If we keep Brady, I’m not so sure wide receiver is going to be a top priority come April.

[Alphadawg7]

21 minutes ago, Beast said:

By top priority I mean a first or second round pick.

 

Glancing over the numbers from when Brady took over, there was obviously more of an emphasis to run the ball (to include letting Allen take off) and using the running backs and tight ends more. I didn’t gather Shakir’s, Kincaid’s or Cook’s receiving stats but, from memory, they seemed to be used a lot more.

 

What I did do was focus on Diggs/Davis and this is what both looked like before and after Brady took over

 

Diggs before per game:

 

7.3 catches, 86.8 yards, 10.2 targets, 0.7 TD

 

After:

 

4.8 catches, 45.0 yards, 8.2 targets, 0.1 TD

 

Davis before:

 

3.3 catches, 49.0 yards, 5.5 targets, 0.5 TD

 

After:

 

1.7 catches, 36.5 yards, 3.7 targets 0.3 TD’s

 

Now, take it as you may, I think the above clearly shows a bit of a change in philosophy and is that coming from Brady or is that what McDermott wants to see? That is quite a change under Brady and makes me believe that is Brady if kept, how much of a priority is wide receiver going to be when it appears the Bills actually went quite a bit away from their top two receivers, as well as needing help along the d-line and probably in the defensive backfield. I’m sure they will select a wide receiver….but at the top of their draft? I’m no longer so sure. (And trying to predict the draft is hard enough for so many reasons)

 

And it worries me a bit that things will remain status quo heading into 2024. 
 

I guess we will see in the coming months.

 

 

WR will still be a priority because Diggs is 31 years old.  

 

But I do think people are thinking about the need for a "WR2" incorrectly by solely focusing on a boundary WR to be the top target after Diggs.  But look at KC for example...you could say Hill was WR1 and Kelce was really WR2 in terms of how the offense functioned.  Then they had role players around them as other receivers.  

 

I think between Shakir and Kincaid, we have a top #2 target on this roster and really 2 very promising receiving targets between those 2.  

 

So what I think we need most is an eventual WR1 to replace Diggs after next season.  Then add some young speed as well who can play on the boundary

[ColoradoBills]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

So what I think we need most is an eventual WR1 to replace Diggs after next season.  Then add some young speed as well who can play on the boundary

 

I just posted in the presser thread the following.

 

Josh Allen deserves the chance to show what he can do with a big "go up and get it" WR.  He has never had one of those types.

It should be priority #1.

[schoolhouserock]

58 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Josh has taken a number of deep shots while Brady has been OC.  The bad news is they haven't connected on many.

The run success sets up the deep passes.

Need a deep threat WR IMO.

Strictly from memory and not any sort of data, the deep ball success rate seemed to be much worse this season than in years past. That was a mild surprise, I think. Not a one of the receivers really stepped up in this regard.

 

The deep ball seems to represent the biggest difference between something the team could do really well offensively (given Josh’s arm strength, his accuracy, and an o-line good enough to make the time) and something the team executed very poorly.

 

The Bills must find a receiver that can capitalize.

 

Another thing along the same lines - I thought the Bills receivers were horrible in drawing pass interference penalties. Deep balls offer ample opportunity. I mean, Denver used it to their advantage in the MNF game this season. We saw a big one in the 49ers-GB playoff game. It’s like the Bills’ receivers are content in allowing the defenders to sit on the WR’s hip, rather than forcing the defender to make contact.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, schoolhouserock said:

Strictly from memory and not any sort of data, the deep ball success rate seemed to be much worse this season than in years past. That was a mild surprise, I think. Not a one of the receivers really stepped up in this regard.

 

The deep ball seems to represent the biggest difference between something the team could do really well offensively (given Josh’s arm strength, his accuracy, and an o-line good enough to make the time) and something the team executed very poorly.

 

The Bills must find a receiver that can capitalize.

 

Another thing along the same lines - I thought the Bills receivers were horrible in drawing pass interference penalties. Deep balls offer ample opportunity. I mean, Denver used it to their advantage in the MNF game this season. We saw a big one in the 49ers-GB playoff game. It’s like the Bills’ receivers are content in allowing the defenders to sit on the WR’s hip, rather than forcing the defender to make contact.

 

With Josh Allen as QB it should be close to, if not leading the league, in those plays.

A great running game would set that up.  

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Thanks for the post. It makes sense, though, as you say, it's hard to know how much of that was Brady doing it because it's his preference, vs how much he was doing it because he recognized the Bills just didn't have the horses at WR.

McDermott stated at his end-of-season presser today "we need to create more explosive plays. That will be a factor in our player acquisition going forward".

Given that Cook was giving them explosive plays in the run game and they just spent a 1st on Kincaid and have big money locked up in Knox, I can't imagine that comment referring to anything other than adding to the wide receiver room.

they want a real outside threat to pair with diggs. It was very clear messaging today.

[T master]

4 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Worth keeping in mind:

 

We don’t really know any context behind these stats, and we don’t know what a Joe Brady installed offense looks like. 
 

It may not really be a stretch to say that Joe Brady called a Ken Dorsey’s version of a modified Brian DaBoll’s offense. 

 

Exactly Brady was put in a situation where he had to go with the play book they had instead of his plays . He may have tweaked a couple of things which is why Diggs numbers dropped a bit plus knowing the O line was healthy and playing well found that the run game would help some deficiencies else where .

 

I hope they keep Brady, Josh sounded almost excited when asked if he would endorse them keeping him as OC it could be a  very good match . Then add a couple really good, young WR's in the draft could be very dangerous and different looking from the Double D offense although they both had their moments !!

[Warriorspikes51]

you do know he was on the offensive staff coaching Justin Jefferson & Jamar Chase ?

[The Firebaugh Kid]

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

Josh has taken a number of deep shots while Brady has been OC.  The bad news is they haven't connected on many.

The run success sets up the deep passes.

Need a deep threat WR IMO.

Loving the KJ HAMLER signing. Who knows? He's only 24, was incredible at Penn S. 

[Dick_Cheney]

3 hours ago, ngbills said:

People do realize Brady was at LSU one year right? Note even a full year. With possibly one of the most talented football rosters in college football history. I would not place too much weight on connecting LSU and Brady. Brady was well like and an enthusiastic coach that got his players to play. But that was not his offense at LSU. 

On the flip side, he definitely knows what it's like to have elite talent at the WR position.

 

Gabe is going to be gone, so they're going to have to do something.

[BCAS Baritone]

No offensive coordinator in the league will turn down a great WR if one is available.  He might lean more to running than passing, but put CeeDee Lamb or JaMarr Chase or Justin Jefferson on his team and he'll find a way to toss him a few passes.

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, Beast said:

That is very true.

And that also worries me a bit. We don’t know what a Brady offense will truly look like.

But I think the above numbers show a definite change in philosophy.

 

I think we don't know to what extent the above numbers were influenced by:

1) a shoulder then neck injury that Josh Allen indicated was affecting his technique (thus accuracy), and trying to lean on the run game to spare Josh

2) potentially, Diggs dealing with issues caused by an oblique injury

3) Joe Brady trying to make lemonade out of the offense that was already installed

 

I'm more worried about McDermott kind of exculpating the offense and pointing at ST and defense, because whatever McDermott and Beane ID as the "weakest link" tends to get the lion share of the off-season resources, and that would be f'ing stupid IMHO

[Adam]

5 hours ago, Beast said:

By top priority I mean a first or second round pick.

 

Glancing over the numbers from when Brady took over, there was obviously more of an emphasis to run the ball (to include letting Allen take off) and using the running backs and tight ends more. I didn’t gather Shakir’s, Kincaid’s or Cook’s receiving stats but, from memory, they seemed to be used a lot more.

 

What I did do was focus on Diggs/Davis and this is what both looked like before and after Brady took over

 

Diggs before per game:

 

7.3 catches, 86.8 yards, 10.2 targets, 0.7 TD

 

After:

 

4.8 catches, 45.0 yards, 8.2 targets, 0.1 TD

 

Davis before:

 

3.3 catches, 49.0 yards, 5.5 targets, 0.5 TD

 

After:

 

1.7 catches, 36.5 yards, 3.7 targets 0.3 TD’s

 

Now, take it as you may, I think the above clearly shows a bit of a change in philosophy and is that coming from Brady or is that what McDermott wants to see? That is quite a change under Brady and makes me believe that is Brady if kept, how much of a priority is wide receiver going to be when it appears the Bills actually went quite a bit away from their top two receivers, as well as needing help along the d-line and probably in the defensive backfield. I’m sure they will select a wide receiver….but at the top of their draft? I’m no longer so sure. (And trying to predict the draft is hard enough for so many reasons)

 

And it worries me a bit that things will remain status quo heading into 2024. 
 

I guess we will see in the coming months.

 

Question is did he see more in the receivers we had, or in the other positions. 

[transient]

5 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Brady did what worked and that was the run game a lot of the time, why because for the longest time we've murdered teams with the intermediate passing game and they don't want to let us do that to them anymore plus Diggs was clearly dealing with something, and we did not have a serious #2 to force the issue.

I dunno… there were times Davis played like a serious #2 💩

[Nextmanup]

6 hours ago, Beast said:

And it worries me a bit that things will remain status quo heading into 2024. 
 

As I just wrote in another thread, after we made the switch at OC, we were the most run-heavy team in the entire NFL.

 

We should ALL be scared.  Passing attack and WR acquisition will NOT be top priorities.

 

I would NOT put it past these guys to take a DT with the first pick....again.

 

First pick should be a stud WR, if any of the half-dozen or so coming out this year are around when we draft....and the next pick will and probably should be a CB.

 

 

[VW82]

If we were still running Dorsey's offense, I could see the need to invest much more in our WR group. But we collectively decided that Josh wasn't at his best strictly being a pocket QB, and so I'm not so sure putting all our draft eggs in the WR basket makes much sense. 

 

We need to replace Gabe as he's likely a goner in FA. Perhaps from that perspective, it makes sense to draft someone in Rd1 or Rd2 who can eventually take over from Diggs as the #1. Basically, it's a need pick. 

 

I'd argue that we're almost better off investing in OL to insure our running game remains strong. We've already invested in Cook. We have a stated goal of 11.5 personnel. Maybe we just need to find the next round of Shakir/Beasley/Harty/Mckenzie that can get open so Josh isn't having to throw them open which he struggles with. At some point, I'd like to see us invest in a C who can not only pass pro but move the pile a little. Imagine EWood with this group.

Edited January 23 by VW82

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

6 hours ago, Beast said:

That is very true.

 

And that also worries me a bit. We don’t know what a Brady offense will truly look like.

 

But I think the above numbers show a definite change in philosophy.

 

 

 

The good news is, Carolina let him go because he was passing too much and they wanted a more run oriented scheme but he refused. That has to be encouraging!

[SirAndrew]

I actually agree with this. I think McD has a lot of input into this offense. The winning steak hid some major flaws with this offense. This is a McD “complimentary” football offense. I realize that football isn’t about statistics, but Allen only threw for an average of 212 yards per game the last seven weeks. I don’t think that’s how you build a winner with an all time great QB. Sure, a lack of receivers had a lot to do with it, but I think this regime likes that style of ball. 

[CincyBillsFan]

9 hours ago, Beast said:

By top priority I mean a first or second round pick.

 

Glancing over the numbers from when Brady took over, there was obviously more of an emphasis to run the ball (to include letting Allen take off) and using the running backs and tight ends more. I didn’t gather Shakir’s, Kincaid’s or Cook’s receiving stats but, from memory, they seemed to be used a lot more.

 

What I did do was focus on Diggs/Davis and this is what both looked like before and after Brady took over

 

Diggs before per game:

 

7.3 catches, 86.8 yards, 10.2 targets, 0.7 TD

 

After:

 

4.8 catches, 45.0 yards, 8.2 targets, 0.1 TD

 

Davis before:

 

3.3 catches, 49.0 yards, 5.5 targets, 0.5 TD

 

After:

 

1.7 catches, 36.5 yards, 3.7 targets 0.3 TD’s

 

Now, take it as you may, I think the above clearly shows a bit of a change in philosophy and is that coming from Brady or is that what McDermott wants to see? That is quite a change under Brady and makes me believe that is Brady if kept, how much of a priority is wide receiver going to be when it appears the Bills actually went quite a bit away from their top two receivers, as well as needing help along the d-line and probably in the defensive backfield. I’m sure they will select a wide receiver….but at the top of their draft? I’m no longer so sure. (And trying to predict the draft is hard enough for so many reasons)

 

And it worries me a bit that things will remain status quo heading into 2024. 
 

I guess we will see in the coming months.

 

The offense you saw Brady run was an admission on his part of the weakness of the Bills WR room.

 

I am confident that with the right WR's Brady will be a brilliant OC.  I watched every LSU game the year they won the National Championship with Burrow, Chase & Jefferson.  Go back and watch some of those games and you will feel much more confident that if the Bills sign a stud WR in FA or use a 1st round pick to take a top flight guy in the draft Brady will know how to get the most out of him. Brady was in charge of the LSU passing game that year.

 

In fact I would go so far as to say that if Brady doesn't get assurances from McD/Bean that they're bringing in a top level WR talent either in FA or the draft he will be very tempted t leave Buffalo for another OC job.

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

8 hours ago, ngbills said:

People do realize Brady was at LSU one year right? Note even a full year. With possibly one of the most talented football rosters in college football history. I would not place too much weight on connecting LSU and Brady. Brady was well like and an enthusiastic coach that got his players to play. But that was not his offense at LSU. 

I follow LSU football closely and this is not correct.  Brady was recruited by LSU to install and run an NFL passing attack.  My understanding is that he had been a quality control manager for Sean Payton and the Saints who loaned him out to LSU to do a seminar on building an effective passing game.  The Tigers were so impressed they offered him a job.  Ed Orgeron (LSU head coach) and the LSU OC recognized they had elite NFL talent in the passing game but worried they didn't have the expertise to fully exploit it. 

 

Brady installed that fearsome LSU passing attack and called all the pass plays on game day.  He sat next to the OC in the booth who called the running plays.  Brady's impact on that team was enormous and was the reason they won the national title in dominating fashion.  It was the most lethal passing attack ever seen in the history of college football.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, Beast said:

By top priority I mean a first or second round pick.

 

Glancing over the numbers from when Brady took over, there was obviously more of an emphasis to run the ball (to include letting Allen take off) and using the running backs and tight ends more. I didn’t gather Shakir’s, Kincaid’s or Cook’s receiving stats but, from memory, they seemed to be used a lot more.

 

What I did do was focus on Diggs/Davis and this is what both looked like before and after Brady took over

 

Diggs before per game:

 

7.3 catches, 86.8 yards, 10.2 targets, 0.7 TD

 

After:

 

4.8 catches, 45.0 yards, 8.2 targets, 0.1 TD

 

Davis before:

 

3.3 catches, 49.0 yards, 5.5 targets, 0.5 TD

 

After:

 

1.7 catches, 36.5 yards, 3.7 targets 0.3 TD’s

 

Now, take it as you may, I think the above clearly shows a bit of a change in philosophy and is that coming from Brady or is that what McDermott wants to see? That is quite a change under Brady and makes me believe that is Brady if kept, how much of a priority is wide receiver going to be when it appears the Bills actually went quite a bit away from their top two receivers, as well as needing help along the d-line and probably in the defensive backfield. I’m sure they will select a wide receiver….but at the top of their draft? I’m no longer so sure. (And trying to predict the draft is hard enough for so many reasons)

 

And it worries me a bit that things will remain status quo heading into 2024. 
 

I guess we will see in the coming months.

 

 

 

Yeah, something is going on. I'm not clear on what it is, but Brady's influence has to be one of the main suspects.

 

Is Diggs getting older? Are injuries involved? Are Diggs' skills a misfit with Brady's system? Can this be fixed with adjustments to route concepts and play-calling?

 

They've got to figure out what it is.

Edited January 24 by Thurman#1