Mix and match Allen/Mahomes and Reid/McDermott

[Mikie2times]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

 

Apologies. When you wrote “if it's not Allen, which at one point I sort of felt, but no longer do, it's Sean”… I thought you meant you thought Allen was the problem but now think it’s Sean. 

Historically I have not felt Allen was at the level most here did. Which for most on here is ahead of Mahomes. He's just so unorthodox. So I sort of got tired debating the nuances of what I feel he could do better vs just enjoying him and the team. 

[90sBills]

8 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

30 other teams WISH they had Allen.

 

29. Best believe Cincy would not trade Burrow for Allen. 

11 minutes ago, Success said:

KC fans talk about Allen the exact same way that Pats fans talked about Manning for years.

 

It's not just that "Mahomes is better." Josh Allen has to be total trash.  No in-between.  No, 'oh, they always have great games, and both are great, but to this point Mahomes has gotten the better of it.'

 

It's lame.  Now, of course, Pats fans hype Manning up - because they want to make it seem like Brady had some resistance on the way to "greatness."

 

The KC fans that I know think Allen is top 3. They think Burrow is #2. Any KC fans that think Allen is trash would be comparable to Bills fans thinking Allen is better than Mahomes. Both opinions are lacking objectively. 

[Success]

5 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

29. Best believe Cincy would not trade Burrow for Allen. 

The KC fans that I know think Allen is top 3. They think Burrow is #2. Any KC fans that think Allen is trash would be comparable to Bills fans thinking Allen is better than Mahomes. Both opinions are lacking objectively. 

 

I shouldn't generalize like that. I'm sure that's true.

 

I'd amend my remarks to "quite a few online fans."  And I get that they're a different demographic than the whole of a fanbase.

 

[NewEra]

I think Josh would have at least one SB ring- maybe 4.

 

i don’t think Rat would have any

[HappyDays]

44 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So why can’t bills fans stop trying to dismiss that he is truly all time great.

 

When have I dismissed this?

[BullBuchanan]

6 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

I never thought he was the problem. He is the only reason we are where we are. 

Andy Reid went 20 years without winning a Super Bowl. His playoff record was was 11-13. KC drafted Mahomes, since that time he has two Super Bowl wins and is 13-3 in the playoffs.

 

You want me to believe your anecdotal based on nothing story about how the above happened? I bet you still want Sean as HC.  

"Anecdotal based on nothing"?

Son, I put out cold hard stats out there that you're blindly choosing to ignore. Andy Reid has one of, if not the most the most impressive coaching resumes in history. Are you Alex Smith?

[BullBuchanan]

6 hours ago, Lost said:

 

While I don't disagree that Mahomes mentally is more steadfast than Allen.   We all know winning breeds confidence and confidence elevates standard of play.   What if it was Allen that was nurtured into a winning organization to begin and went to AFCCG his first season as starter?   If Mahomes started out on a middling team with all new coaching staff and had a bumpy start the first year or two, who knows if his confidence level would have ever elevated to where it is now.  

I don't think it's a confidence problem. Allen has tons of confidence. What he lacks is judgement, real-time processing speed, and perhaps even a football IQ.

I often feel like Allen is the most athletic guy on the field. I almost never once think he's the smartest - even if maybe he is. Mahomes on the other hand seem to play the game like a modern Manning or Brady. He seems to know exactly what's going on all the time, even if he doesn't necessarily. Maybe it's just poise.  Allen can get ice in his veins as he stands in the pocket during a two minute drill and shreds a defense, but he doesn't have that calm about him that I see in the best of the best and I attribute that to being able to see everything and know exactly what's going to happen - as opposed to just confidence.

[Brand J]

Allen is a great player, most likely a future HOFer, but Mahomes is Michael Jordan in cleats. There’s no one in the league that plays the position better than that guy. I don’t think Josh could’ve taken the same KC team with those subpar weapons and made the AFCCG. 

We went from Tom Brady abusing us for over a decade, to Mahomes sending us home in the playoffs every time the two have faced off. The accolades speak for themselves, while our guy has none. No Super Bowl appearances, no MVPs, no All Pro nods, and is barely a Pro Bowl invitee (I know, the Pro Bowl means nothing).
 

I do hope Lamar sends him home Sunday, even if that invites constant and annoying ball washing praise for Lamar. I’m just tired of Mahomes elevating that team when they should be in retool mode (last year) or in a down year (this season). He’s like The Terminator, or as Reid called him, “The Grim Reaper.”

[GunnerBill]

Oh good. We needed another thread bitching about coaching.

[Herb]

Reid and Mahomes can't really be compared to us...they've won multiple Super Bowls.

[BillsMontreal]

11 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes won a SB and MVP after trading Tyreek Hill.

 

he is in the afc championship game with a bottom 5 wide receiver core. 
 

mahomes would win wherever he is. 

Just last sunday, Mahomes missed two open receivers in the end zone and when he had the game in his hands in the 4th, he missed his receiver and they had to punt. He has nothing to do with the end of the game. He gave us the ball. Against a decimate defense.

 

It's fair enough, he can and will make mistakes, but it is the kind of mistake Allen cant make under this regime in those kind of game. 

Both are Elite QB and it seems we always talk about an Allen mistakes because he has to be perfect under our regime. If not, we lose.

We dont even talk about Mahomes mistakes.

It say something. They are a team and ready at another level. 

 

For me, it's pretty clear: Give them Allen and we have Mahomes and the Chiefs still win.

 

Maybe Mahomes is better than Allen. I take Allen first, but i understand we can talk about it. If so, he's slighty better than Allen.  Both are Elites.

 

When we watch carefully on the sideline of both teams, we see two man. They wear a hat. I really think that's where is unfair. One is Elite and know how to coach an Elite QB.

 

The best we can do is hoping our HC could learn that, but during that time, we found a way to lose in those situations when it counts the most year after year.

 

[Real McClappy]

This Thread =  If you gave Allen a future HOF OC HC, a future HOF TE in Kelce and future HoF WR in Hill how would Allen look?

 

If we seen Mahomes in 2018 under McD with the worst Bills o-line and WR core I have ever seen, I highly doubt he does anything like Allen his rookie year.

[UKBillFan]

10 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Because it just comes across as sour grapes. Mahomes had a 130 rating after all we heard is he can’t win on the road. After winning 2 MVPs, 2SBs (one each without Hill), helped terrible Nagy get a head coaching job (while Daboll won a COY), under Andy Reid (who was known as a choker and got fired in Philly). So why can’t bills fans stop trying to dismiss that he is truly all time great. Imagine if scenario was switched, and KC fans tried to do this. We would think they were morons. 
 

I mean I get this is offseason talk but man, let’s be better. We are lucky to have Allen but Mahomes is different man. 
 

of course this is the board with a 100 page thread of mahomes throwing an int in training camp practice 😂 

 

The Bills are not lucky to have Josh if Mahomes is different altogether. It just means they screwed up the draft when they had the opportunity to pick the latter.

[Scott7975]

Josh Allen needs the Josh Allen of receivers and this team would be unstoppable.  Dude just lays out everything he has.

 

 

[Iiiiiiiiive Got a Feeeelin]

20 hours ago, Billever76 said:

You forget allen was throwing to the hamburglar version of Kelvin Benjamin and zay Jones who went streaking through LA on bath salts lol

We also literally had the absolute worst O line in the league that year and an aging Shady McCoy who did absolutely nothing that season.  It makes for a great story, Josh's progression and all, but his first season should have a huge * with all these factors pointed out.  

[JohnBonhamRocks]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Josh Allen needs the Josh Allen of receivers and this team would be unstoppable.  Dude just lays out everything he has.

 

 

He needs guys brought in similar to what they did for Lamar last offseason. 

[Ramza86]

16 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes won a SB and MVP after trading Tyreek Hill.

 

he is in the afc championship game with a bottom 5 wide receiver core. 
 

mahomes would win wherever he is. 

 

Not if he had ken dorsey calling his plays.

[FireChans]

16 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Andy Reid went 20 years without winning a Super Bowl. His playoff record was was 11-13. KC drafted Mahomes, since that time he has two Super Bowl wins and is 13-3 in the playoffs. Why does everybody think it's Andy Reid or the roster? The clear smoking gun is Mahomes, just like it was Brady in New England. 

 

So if Allen is on that level what is holding Buffalo back? I don't believe we can conclude it's the roster. Patriots and Chiefs didn't win all those Super Bowls because the roster. For my dollar Reid and Belichick help. Sean hurts. What happens when you partner a hall of fame QB with a crappy head coach? Divisional losses. 

Are we positive Allen is “on that level” of a multiple MVP, multiple SB MVP winner?

[Brand J]

13 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

 

Not if he had ken dorsey calling his plays.

The problem with Ken Dorsey is that he was trying to force Allen to become a cerebral QB, a pocket passer like Tom Brady who only ran out of necessity. Sounded good in theory since the coaching staff wants to prolong Josh’s career, but that’s not the way Josh plays. He’s not a surgical passer who consistently finds the open guy against any defensive call.
 

Dorsey’s offense often had open receivers running around that Josh failed to hit, but to hit those receivers Josh would have to know and understand what his answers are against any given defense. What Brady did was not only simplify the game for him, but he allowed him to get back to doing what he loves to do - use his legs.
 

If Dorsey goes somewhere and has a lot of success as that team’s offensive coordinator it’s entirely because of the QB he’s working with. Dorsey is not a terrible coordinator as this board would have you believe, he and Josh just weren’t a match. Dorsey needs a cerebral point guard running his offense.

[Ramza86]

9 minutes ago, Brand J said:

The problem with Ken Dorsey is that he was trying to force Allen to become a cerebral QB, a pocket passer like Tom Brady who only ran out of necessity. Sounded good in theory since the coaching staff wants to prolong Josh’s career, but that’s not the way Josh plays. He’s not a surgical passer who consistently finds the open guy against any defensive call.
 

Dorsey’s offense often had open receivers running around that Josh failed to hit, but to hit those receivers Josh would have to know and understand what his answers are against any given defense. What Brady did was not only simplify the game for him, but he allowed him to get back to doing what he loves to do - use his legs.
 

If Dorsey goes somewhere and has a lot of success as that team’s offensive coordinator it’s entirely because of the QB he’s working with. Dorsey is not a terrible coordinator as this board would have you believe, he and Josh just weren’t a match. Dorsey needs a cerebral point guard running his offense.

 

One of my issues with this team the last 5 years is that drawing up plays that got players open wasnt at the place we needed it to be at.

 

When you watch some of the good offensive coaches/OCs you can see the difference on them getting players open.

 

ok this is a little unfair...but look at a kyle shannahan offense. Youre telling me Josh is too dumb to run that offense?