Josh made the right call to go for the TD

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, freddyjj said:

My understanding of the rule book is that if contact happens within 5 yds of line of scrimmage and occurs before ball is thrown then it is legal contact.  
 

The NBC footage from behind QB appeared to show  contact being made before ball was released.  

 

 

You can maintain "contact" from the snap thru 5 yards.   Contact like having a hand on the receiver.  That doesn't include all kinds of contact.  An off-defender like Williams in this case can't just throw a shoulder or forearm into a receiver as they cross the field the way they did.  If that were allowed everyone would do it to take away shallow crossers.   It was blatant and obvious.  If he just backs into the receiver without looking at him and clearly forcing a collision, maybe it gets chalked up as incidental contact.   I've seen Milano get away with that before.   But Wiliams wasn't nearly that subtle.   Unfortunately, because for those of us at the game most didn't see that contact until they showed us the replay.   At which point there was little disagreement with the call.

[QLBillsFan]

On 1/25/2024 at 8:14 AM, frostbitmic said:

If Josh hit Shakir for the TD there, maybe the Chiefs would leave a minute on the clock after they retook the lead.

Exactly! The history of the rivalry and the Bills banged up D during this game showed one and only one strategy made sense. And that is gain first downs and literally run the clock down to as close to zero as possible. Underneath to Diggs for a good gain and possible first down. Or after the miss to Shakir.. play a 4 down game. Maybe a run or quick swing pass to get to 4th and 2 or 3. Then go for it. Even 4th and 9 with the ball in Josh’s hands was a better choice than a FG giving Patty 1:43 and 2 TOs to get a FG. The entire stadium knew Bass was not confident. Why kick a FG that meant nothing. Eat the clock, use 4 downs and win or lose with your best player on the field! 

[BillsfaninCT]

math doesn't work.

The Bills went 16 plays ON THAT DRIVE

had the ball for more than 37 minutes in the game

78 plays to Kansas City's 47

--(yet KC was winning, giving the ball back with 1:50 to go is the best decision??  lets check the math)

Josh Allen completed 26 of 39 passes for 186 yards and a touchdown but Josh rushed for 72 yards and two touchdowns on 12 carries, zero plays throwing over 20yds

--but now we gonna take 25yrd kill shots after diggs just dropped one in his hands instead of run josh or i dunno take diggs on a crosser wide open?  like you, know, what worked??

 

2mins of 37mins is 5% of the offensive time of possession.

at the 2 min warning with 5% of possession time left to control the game, it makes zero football sense even if you only consider that drive, let alone the game, let alone the previous 6 games.  418mins of 420... that's 99.52% thrown away on 2 kill shot plays, nonsense.

 

you're telling me that with 3.3% left to go in the game and 5% of their total T.O.P., running the clock out and scoring a touch down wins the game or running the clock out and kicking a field goal guarantees overtime, that ONLY at the 2min warning do they change their mind is both buffalo's decision and is the thing to do?

 

nobody can actually be serious about looking directly at diggs and throwing to Shakir as "the best option" with that math and pretext.  it's total nonsense because it doesn't add up.

 

i can't accept that.  the outcome is the outcome but I'd love to have the communications going on at the 2 min warning.

Edited January 26 by BillsfaninCT

[JoshAllin]

I wonder what are the odds Reid called for a quick TD after seeing the bills dominate them in T.O.P. All of a sudden the top is wide open for them

[Success]

Heard another podcaster call that throw "hero ball" again today.

 

Maddening.

 

It's "hero ball" because it's Allen.  Once a QB establishes any reputation in the league, it sticks.  For most QB's, that's a 20+ yard pass to an open receiver.

 

[BigDingus]

On 1/25/2024 at 10:05 AM, Success said:

And I hope Mahomes throws 3 picks this week so we can all see the double-standard.  It won't be nearly as analyzed and dissected.

 

 

I'm more selfish than that. I want Mahomes to win.

 

If the Ravens KO the Chiefs & advance to the Super Bowl, that'll just make the narrative against Josh even stronger. "Every other elite QB in the AFC accomplished more & made a Super Bowl!"

 

Burrow & Lamar both made more AFCCGs, both beat the Chiefs in the playoffs, both made a SB, and one even has an MVP (possibly 2). If Mahomes KO's Lamar, that drops his record to 2-4 in the postseason, and it'll still give Josh some breathing room.

[ChrisWatson#21]

On 1/25/2024 at 11:11 AM, Low Positive said:

Exactly. If Chris Jones doesn't drive Dion into Josh then that is a TD. BTW, he still would have probably missed Diggs underneath for the same reason. The only criticism that I can muster here is that maybe Josh should have slid to his right a bit to get clear of the pressure, but that is really picking nits.

And why didn’t he?  He was staring to his left so obviously I think even from before the snap lol… Never in my life of watching Josh’s film I’ve seen him stare down a receiver like he did there.   It’s okay because I guess Josh has NO peripheral vision to see Jones pushing Dawkins into his lap😂 Guys wake up!  We’ve been had by these billionaires/millionaires.  They told Josh to take a dive for Swiftie revenue.  I know what my eyes showed me.  That is NOT the Josh Allen we’ve seen play for six years here.  Sorry Roger ain’t buying it. 

[billieve420]

3 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

I'm more selfish than that. I want Mahomes to win.

 

If the Ravens KO the Chiefs & advance to the Super Bowl, that'll just make the narrative against Josh even stronger. "Every other elite QB in the AFC accomplished more & made a Super Bowl!"

 

Burrow & Lamar both made more AFCCGs, both beat the Chiefs in the playoffs, both made a SB, and one even has an MVP (possibly 2). If Mahomes KO's Lamar, that drops his record to 2-4 in the postseason, and it'll still give Josh some breathing room.

Then rat face gets embarrassed in the Super Bowl. I could live with that. Mahomes winning another Super Bowl and KC becomes a dynasty.

[ChrisWatson#21]

On 1/25/2024 at 11:14 AM, Governor said:

What fans and coaches expect from Josh is just absolutely insane. He’s supposed to kill an entire quarter of clock and instantly throw a TD when McD snaps his fingers, and every week.

Because he is by FAR the best and most talented QB in the NFL and we all that have witnessed him play here for six years know that.  Trust me Josh Allen is HIM when it comes to QB’s.  It is why I will go to my grave saying he took a dive for the league.  There is absolutely no way I will as a Josh Allen and football fan accept how he played that final drive specifically that 2nd and 9 play.  No way no how.  I know football been watching it for nearly 40 years and most specifically know Josh Allen and that was not him.  No chance in hell.  

[Neo]

17 hours ago, BillsfaninCT said:

math doesn't work.

The Bills went 16 plays ON THAT DRIVE

had the ball for more than 37 minutes in the game

78 plays to Kansas City's 47

--(yet KC was winning, giving the ball back with 1:50 to go is the best decision??  lets check the math)

Josh Allen completed 26 of 39 passes for 186 yards and a touchdown but Josh rushed for 72 yards and two touchdowns on 12 carries, zero plays throwing over 20yds

--but now we gonna take 25yrd kill shots after diggs just dropped one in his hands instead of run josh or i dunno take diggs on a crosser wide open?  like you, know, what worked??

 

2mins of 37mins is 5% of the offensive time of possession.

at the 2 min warning with 5% of possession time left to control the game, it makes zero football sense even if you only consider that drive, let alone the game, let alone the previous 6 games.  418mins of 420... that's 99.52% thrown away on 2 kill shot plays, nonsense.

 

you're telling me that with 3.3% left to go in the game and 5% of their total T.O.P., running the clock out and scoring a touch down wins the game or running the clock out and kicking a field goal guarantees overtime, that ONLY at the 2min warning do they change their mind is both buffalo's decision and is the thing to do?

 

nobody can actually be serious about looking directly at diggs and throwing to Shakir as "the best option" with that math and pretext.  it's total nonsense because it doesn't add up.

 

i can't accept that.  the outcome is the outcome but I'd love to have the communications going on at the 2 min warning.

 

 

Grateful for the effort.   Putting a bunch of numbers into paragraphs doesn’t meet the minimum requirement for “math” to take place, though.  I do see a bunch of numbers, certainly!

 

 

[Bob Jones]

4 hours ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

Because he is by FAR the best and most talented QB in the NFL and we all that have witnessed him play here for six years know that.  Trust me Josh Allen is HIM when it comes to QB’s.  It is why I will go to my grave saying he took a dive for the league.  There is absolutely no way I will as a Josh Allen and football fan accept how he played that final drive specifically that 2nd and 9 play.  No way no how.  I know football been watching it for nearly 40 years and most specifically know Josh Allen and that was not him.  No chance in hell.  

He’s good, very good, for sure, but not as good as you (and a lot of other people) seem to think. Sure he has the physical tools to be one of the best ever, but the mind/mental part of playing QB is actually more important than the physical tools part. JA is not there yet, and not even close, as we saw him go up and down this year with “stupid mistakes.” We all wondered, even in this forum, whether we’d see “Good Josh” or “Bad Josh” every week. LOL

 

That being said, I don’t think he “threw” the game, I just think he’s got a ways to go before he stops making stupid mistakes, like in this case, not taking a step or two to the right and forward into an open pocket, to ensure a clean throw.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

23 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You can maintain "contact" from the snap thru 5 yards.   Contact like having a hand on the receiver.  That doesn't include all kinds of contact.  An off-defender like Williams in this case can't just throw a shoulder or forearm into a receiver as they cross the field the way they did.  If that were allowed everyone would do it to take away shallow crossers.   It was blatant and obvious.  If he just backs into the receiver without looking at him and clearly forcing a collision, maybe it gets chalked up as incidental contact.   I've seen Milano get away with that before.   But Wiliams wasn't nearly that subtle.   Unfortunately, because for those of us at the game most didn't see that contact until they showed us the replay.   At which point there was little disagreement with the call.

 

If this is the case, it was odd that the officiating crew had to huddle up for such a long time to make the call. Typically, when the officials huddle up it is because they have to determine between multiple officials both contact and where the QB was on the field or had the ball left the QB's hand or not. If it is as simple as you suggest, can't throw a shoulder into a passing crosser, regardless of if the ball is released yet or not, I don't see the need to discuss it in depth with the entire crew. It's an easy call to make with just one official if that is the case.

[machine gun kelly]

9 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

I'm more selfish than that. I want Mahomes to win.

 

If the Ravens KO the Chiefs & advance to the Super Bowl, that'll just make the narrative against Josh even stronger. "Every other elite QB in the AFC accomplished more & made a Super Bowl!"

 

Burrow & Lamar both made more AFCCGs, both beat the Chiefs in the playoffs, both made a SB, and one even has an MVP (possibly 2). If Mahomes KO's Lamar, that drops his record to 2-4 in the postseason, and it'll still give Josh some breathing room.

I respect your pov, but I’m in the other camp.  I don’t care about the narrative.  I care about the Chiefs going home.  If Lamar makes it to the SB, so be it.  I think the Ravens are going to win it all regardless of which team they play.

 

For me, I’m hopeful the Lions pull it off and finally make it to their 1st SB.

[JROC INTEL]

I like the post, and respect your valid argument. I’m not hating on Josh because he’s obviously the reason for all of our success.

 

At the same time, my point of view is that it was not the best situational awareness. Yes it may have been a TD, but I think you take the higher probability play underneath for the first down and the eat clock. I just think the odds of winning are higher there. 
 

I’m sticking with that thought. 

[Neo]

5 hours ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

Because he is by FAR the best and most talented QB in the NFL and we all that have witnessed him play here for six years know that.  Trust me Josh Allen is HIM when it comes to QB’s.  It is why I will go to my grave saying he took a dive for the league.  There is absolutely no way I will as a Josh Allen and football fan accept how he played that final drive specifically that 2nd and 9 play.  No way no how.  I know football been watching it for nearly 40 years and most specifically know Josh Allen and that was not him.  No chance in hell. 

I agree.   Allen definitely took a dive.   Imagine the choreography that went into scripting Jones and Dawkins to bump him milliseconds before the release.    These guys are GOOD!  I imagine the agents and marketing companies were involved, too.   After all, simply throwing a pick in a critical situation would decrease Allen’s contract value at the next signing.  You have to imagine the DBs were also briefed.  You know, leave TWO men open.  Of course their agents, and staffs.  I have been watching football for FIFTY years, and your hypothesis still holds.   I’m waiting for the All 22.   There had to be a lone figure on the grassy knoll scoreboard, in case something went wrong.  You know, a Jack Ruby of sorts in case something went wrong.  A closer, or fail safe.  We’ll know we’re correct if we see Allen driving an unexplainable nice car, or a new stereo or something.  You watch, the losing quarterback in the AFC Championship is going to throw an incompletion, and we’ll have even more evidence.

 

I have to stop, now.   One of my transmitter molars is coming loose and I don’t want to miss an assignment.  I may be sent to discredit some of the “sharps” who had the wrong side of Vegas.  They’ve been edgy since small market Green Bay beat big market Dallas a couple of weeks ago.  Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel.

[CincyBillsFan]

9 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

I'm more selfish than that. I want Mahomes to win.

 

If the Ravens KO the Chiefs & advance to the Super Bowl, that'll just make the narrative against Josh even stronger. "Every other elite QB in the AFC accomplished more & made a Super Bowl!"

 

Burrow & Lamar both made more AFCCGs, both beat the Chiefs in the playoffs, both made a SB, and one even has an MVP (possibly 2). If Mahomes KO's Lamar, that drops his record to 2-4 in the postseason, and it'll still give Josh some breathing room.

I think it strengthens the narrative that McD is not good enough to get the Bills to the SB.  KC & Cincy have both put their offenses ahead of their defenses and both are coached by offensive minded guys.  The Ravens made a decision to tear down and rebuild their offense to better compliment Jackson.  They added a new OC and made a couple of splash draft/FA signings of offensive skill players.  So after failing to make the playoffs in 2021 and a 1st round ext in 2022 (both years Jackson was hurt) the Ravens made major changes and they're now on the cusp of a SB.

 

 

[Bob Jones]

33 minutes ago, Neo said:

I agree.   Allen definitely took a dive.   Imagine the choreography that went into scripting Jones and Dawkins to bump him milliseconds before the release.    These guys are GOOD!  I imagine the agents and marketing companies were involved, too.   After all, simply throwing a pick in a critical situation would decrease Allen’s contract value at the next signing.  You have to imagine the DBs were also briefed.  You know, leave TWO men open.  Of course their agents, and staffs.  I have been watching football for FIFTY years, and your hypothesis still holds.   I’m waiting for the All 22.   There had to be a lone figure on the grassy knoll scoreboard, in case something went wrong.  You know, a Jack Ruby of sorts in case something went wrong.  A closer, or fail safe.  We’ll know we’re correct if we see Allen driving an unexplainable nice car, or a new stereo or something.  You watch, the losing quarterback in the AFC Championship is going to throw an incompletion, and we’ll have even more evidence.

 

I have to stop, now.   One of my transmitter molars is coming loose and I don’t want to miss an assignment.  I may be sent to discredit some of the “sharps” who had the wrong side of Vegas.  They’ve been edgy since small market Green Bay beat big market Dallas a couple of weeks ago.  Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel.

There only one flaw in your post here...the All-22 reviews have been out since Tuesday...many people have reviews out there, in fact.

 

Other than that, you seem to be spot on!

[BullBuchanan]

On 1/25/2024 at 5:20 PM, HappyDays said:

 

Allen had 4 game winning drives this year (should have been more but whatever). He has 19 in his career.

 

Mahomes had 2 game winning drives this year. He has 16 in his career.

 

Can't wait to see how you try and talk yourself out of this one.

I'm not sure what you think I need to "talk myself out of". My comment wasn't a dunk on Josh Allen, but rather saying that if you give Patrick Mahomes the ball there
with 1:45 left in the game, he's all but guaranteed to win the game. Since you asked for it to be explained to you though, I'll help you out.

First of all, Mahomes has 21 GWD (including 5 postseason)to Allen's 19 GWD(including 0 postseason). Second of all, counting total GWD or 4QC is completely meaningless and is what we call a "vanity metric". In order for it to be valuable, you need to count the percentage of successes vs total opportunities. When you do that, Mahomes is .543 through his first 100 games (only measure of opportunities I could find) which placed him 2nd all time to Tom Brady's insane .570.

Let me know if you need anything else cleared up.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/comeback.cgi?player=MahoPa00
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/comeback.cgi?player=AlleJo02
https://www.365scores.com/news/patrick-mahomes-through-100-starts-the-best-quarterback-ever

[BigDingus]

7 hours ago, billieve420 said:

Then rat face gets embarrassed in the Super Bowl. I could live with that. Mahomes winning another Super Bowl and KC becomes a dynasty.

 

Exactly! I want the Lions or 49ers to win the Super Bowl.

 

I just don't want the Ravens to even get there. If you guys have been listening to sports talk the past week, you probably heard or seen the comments on social media "Mahomes vs Allen isn't the new Brady vs Manning... 0-3 isn't a rivalry!" and "Mahomes vs Lamar is the TRUE rivalry!"

 

I want those people to fall flat on their face. I want the Chiefs to blowout and embarrass the Ravens... If the devastated Bills defense with "turnover machine" Josh Allen take the Chiefs to the wire, but the MVP & amazing Ravens defense lose, maybe people will see stfu and stop pinning everything on Allen.

[Success]

Can anyone remember another QB getting called a "choker" for choosing the wrong open receiver at the end of a game?

 

It's usually reserved for throwing a pick or overthrowing someone who is open.  I can't recall a time when a QB was so criticized for having 2 open guys, and choosing the 1 that would have been a TD.