Josh made the right call to go for the TD

[Green Lightning]

I could not disagree more with the OP. This coaching staff has proven repeatedly to have terrible situational awareness in clutch time. Scoring early would have just been a hope and a prayer that KC would make a mistake as they demolished our D on just about every drive in the second half. Just move the damn chains, burn clock and either score a TD or be much closer for a tying FG. This coach, this team, never seems to learn how to close a game -- and it cost us dearly again.

[Billl]

1 minute ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Josh can't quarterback in fear. He has to trust his guys to do the blocking or he would never get through reads.

Jones wasn't the same at DE, tackles had arm length advantages over him, that's why he has mostly played at DT since the experiment KC tried last year.

That's not accurate at all.  He struggled at setting the edge as a full time DE.  He regularly kicks out from DT to DE on passing downs and dominates. 

 

Having pocket awareness isn't QBing in fear.  It's what the great ones do.  He let his LT get pushed into his lap when there was a perfect pocket available.  I don't understand why people are questioning which open receiver he chose instead of asking why he didn't step into the pocket.

[Allen2Moulds]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I clearly explained why the fans "gut feel" that he would complete it was irrelevant.    He played out of his head in the Eagles game as well and 2 similar throws end up on the turf.   One to Sherfield early and the Gabe one in OT.    You can be OK with the result because you wanted the spectacular completion at the risk of 3rd and 9.......but it wasn't the right move.   That's BEFORE giving the Chiefs the ball back with that much time and 2 timeouts to play 4 down football for the first time all game.  That would have very likely ended just the same as the Eagles game or the 13 seconds game.   The defense had forced a punt only 1 time all game.   The only other possession the Chiefs didn't score on they fumbled at the 1. 

I don't disagree with you, and also preferred that we picked up at least another 1st down. But I think we're talking about optimum outcome, which is different to me. Let's bleed the clock all the way down, and now let's score. Chiefs have been a top defense all year, and after they made some halftime adjustments, yards and points were at a lot higher premium. I don't compare it to the Eagles game for 2 reasons. He took that shot on 3rd down vs. the Eagles. Always been a pet peeve of mine, to throw the ball 40 yds, when you only need.a few to keep the drive going. The 2nd thing is, Gabe and Josh hadn't been on the same page all year. I had a lot more trust in Shakir to be were Josh expected him to be in that moment. All that being said.....I get your point, and can't push back to hard on it.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, Success said:

 

The bolded doesn't compute w/ me.

 

Once you get in the red zone against a good D, nothing is guaranteed.  I swear, if JA did the "small chunks" thing, and we got stopped, or something worse happened (penalty, turnover), pundits would have spent the past few days talking about how he had an easy TD w/ Shakir open in the EZ, and didn't take it when he had the chance.

 

 

 

Yeah, makable field goals aren't guaranteed either.

 

I'm living and dying with Josh Allen in the redzone playing 4 down football there.   And I love those chances.  The offense was grinding the Chiefs vulnerable run and short passing defense down.  Killing them with short gains.   They instead played into the strength of the Chiefs defense.........downfield pass defense.........and as much as people want to claim that was a sure TD pass there isn't nearly enough data this season that suggests that to be the case.   Quite the opposite.

 

Impose your will and win or go out with your boots on.   

 

I'm not giving the Chiefs the ball back until I make them use those timeouts..........and preferably not until there is well under a minute left to move the ball 75 yards.   

 

It's how Parcells and Belichick would have done it.     

 

 

[Simon]

8 minutes ago, Billl said:

He let his LT get pushed into his lap when there was a perfect pocket available.  I don't understand why people are questioning which open receiver he chose instead of asking why he didn't step into the pocket.

 

Because if he adjusts in the pocket the timing is off and the throw is late.

And I'm not exactly sure how Allen let his LT get pushed, but if you had been watching Dawkins for the past month you'd know he has been 100% worthy of Allen's trust. You're simply wrong about a player that you know less about than anybody here.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Josh scores a TD there and we lose. Mahomes beat us with 13 seconds and a far stronger defense.  He would have had a 1:45 and a pile of timeouts.

 

You're probably right based on how the defense played that night.  However, just food for thought, the last two times we played the Chiefs (in KC) we had the lead and Mahomes threw an interception to lose in 2022 and turnover on downs in 2023.  Nothing is guaranteed.

[TheWeatherMan]

3 hours ago, Success said:

I am beyond tired of the national hand-wringing about that play.  It was THERE.  I've actually heard fans argue that what Allen SHOULD have done is to just keep picking up small chunks, and then score a TD with just a few seconds left on the clock.

 

As though you can script something like that perfectly.  Then there is a holding penalty, or sack, or turnover, or you just can't get in the endzone.  Allen saw Shakir wide open for 6, and he went for it.  And, as we all know, if Chris Jones gets there a half second later, that's a TD and we're likely up by 4.

 

I'm like, is that the best that you've got, Allen haters?  The guy plays a great game, should have had at least 100 more yards and another TD if his receivers could hang onto the ball - and you're saying "same ol' Allen" because he went for an OPEN TOUCHDOWN.

 

And I hope Mahomes throws 3 picks this week so we can all see the double-standard.  It won't be nearly as analyzed and dissected.

 

Doesn’t matter.  McD’s defense wasn’t stopping KC.  As long as there was more than a minute left after the Bills scored it was lights out.  

[BBFL]

44 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Then you could argue he made the right call on a similar throw in OT to Gabe against the Eagles.    Blame whoever you want but that ball also ultimately landed well off the mark. 

 

Game lost.  

 

If people are OK with Josh deciding games late by choosing to make throws only he and a handful of others would even attempt...........after proving they could just march their way down in small chunks all game............and as opposed to taking what may be more situationally appropriate like most other QB's would have to.........then that's that fans choice.

 

Honestly,  I'd rather have a spectacular Josh Allen for 10 years and never win a SB and then have to find another QB.........than instead win one SB with a journeyman starter and have a bunch of other run of the mill QB's that I have to watch.    Ideally you get spectacular and SB's........but sometimes superstars and just doing what it takes to win don't align.

 

But I'm not a finish line Bills fan.   My NCAAF team and MLB team have combined for 12 titles during my viewing life so it's not a tragedy to me if the Bills never do.   Being a Bills fan is a lifestyle for me and winning a SB only changes maybe a couple banners or flags I might fly.    That's it.

 

But none of that changes the fact that the decision to hurl that ball 30+ air yards into the end zone on 2nd and 9 just wasn't the right move strategically speaking.    It was the wrong decision on multiple levels.

I feel you on the lifestyle. I’m all in but it’s not the be all-end all of life for me what happens with the team.

 

Statistically it may have been wrong. But the throw was there. Especially after 2 consecutive drives stalling out with one ending in a bizarre choice of fake punt. 
 

More focus needs to be on our #1 letting a 50 yard ball go through both of his hands rather than Josh barely missing a throw. Which if you’re happy for a 10 year career of Josh, you live with. You seem sound enough to know within reason we win and rarely lose games because of him. 
 

 

[Billl]

17 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Because if he adjusts in the pocket the timing is off and the throw is late.

And I'm not exactly sure how Allen let his LT get pushed, but if you had been watching Dawkins for the past month you'd know he has been 100% worthy of Allen's trust. You're simply wrong about a player that you know less about than anybody here.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Because if he adjusts in the pocket the timing is off and the throw is late.

And I'm not exactly sure how Allen let his LT get pushed, but if you had been watching Dawkins for the past month you'd know he has been 100% worthy of Allen's trust. You're simply wrong about a player that you know less about than anybody here.

He can't control his LT getting pushed, but he can make sure he's not standing directly in his path by availing himself of the perfect pocket.  

Edited January 25 by Billl

[Paup 1995MVP]

3 hours ago, Low Positive said:

In retrospect, my least favorite play on that drive was the run up the middle to get to the two-minute warning. It felt like wasting a down when the BIlls didn't have downs to waste. 

On the 3rd down throw out of bounds before attempting the FG, Shakir was wide open in the left flat.  He would have easily gotten the lst down inside the 17 yard line.  Unfortunately Josh was looking and rolling to his right and both of our receivers were completely covered in the rt corner of the endzone.

 

I agree about the run up the middle.  Not good.  We had a 1st down at the 27 with two and a half minutes on the clock.  And ended up w no points, and a big L.  That whole sequence just sucked.  

[Success]

8 minutes ago, Billl said:

 

 

He can't control his LT getting pushed, but he can make sure he's not standing directly in his path by availing himself of the perfect pocket.  

 

That's a good view.  It is clean.

 

I just hate what it's all become in an age when everyone can watch replays in slo mo for days, from every angle, with close-ups & all that - and a bunch of people on a couch can say "why didn't he do this or that?  So easy!"

 

I get that "it's what separates the great ones."  But I've seen the great ones miss big plays, too.  Mahomes missed a guy wide open in the EZ earlier in the game.  Both QB's do what they can in the moment.

 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Billever76 said:

No play is a sure thing...a simple hand off or even kneel down could have negative things happen....but if Dawkins holds his block that's as sure of a td as you will get.....allen doesn't miss that throw without getting contacted just as he was releasing

 

Please refer my initial post regarding that. 

[Simon]

12 minutes ago, Billl said:

 

 

He can't control his LT getting pushed, but he can make sure he's not standing directly in his path by availing himself of the perfect pocket.  

 

You're wasting your time trying to use still photos of active action to try to convince me that Allen is at fault for Chris Jones making a strong play on a LT that Allen rightfully trusts.

[34-78-83]

Comparing the throw to the end zone Gabe option rt throw vs Philly is a little off IMO. On the 2nd and 9 play vs. KC, the read is very clear, and Josh and Shakir are seeing it the same way as Shakir starts his movement to the post (it was not as clear on the Gabe play in Philly). Its pitch and catch, easy peasy, and not a challenging throw (for Josh) if Josh doesn't get bumped. It's also where the overall play design wants the ball to go based on the defensive look and execution. You could argue about if the read numbering is high to low or low to high if you want, sure... and you could argue that a longer developing route will allow for a slightly higher chance of pocket contact, but also why would you when the Chiefs played the way they did and had like 3 pressures all game... I am 100% good with the decision, just wish the bump didn't happen.

[Success]

I'm kind of an old timer.  This kind of nitpicking of every play and nuance in a game simply didn't happen in the ol' days.  

 

The level of scrutiny on JA is at such a ludicrous level.  It adds so much pressure w/ each passing year.  I wouldn't even be able to function w/ that, personally - not sure how anyone plays in front of millions w/ it.

 

[Billl]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

You're wasting your time trying to use still photos of active action to try to convince me that Allen is at fault for Chris Jones making a strong play on a LT that Allen rightfully trusts.

If you think Josh demonstrated good pocket awareness here, then you're right (about it being a waste of time).  I guess Josh's trust for Dawkins means that he should elect to stand in the way of a dog-walking instead of the perfect pocket.

 

I guess I'll let the results of the play speak for itself.

[Simon]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

If you think Josh demonstrated good pocket awareness here, then you're right (about it being a waste of time).  I guess Josh's trust for Dawkins means that he should elect to stand in the way of a dog-walking instead of the perfect pocket.

 

I guess I'll let the results of the play speak for itself.

 

Actually it's more of a waste of time to interact with self-important knuckleheads from other fanbases who think they know more than they do and think it's appropriate to come in and crap on threads with nonsense gibberish in a forum where their presence is marginally tolerable after a season-ending loss.

Read the room, know your role and stay in your lane.

[Brand J]

2 hours ago, Process said:

Yes. You've mentioned that many times. 

 

If it's 4th and 1 or 2 the bills 100% are going for it. I don't think you've grasped that. And if you watch the play Shakir had one guy to beat for the first, he is good at making guys miss. I think he gets it. 

Not to mention Kincaid had a good chance to run for the first if the ball was on him right after his break.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, BBFL said:

I feel you on the lifestyle. I’m all in but it’s not the be all-end all of life for me what happens with the team.

 

Statistically it may have been wrong. But the throw was there. Especially after 2 consecutive drives stalling out with one ending in a bizarre choice of fake punt. 
 

More focus needs to be on our #1 letting a 50 yard ball go through both of his hands rather than Josh barely missing a throw. Which if you’re happy for a 10 year career of Josh, you live with. You seem sound enough to know within reason we win and rarely lose games because of him. 
 

 

 

 

I'm with you on Diggs not catching that ball.   If they were going to be taking shot plays like that 2nd and 9 without concern about giving the Chiefs the last possession.........well, hitting that pass at the 8 minute mark would have helped because they might have been able to score with 6 minutes or so left and then have the ball again at the end if the Chiefs had then scored.    

 

The Chiefs were gouging the Bills defense at a near historic rate in that game so it wouldn't have taken them more than 3-4 minutes max to score a TD if they knew that was likely their last possession.  

 

Once the clock got down under 4 minutes the strategy needed to turn to "make this the last possession of the game".     I think to most that seemed to be the objective.

 

But regarding Diggs specifically.........he may be washed........but they almost got 4 GREAT years out of Diggs.   

 

1st round contracts are 4 years cheap and then an option for an expensive season.    They gave away a little more than that in trade but they got good value for the basic value of those picks.

 

Just sucks that the 22nd pick in the 2020 draft ended up being Jefferson and not one of the 4 people selected before him or 2 after.   And that the cap strapped Bills felt compelled to extend him.   I was not in favor of extending him early but in getting a fairly complicated personality in Diggs they weren't going to be able to get by letting him get to his walk year so they probably would have extended him this past offseason even if they declined to do so in spring of 2022.

 

The mistake they made was not addressing WR in the draft before and after the Diggs trade.   That put them in the position to need to trade for him and then to have to extend him.   

 

 

Edited January 25 by BADOLBILZ

[John from Riverside]

I don’t have a problem with the throw to the end zone. That’s Josh being Josh you can’t love people in slices you have to take the whole pie

 

We lost that game because we were decimated on defense with injuries as simple as that