]

I have no idea what game some of you were watching on Sunday. The Bills strategy worked perfectly until the final series of plays. The ‘long ball’ wasn’t going to accomplish anything in that game other than to give the ball back to an opponent we simply couldn’t stop. Heck, even one of the announcers called it in the pregame. With an injury depleted defense the Bills had only one choice….keep the damn ball! Which they did perfectly (go look at the number of plays and time of possession) until a total brain cramp caused them to try a go deep. Huge mistake! 

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

We don't see explosive offense anymore because we don't have prime Brown and prime Beasley anymore.  We have an unreliable Davis that is a one trick pony, Sherfield, and Harty.  Yes, we have Shakir as well and I think he is the most explosive player on the team but he still isn't prime Beasley.  At least not yet.  There is no one on the team to stretch the field, get quick separation, has reliable hands, makes contested catches, makes catches that aren't perfect balls, etc.  If you want to see explosive offense then you need more talent.  Davis, Harty, and Sherfield are not it.

 

I dunno if Brady is the guy or not.  I like some of what he did.  I think some of what he didn't do was being hampered by lack of talent.  This team desperately needs another outside receiver.  I think if we get that we get more explosive offense instead of dink and dunk all the time.  You can not consistently score by just taking what the defense gives you every single play. Especially when those little short passes don't get that YAC.

 

When Brady was the master of dink and dunk it worked because those guys could take a 3 yard pass and rip off 10-20 more yards.  That makes up for big throws downfield.  They still had big throws downfield too. You have to have guys that can break what the defense gives you and makes a play too.  Throwing 2-5 yards all game is only going to beat bad teams.  Sure, you need to be able to do it but that can't be for entire games.  Too much room for error to expect to score 7 points on 10-15 play 6-8 minute drives every drive.  No top offense in the league relies on just getting 2-5 yards per play.

 

As you know I agree totally that the Bills need an outside receiver who can get vertical and gives them a more explosive element. That said their YAC numbers were much better this year. I think @Shaw66 said they were 6th in the league. That has been a problem other seasons, but actually by design when you are so small ball the YAC comes. 

17 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

 

There's nothing complex about Brady's scheme. It's very basic, which is why he struggled to have positive results. In this league, you can't be predictable. You have to throw in a bunch of motions, double moves, RPO's, rub routes, and present the defense with some eye candy pre-snap. From what I can tell, 90% of the motions are just to expose if the defense is in man or zone coverage. There are very few motions into routes, blocks, or once again, eye candy.

 

 

I was very critical of Brady in Carolina. He was in over his head IMO and he did not do a great job. That said, here Dorsey was the predictable one and Brady DID incorporate a bunch of motions, stack formations, pre-snap movement and rub routes. He ran the same plays broadly but dressed them up with better eye candy and misdirection. So that element of the criticism from the Panthers has not, to this point, carried across to the Bills. He also use leverage really cleverly and used the middle of the field which were Dorsey weaknessed. 

 

Again, not me saying they "must" hire Joe Brady. I don't think that. But I do think he is a credible candidate for the job and will be an OC somewhere in the NFL next year. Let's see who else they bring in for interview.

[extrahammer]

Instead of JUST landing with Brady, why not hire a team of offensive experts? Like an offensive board of directors for Brady to report to. 

[Strethor]

I like Joe Brady having an off-season to work on his concepts. Allen is dealing with much smaller windows to fit balls in than around the league. Will be interesting to see, definitely should leave no stone unturned when the best minds should be fighting to get a job here. Cause 1-2 years of good production will get a look at HC based on NFL trends.

[MrEpsYtown]

6 minutes ago, extrahammer said:

Instead of JUST landing with Brady, why not hire a team of offensive experts? Like an offensive board of directors for Brady to report to. 

 

So they have Rob Boras as TE coach who has been around a while and spent some time as an interim head coach for the Rams. Mike Shula is on staff who is a former OC, QB coach, and head coach in college as a consultant. They also have Adam Henry, who I am not sure did a very good job, but he has been around while and got his start under Lane Kiffin with the Raiders. Plus Aaron Kromer has been an OC and run game coordinator and interim head coach in the league before in multiple schemes. So experience on the offensive staff isn't the issue imo. Hopefully whoever they hire finds guys who will help implement their vision for the offense. 

[Captain Hindsight]

17 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

One low key interesting storyline to the OC/DC search.

 

McD may be hiring his successor, could that impact who he hires? Frank Reich and Eric Washington aren’t replacing him…

No it won't. If they fire McDermott, they are not replacing him with anyone on staff. That such a rare thing in sports

[extrahammer]

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

So they have Rob Boras as TE coach who has been around a while and spent some time as an interim head coach for the Rams. Mike Shula is on staff who is a former OC, QB coach, and head coach in college as a consultant. They also have Adam Henry, who I am not sure did a very good job, but he has been around while and got his start under Lane Kiffin with the Raiders. Plus Aaron Kromer has been an OC and run game coordinator and interim head coach in the league before in multiple schemes. So experience on the offensive staff isn't the issue imo. Hopefully whoever they hire finds guys who will help implement their vision for the offense. 

 

IMO it is, because our last two OC's, Brady and Dorsey, were first time OC's. And also IMO I highly doubt all these consultants are collaborating and optimizing the offense every week.  

[BananaB]

More I think about it the more I want McDaniels. Guy is proven, he even had McCorkle looking like a decent QB. He also won’t be poached for a HC job any time soon. 

[since79]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

If you want someone like that, I think Josh McDaniel is someone they should be talking to. Yes, his head coaching gigs didn’t work out, but he ran incredibly well-designed offenses in NE that adapted weekly to whoever the opponent was. And he got a Pro Bowl season out of Mac Jones. Is he likable? Maybe not, but neither is Bienemy.

 

I also thought Washington’s offense this year was ragged and too high-risk. The sack numbers were ridiculous, and while a lot of that is on Howell, a good part of it is on the structure of the offense too.

Would not have to be a complete offense overhaul.  McDaniel is a EP offense coach.  He certainly has more experience running it compared to the last 3 including Dabol.  Would be a good fit possibly.   What I always liked about NE is they were adaptable not trying to put square pegs in round holes.   I am sure that he is accustomed to making half time adjustments. Something I don’t think we stress as a team unless it is to protect the D with a lead.  

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

20 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Brady did a fine job considering the circumstances. He developed the run game and established a bonafide threat with Cook. 
 

Im ok with him for one more year.

You’re correct, but our explosive plays virtually disappeared under Brady, so I’m not sold on him as the answer.