Ryan O'Halloran - Bills should go Defense Heavy in draft

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Simon said:

 

At no point in the history of football has S ever been more important than DT.

If the Bills don't find a way to retain Daquan Jones, they have seriously ***** up, imo.

 

No but we have a DT who is one of the best players on our team. That was why I ranked it lower. 

[Simon]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No but we have a DT who is one of the best players on our team. That was why I ranked it lower. 

 

I just think that position group is so important (and prone to injury) that you need multiple guys you can count on there.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Get Sauce Gardner.  Pay him whatever he wants.  He holds with impunity. 😁

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Heavy defense is a mistake.  WR, x2, and Safeties

We need DT in a bad way.  Maybe DE too. 
 

DL >>>>>>>>>>>>>  s

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

We need DT in a bad way.  Maybe DE too. 
 

DL >>>>>>>>>>>>>  s

I think that DL is a more impactful position but S in McDermott’s scheme is crucial. The ability of Hyde/Poyer to disguise and limit big plays is why the Bills defense has been good for years. They need really good to elite players in the back.  They probably have to commit a top 100(ish) pick ln a safety that they plan to start (depending on FA). They need more quality rotational players on the DL. If they re-sign Jones (as I expect) and Floyd (as I hope) they are looking for rotational players. 

[SoMAn]

What turned around the results for the Dolphins and the Ravens? Adding weapons. Receivers. What caused the Chiefs to struggle (relatively speaking) more than in the past?

 

When a team is spending 50 million a year on a QB, he's got to have weapons to make the most of that investment.

 

A second tier one WR could be the catalyst to make the passing game more effective. Go ahead, double Stef. We dare you. At some point another top receiver will create mismatches. 

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that DL is a more impactful position but S in McDermott’s scheme is crucial. The ability of Hyde/Poyer to disguise and limit big plays is why the Bills defense has been good for years. They need really good to elite players in the back.  They probably have to commit a top 100(ish) pick ln a safety that they plan to start (depending on FA). They need more quality rotational players on the DL. If they re-sign Jones (as I expect) and Floyd (as I hope) they are looking for rotational players. 

I remember how great our D was with Poyer and Hyde in 2020 when we had a crappy DL.  
 

I agree that S is important in McDs system- but McD is also pretty good at making chicken salad out of chicken s*** at the position.  The same cannot be said for the DL.

 

if we go S first, I think we’ll regret it

[Jay_Fixit]

If it’s BPA then sure. But I’d really like to see a WR drafted high. I like toys.

[HappyDays]

I am going into next year assuming that the Diggs we got down the stretch is just who Diggs is now. If he gets back to the elite WR he was, great. But I think the Bills have to assume the worst and plan accordingly.

 

With that in mind, they have so badly mismanaged the WR room that I think they need to come away from this draft with two different types of WR - one with elite speed, and one with true alpha X receiver potential. And I don't mean some late round flyer. Get two high end WR prospects in this draft. Increase the odds that you come out of the draft with a true home run at the position. Enough is enough.

 

Having researched the WR prospects as much as I could this week, my preferred draft outcome is Troy Franklin in R1, and then one of Ja'Lynn Polk or Brenden Rice in R2. That gets us the elite speed guy, and then a true outside WR with alpha traits that hopefully develop further.

 

How about this offense heading into 2024:

 

WR1 Diggs

WR2 Franklin

WR3 Shakir

WR4 Polk/Rice

TE1 Kincaid

TE2 Knox

RB1 Cook

 

Now we are really getting somewhere.

 

Probably will add a cheaper veteran WR too, someone like Noah Brown to round out the room.

[Kirby Jackson]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I remember how great our D was with Poyer and Hyde in 2020 when we had a crappy DL.  
 

I agree that S is important in McDs system- but McD is also pretty good at making chicken salad out of chicken s*** at the position.  The same cannot be said for the DL.

 

if we go S first, I think we’ll regret it

The Bills have committed resources to DL (1st on Oliver, 1st on Rousseau, 2nd on Epenesa, 2nd on Basham, huge contract to Von, decent late contracts to Floyd & Ford). They haven’t had to commit resources to S because they have 2 guys that belong in the WOF for 7 years. The defense revolves around them. They need a high end player there. Next to WR it is their biggest need. They can’t just have bodies back there.

 

 

[colin]

16 hours ago, Cash said:

 

I respectfully disagree.  With the game on the line, we couldn't score, despite having the best or 2nd-best QB in the league.  I also think that loading up on defense to try to stop the Reid/Mahomes combo is a fool's errand in some ways - when they need a score, they're almost always going to get it.

 

Yes, our offensive numbers were good, but we shouldn't be 30 yards less than "the top teams", we should BE the top team.  I'm sick of seeing dropped passes and receivers not on the same page with our QB.  I'm sick of losing to the Chiefs or Bengals because they put a spy on Josh and dare our receivers to win 1 on 1 matchups.  Let's go get some more guys who will consistently win those 1 on 1s.  That doesn't mean we need superstars everywhere, but our WR room was a major disappointment down the stretch, except for Shakir.  Diggs turned into a shell of himself, Davis was a trainwreck then got hurt, Harty made a couple nice plays but was mostly invisible, and Sherfield is a nice 5th WR/special teamer, but shouldn't be starting a playoff game.

 

With that said, I'm pretty happy with the state of the O-line (but you can always use more depth there - we got really lucky with O-line injuries last year), the TE room if Knox stays, and the RB room.  My assumption is that they'll bring in a bigger back to complement Cook, either late in the draft or on the vet minimum.

 

Defensively, they'll need to devote at least some of the draft there for sure.  We're going to lose a lot of bodies on the D-line and one always needs depth in the secondary.  I actually think our LBs are great if they get & stay healthy - Bernard & Milano starting, Spector & Williams backing them up.  I expect a mid-round pick (4th or later) at LB.

 

 

i agree.

 

while we might pick d players, and they might be great picks, i think we have to come away from this offseason addressing wr in both the draft and if possible FA.

 

said another way -- some bargain guys and late round draft picks filling out our roster could get us the same deffensive performance we had vs kc, namely a trash one.  just one more wr at the top, and or a couple wrs filling out the list instead of 16 and 11, and we score 10+ more points and walk away winners. 

[Bruffalo]

 

That's all I can think when I hear someone saying any team should go "defensive heavy in the draft".  

 

Defenses in the NFL are at an inherent disadvantage with the way the modern NFL is structured.  The game skews heavily towards the offense.

 

You know what an amazing defense gets you? The Steelers.  A wildcard entry to the playoffs and an early exit. 

 

The best way to win in the NFL is through relentless scoring via chunk plays and strikes.  It's demoralizing and has a serious psychological effect on the other team, which I think is understated. 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The Bills have committed resources to DL (1st on Oliver, 1st on Rousseau, 2nd on Epenesa, 2nd on Basham, huge contract to Von, decent late contracts to Floyd & Ford). They haven’t had to commit resources to S because they have 2 guys that belong in the WOF for 7 years. The defense revolves around them. They need a high end player there. Next to WR it is their biggest need. They can’t just have bodies back there.

 

 

“S is more important that pass rush”- said nobody ever except you right now 

 

I don’t care what resources we’ve used in the past. I care about what we will have on the field in 2024z.  Right now, we have 1 DT.  We also have one (legit) S.  
 

It’s much easier to get good S play for pennies and lesser draft capital than it is to get the same for DL.  
 

McD had lots of success with aging Kurt Coleman, Thomas Decoud, Tre Boston and aging Roman Harper.  He doesn’t “need” stars at safety.  He’s capable of turning average players in solid pieces. 

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I am going into next year assuming that the Diggs we got down the stretch is just who Diggs is now. If he gets back to the elite WR he was, great. But I think the Bills have to assume the worst and plan accordingly.

 

With that in mind, they have so badly mismanaged the WR room that I think they need to come away from this draft with two different types of WR - one with elite speed, and one with true alpha X receiver potential. And I don't mean some late round flyer. Get two high end WR prospects in this draft. Increase the odds that you come out of the draft with a true home run at the position. Enough is enough.

 

Having researched the WR prospects as much as I could this week, my preferred draft outcome is Troy Franklin in R1, and then one of Ja'Lynn Polk or Brenden Rice in R2. That gets us the elite speed guy, and then a true outside WR with alpha traits that hopefully develop further.

 

How about this offense heading into 2024:

 

WR1 Diggs

WR2 Franklin

WR3 Shakir

WR4 Polk/Rice

TE1 Kincaid

TE2 Knox

RB1 Cook

 

Now we are really getting somewhere.

 

Probably will add a cheaper veteran WR too, someone like Noah Brown to round out the room.

Drafting Polk in rd 2 is my dream this year

[Mr. WEO]

need new safeties.  these two are slow and old

[Mango]

I think we’ll see a heavy defensive draft in terms of quantity of picks. 
 

I have a sneaking suspicion that we won’t draft our first round pick at 28. We will move up for a WR or move back because we don’t have a great grade on what is left on board.
 

One of the two first picks will be a WR.

I also think we’ll take a flyer on a WR in the mid to late rounds as well. Outside of funding an OC or RT to come in and develop behind Brown/Morse I don’t know what other offense we’d take high. 

 

But we also need a couple of DE, DL depth, and a tandem of Safeties with minimal cap space. 

[Kirby Jackson]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

“S is more important that pass rush”- said nobody ever except you right now 

 

I don’t care what resources we’ve used in the past. I care about what we will have on the field in 2024z.  Right now, we have 1 DT.  We also have one (legit) S.  
 

It’s much easier to get good S play for pennies and lesser draft capital than it is to get the same for DL.  
 

McD had lots of success with aging Kurt Coleman, Thomas Decoud, Tre Boston and aging Roman Harper.  He doesn’t “need” stars at safety.  He’s capable of turning average players in solid pieces. 

Drafting Polk in rd 2 is my dream this year

Please quote where I said that. Hint: you’re going to be looking for a while

 

 

[Brandon]

25 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

 

That's all I can think when I hear someone saying any team should go "defensive heavy in the draft".  

 

Defenses in the NFL are at an inherent disadvantage with the way the modern NFL is structured.  The game skews heavily towards the offense.

 

You know what an amazing defense gets you? The Steelers.  A wildcard entry to the playoffs and an early exit. 

 

The best way to win in the NFL is through relentless scoring via chunk plays and strikes.  It's demoralizing and has a serious psychological effect on the other team, which I think is understated. 

 

Agreed,  and I've been saying that for the last two or three offseasons.  At some point during a playoff run,  you're going to run into an offense/QB that has the capability to drop 30+ points on anyone,  especially in the AFC.  But sure,  you can somewhat reliably limit those offenses if you can also find two or three All Pros drafting late in R1...good luck with that. 

Edited January 25 by Brandon

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Please quote where I said that. Hint: you’re going to be looking for a while

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The Bills have committed resources to DL (1st on Oliver, 1st on Rousseau, 2nd on Epenesa, 2nd on Basham, huge contract to Von, decent late contracts to Floyd & Ford). They haven’t had to commit resources to S because they have 2 guys that belong in the WOF for 7 years. The defense revolves around them. They need a high end player there. Next to WR it is their biggest need. They can’t just have bodies back there.

 

 

Didn’t take long-  the defense revolves around the safeties……

 

no- it doesn’t. It revolves around great DL play.  

 

I get what you’re saying- It’ll be tough to find a bigger backer of the Poyer and Hyde tandem than me. I know and appreciate how important they are.  I also know that it didn’t take top 100 picks or massive contracts to acquire and groom them.  Poyer was a jag that McD turned into a star.  Hyde was a decent investment but was no all pro until McD got him.  Spending resources properly is more important than ever and having DL on rookie deals.  
 

When we miss on the DL signings and picks- our defense suffers.  When we don’t have a pass rush- our defense is nothing vs good offenses (aka playoff teams).  
 

agree to disagree 

[Bob in STL]

17 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Kincaid is a great weapon that needs to be used more in the offense, but he's never going to be fast enough to fill that other hole we have on offense we need another guy.

We really need speed at WR. 
 

I think a prime pick has to go WR to complement Diggs, especially with Davis likely gone.  Once Diggs goes this pick could hopefully fill the void. 

[Brandon]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

Didn’t take long-  the defense revolves around the safeties……

 

no- it doesn’t. It revolves around great DL play.  

 

I get what you’re saying- It’ll be tough to find a bigger backer of the Poyer and Hyde tandem than me. I know and appreciate how important they are.  I also know that it didn’t take top 100 picks or massive contracts to acquire and groom them.  Poyer was a jag that McD turned into a star.  Hyde was a decent investment but was no all pro until McD got him.  Spending resources properly is more important than ever and having DL on rookie deals.  
 

When we miss on the DL signings and picks- our defense suffers.  When we don’t have a pass rush- our defense is nothing vs good offenses (aka playoff teams).  
 

agree to disagree 

 

Yeah,  I agree with that.  Beane and McDermott have openly stated an objective to have a dominant DL since they were brought in.  They saw how the Giants beat the Pats in the Super Bowl and that's what they want to be. 

 

Of course,  that was a decade ago.  In reality,  I think they're a day late and a dollar short on their objective,  but whatever. 

Edited January 25 by Brandon