Josh made the right call to go for the TD

[Billever76]

15 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

It obviously wasn’t a sure thing. If it was then it would have been a TD. 

No play is a sure thing...a simple hand off or even kneel down could have negative things happen....but if Dawkins holds his block that's as sure of a td as you will get.....allen doesn't miss that throw without getting contacted just as he was releasing

[st pete gogolak]

You know what would have been a great call on 2nd and 9?  A screen pass to Cook.  Safe play, would have killed clock even if it didn’t go anywhere, potential to break big. 
 

Plus, it would have caught the Chiefs totally by surprise because we haven’t run a GD RB screen all GD season.

[Simon]

40 minutes ago, Process said:

Yes. You've mentioned that many times. 

 

 

Yeah, I believe that is now the second time I have mentioned it in regards to a play that hasn't been discussed much.

The first time was right after the game.  "On third down they had three guys running crossers short of the sticks so Allen held it rolling out and ran out of real estate."

Sorry about that; hope you can forgive my relentless crusade of two posts in one week.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Process said:

If it's 4th and 1 or 2 the bills 100% are going for it. I don't think you've grasped that.

 

Despite your assumption of my stupidity, I'm well aware of what the Bills would have done on 4th and short. 

I'm also well aware of the exceedingly large volume of plays Allen has made outside the pocket in critical situations, particularly moving to his right,  and am glad he made an effort to extend the play and not just get rid of it and put the Bills in a 4th down situation. A situation that would have been anywhere between 4th/2 and 4th/9.

[BBFL]

21 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I mean the whole game in totality. Are we really gonna argue over 2 drives that we got lucky enough to not give up 7 or 8 yards a play? The only 2 drives that we gave up nothing on was that fumble out of the endzone which again, had a 35 yard run play to get down there and then one other defensive drive to stop them. Were you watching something else. It was back and forth all game for both offenses. We had the lead at halftime 17-13. What did the Chiefs do the first drive I. The second half? They scored a TD in like 7 plays. The next Chiefs drive, you guessed it another TD. The Chiefs only had to attempt 5 3rd downs all night long because most of the time they were getting enough yardage on first and second down to not need a 3rd down. If you are ok with the night our defense had, getting no pass rush, missing multiple starters and getting gashed MOSTLY all night and giving Mahomes 1:55 and 2 timeouts to work with, I have to question your sanity

JFC. Come on man… 

 

They played like sh-t and stopped them on 2 of their final drives is simply my point. That immediately gives them confidence. 

 

I even told you I agreed with your post with one exception. Literally implied by the “waxing the floor” verbiage I used. 
 

But for arguments sake…

You live in a deluded reality if that’s what you got from my posts. I didn’t state or imply that I am ok with any play the defense made all night just that your “all night” was prior to the fumble out the EZ. 
 

The defense made plays on 2 drives…

1) to stop KC going up a guaranteed 10; they weren’t kicking a FG if we stopped them on 3rd and goal from the 1. 

2) to keep them only up by 3 

 

Ive played sports competitively in a Pro-Am level… American Football and Soccer. Winning or losing, It is how you end a game that matters.

 

 

Edited January 25 by BBFL

[Eastport bills]

1 hour ago, Success said:

I am beyond tired of the national hand-wringing about that play.  It was THERE.  I've actually heard fans argue that what Allen SHOULD have done is to just keep picking up small chunks, and then score a TD with just a few seconds left on the clock.

 

As though you can script something like that perfectly.  Then there is a holding penalty, or sack, or turnover, or you just can't get in the endzone.  Allen saw Shakir wide open for 6, and he went for it.  And, as we all know, if Chris Jones gets there a half second later, that's a TD and we're likely up by 4.

 

I'm like, is that the best that you've got, Allen haters?  The guy plays a great game, should have had at least 100 more yards and another TD if his receivers could hang onto the ball - and you're saying "same ol' Allen" because he went for an OPEN TOUCHDOWN.

 

And I hope Mahomes throws 3 picks this week so we can all see the double-standard.  It won't be nearly as analyzed and dissected.

 

100% agreement but try and convince exhausting second guess geniuses. Always try and denigrate a performance that overcame a undermanned defense that couldn’t stop a running game and had wide open receivers all night. Why would an ultra conservative HC try a fake punt at his own 30? He had zero confidence we could stop Mahomes. So Josh leads 4 heroic drives with no regard for his body or health despite no separation by his receivers downfield and 3 drops on game changing pass plays,for scores , and with a frustrating miss of an open receiver after being jostled by Jones, settles for a game tying FG. The mindless criticism of a truly heroic performance for one play, discourages objective people from taking “expert observations “ seriously. It’s like partisans attached to political parties acknowledging weakness. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

2 hours ago, Success said:

I am beyond tired of the national hand-wringing about that play.  It was THERE.  I've actually heard fans argue that what Allen SHOULD have done is to just keep picking up small chunks, and then score a TD with just a few seconds left on the clock.

 

As though you can script something like that perfectly.  Then there is a holding penalty, or sack, or turnover, or you just can't get in the endzone.  Allen saw Shakir wide open for 6, and he went for it.  And, as we all know, if Chris Jones gets there a half second later, that's a TD and we're likely up by 4.

 

I'm like, is that the best that you've got, Allen haters?  The guy plays a great game, should have had at least 100 more yards and another TD if his receivers could hang onto the ball - and you're saying "same ol' Allen" because he went for an OPEN TOUCHDOWN.

 

And I hope Mahomes throws 3 picks this week so we can all see the double-standard.  It won't be nearly as analyzed and dissected.

 

 

OK...I think this take might get me roasted but...

 

Are you out of your mother loving mind with this take? Are you high? Tell me you got high as a kite as you wrote this so I can ask where  you get your stuff.

 

First off, calling it Allen hate? Josh Allen had overall a fantastic game. Josh Allen is not the reason the Bills lost that game. The reason the Bills lost that game is that throughout the game the defense held up as well as a wet paper bag holding a bowling ball. The Chiefs punted once in that game. Once. On the previous drive. I don't have the exact number, but I think the Chiefs had an 8-0 advantage on 20+ yard plays. AJ Klein was covering a HOF tight end. 

 

With that said, the methodology of how the Bills were moving the ball was clear. They had spent about six minutes taking what the defense gave them. The offense was clicking, with blitz beaters to Kincaid for 3 catches for 21 yards. Time was ticking. Every run or completion is 40 seconds off the clock or a Chiefs timeout. You do that twice when you're not even in the red zone yet and even if you need to kick a field goal the defense should be able to hold. If you want to credit Allen for his skills as a field marshall, then this is something fundamental that he knows.

 

So when the choices are "quick checkdown to a wide open Stef Diggs that is almost certainly a first down and if not makes the Schnowplow a reasonable option to go for it. The worst that happens is he drops it." or "gun a dart 25 yards into the end zone" where the best case scenario is that Mahomes has 1:55 and two timeouts against said tissue paper defense?

 

What gives you the best odds of winning the game are not even close. And it boggled my mind that people don't seem to understand this. Now, if Allen makes it I am still cheering, but I will think the exact same thing when Gabe Davis scored the go ahead in almost the same position in 2021: oh no, we gave them too much time.

 

What on Earth makes you think that our defense would fare any better this time?

[Buffalo03]

18 minutes ago, BBFL said:

JFC. Come on man… 

 

They played like sh-t and stopped them on 2 of their final drives is simply my point. That immediately gives them confidence. 

 

I even told you I agreed with your post with one exception. Literally implied by the “waxing the floor” verbiage I used. 
 

But for arguments sake…

You live in a deluded reality if that’s what you got from my posts. I didn’t state or imply that I am ok with any play the defense made all night just that your “all night” was prior to the fumble out the EZ. 
 

The defense made plays on 2 drives…

1) to stop KC going up a guaranteed 10; they weren’t kicking a FG if we stopped them on 3rd and goal from the 1. 

2) to keep them only up by 3 

 

Ive played sports competitively in a Pro-Am level… American Football and Soccer. Winning or losing, It is how you end a game that matters.

 

 

It was 2 drives. One of which they got extremely lucky on. The Chiefs punted ONE time all night. Their drives were FG, FG, TD, TD, TD, Fumble (after a 35 yard run to get to the 1), Punt, gashed our defense the final to run plays to seal it. Yet, you are ok with Mahomes having 1:55 with 2 TOs, no pass rush and multiple injuries? I have no words, man. You're nuts

[BADOLBILZ]

25 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

he made the right read in the play call

 

in theory the system/play call should have dictated the read be a smaller chunk probably, given that we just milked the clock to two minutes though. 
 

it wasn’t a bad play, but strategically the coaches didn’t sync the clock management and play calling strategy together well

 

 

Then you could argue he made the right call on a similar throw in OT to Gabe against the Eagles.    Blame whoever you want but that ball also ultimately landed well off the mark. 

 

Game lost.  

 

If people are OK with Josh deciding games late by choosing to make throws only he and a handful of others would even attempt...........after proving they could just march their way down in small chunks all game............and as opposed to taking what may be more situationally appropriate like most other QB's would have to.........then that's that fans choice.

 

Honestly,  I'd rather have a spectacular Josh Allen for 10 years and never win a SB and then have to find another QB.........than instead win one SB with a journeyman starter and have a bunch of other run of the mill QB's that I have to watch.    Ideally you get spectacular and SB's........but sometimes superstars and just doing what it takes to win don't align.

 

But I'm not a finish line Bills fan.   My NCAAF team and MLB team have combined for 12 titles during my viewing life so it's not a tragedy to me if the Bills never do.   Being a Bills fan is a lifestyle for me and winning a SB only changes maybe a couple banners or flags I might fly.    That's it.

 

But none of that changes the fact that the decision to hurl that ball 30+ air yards into the end zone on 2nd and 9 just wasn't the right move strategically speaking.    It was the wrong decision on multiple levels.

[Allen2Moulds]

38 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

So if Chris Jones wasn't a known great pass rusher.........and if Josh completed a specific throw that he has turfed for various reasons in big situations this season even WITHOUT significant pressure.........and completed a throw for more air yards than any other completion of his in the game and more air yards than any Shakir completion all season..........then it was definitely a TD?

 

If you are going to live in the land of make believe that's your prerogative,  but it was a low % completion throw based on all of the most recent Josh/Bills 

I think most of us are basing it off of how he was playing. Playoff Josh is more accurate. Look at the prior deep throws that same game, 2 of them were spot on, and the the 3rd was catchable. The DB wasn't draped to Shakir, it would've been uncontested. No argument that the end result wasn't good, but the decision was right. Especially because it was second down, and we still had a shot at getting the 1st down. I know I could get flamed for this, but based on what we had been seeing from Bass, and how poorly our defense played that night, I  would've preferred going for it on 4th down.  As soon as I saw the kicking team, I knew it was over, whether he made it or not. 

Edited January 25 by Allen2Moulds

[Billl]

This discussion completely misses the point.  The decision was 100% correct.  It was Josh's execution that was poor.  Had he simply slid into the massive pocket to his right, that's a TD. 

 

As talented as he is, Josh still has room for improvement when it comes to the subtleties of QB play.  There's no way  Brady or Manning stands still and lets himself get bumped by his LT when there's a perfect pocket to be had.

[Success]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Then you could argue he made the right call on a similar throw in OT to Gabe against the Eagles.    Blame whoever you want but that ball also ultimately landed well off the mark. 

 

Game lost.  

 

If people are OK with Josh deciding games late by choosing to make throws only he and a handful of others would even attempt...........after proving they could just march their way down in small chunks all game............and as opposed to taking what may be more situationally appropriate like most other QB's would have to.........then that's that fans choice.

 

Honestly,  I'd rather have a spectacular Josh Allen for 10 years and never win a SB and then have to find another QB.........than instead win one SB with a journeyman starter and have a bunch of other run of the mill QB's that I have to watch.    Ideally you get spectacular and SB's........but sometimes superstars and just doing what it takes to win don't align.

 

But I'm not a finish line Bills fan.   My NCAAF team and MLB team have combined for 12 titles during my viewing life so it's not a tragedy to me if the Bills never do.   Being a Bills fan is a lifestyle for me and winning a SB only changes maybe a couple banners or flags I might fly.    That's it.

 

But none of that changes the fact that the decision to hurl that ball 30+ air yards into the end zone on 2nd and 9 just wasn't the right move strategically speaking.    It was the wrong decision on multiple levels.

 

The bolded doesn't compute w/ me.

 

Once you get in the red zone against a good D, nothing is guaranteed.  I swear, if JA did the "small chunks" thing, and we got stopped, or something worse happened (penalty, turnover), pundits would have spent the past few days talking about how he had an easy TD w/ Shakir open in the EZ, and didn't take it when he had the chance.

 

[FireChans]

If anyone has ever played Madden, you know you can’t score there. I thought Josh was a Madden guy. 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

This discussion completely misses the point.  The decision was 100% correct.  It was Josh's execution that was poor.  Had he simply slid into the massive pocket to his right, that's a TD. 

 

As talented as he is, Josh still has room for improvement when it comes to the subtleties of QB play.  There's no way  Brady or Manning stands still and lets himself get bumped by his LT when there's a perfect pocket to be had.

Unfortunately that slide probably throws the timing off, so Shakir is not in the window at that time. 

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Then you could argue he made the right call on a similar throw in OT to Gabe against the Eagles.    Blame whoever you want but that ball also ultimately landed well off the mark. 

 

Game lost.  

 

If people are OK with Josh deciding games late by choosing to make throws only he and a handful of others would even attempt...........after proving they could just march their way down in small chunks all game............and as opposed to taking what may be more situationally appropriate like most other QB's would have to.........then that's that fans choice.

 

Honestly,  I'd rather have a spectacular Josh Allen for 10 years and never win a SB and then have to find another QB.........than instead win one SB with a journeyman starter and have a bunch of other run of the mill QB's that I have to watch.    Ideally you get spectacular and SB's........but sometimes superstars and just doing what it takes to win don't align.

 

But I'm not a finish line Bills fan.   My NCAAF team and MLB team have combined for 12 titles during my viewing life so it's not a tragedy to me if the Bills never do.   Being a Bills fan is a lifestyle for me and winning a SB only changes maybe a couple banners or flags I might fly.    That's it.

 

But none of that changes the fact that the decision to hurl that ball 30+ air yards into the end zone on 2nd and 9 just wasn't the right move strategically speaking.    It was the wrong decision on multiple levels.

I enjoy Josh throwing a dart to win the game- and am totally here for it in the right context. 
 

my gripe is I call that play at 2:30 to go instead of burning clock to try to give mahomes the ball with 1:50 left 

 

either we play for that to be our last possession or we play for getting the ball back after a chiefs drive… to milk it down to giving the chiefs the last touch seemed like a much bigger fail than throwing that pass in general 

[Simon]

5 minutes ago, Billl said:

This discussion completely misses the point.  The decision was 100% correct.  It was Josh's execution that was poor.  Had he simply slid into the massive pocket to his right, that's a TD. 

 

As talented as he is, Josh still has room for improvement when it comes to the subtleties of QB play.  There's no way  Brady or Manning stands still and lets himself get bumped by his LT when there's a perfect pocket to be had.

 

If he slides right, the throw is late.

Trusting his All-Pro tackle to hold his backside block, which he does 99% of the time, was perfectly acceptable.

[Billl]

1 minute ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Unfortunately that slide probably throws the timing off, so Shakir is not in the window at that time. 

No it wouldn't have.  He didn't have to wait until an all Pro pass rusher has pushed the LT into his lap to slide into the pocket.  It was poor pocket management.  

 

Throwing it to Shakir was the correct play.  Throwing it to Diggs would have also been a perfectly reasonable decision.  Standing still while an elite pass rusher wrecks the play was the issue.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I think most of us are basing it off of how he was playing. Playoff Josh is more accurate. Look at the prior deep throws that same game, 2 of them were spot on the the 3rd was catchable. The DB wasn't draped to Shakira, it would've been uncontested. No argument that the end result wasn't good, but the decision was right. Especially because it was second down, and we still had a shot at getting the 1st down. I know I could get flamed for this, but based on what we had been seeing from Bass, and how poorly our defense played that night, I  would've preferred going for it on 4th down.

 

 

I clearly explained why the fans "gut feel" that he would complete it was irrelevant.    He played out of his head in the Eagles game as well and 2 similar throws end up on the turf.   One to Sherfield early and the Gabe one in OT.    You can be OK with the result because you wanted the spectacular completion at the risk of 3rd and 9.......but it wasn't the right move.   That's BEFORE giving the Chiefs the ball back with that much time and 2 timeouts to play 4 down football for the first time all game.  That would have very likely ended just the same as the Eagles game or the 13 seconds game.   The defense had forced a punt only 1 time all game.   The only other possession the Chiefs didn't score on they fumbled at the 1. 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

Just now, Billl said:

No it wouldn't have.  He didn't have to wait until an all Pro pass rusher has pushed the LT into his lap to slide into the pocket.  It was poor pocket management.  

 

Throwing it to Shakir was the correct play.  Throwing it to Diggs would have also been a perfectly reasonable decision.  Standing still while an elite pass rusher wrecks the play was the issue.

Disagree. I think as a qb that's tough to determine where the pass rush is while going through your reads. It didn't help that it was a bull rush so Josh didn't have the advantage of seeing the jersey color in his peripheral vision. By the time he felt the pressure it was time to throw the ball.

 

Dawkins has had problems anchoring on the past, just unfortunate he could not hold up for another 1/2 second.

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

If he slides right, the throw is late.

Trusting his All-Pro tackle to hold his backside block, which he does 99% of the time, was perfectly acceptable.

There isn't a tackle in the league who can consistently stone Chris Jones without help.  And Dawkins, while good, is certainly not elite while Jones is first team all Pro.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

Just now, Billl said:

There isn't a tackle in the league who can consistently stone Chris Jones without help.  And Dawkins, while good, is certainly not elite while Jones is first team all Pro.

Josh can't quarterback in fear. He has to trust his guys to do the blocking or he would never get through reads.

Jones wasn't the same at DE, tackles had arm length advantages over him, that's why he has mostly played at DT since the experiment KC tried last year.