McDermott - Excuses, Valid but concerning

[racketmaster]

27 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

That's a fair point of view. I disagree with it but it's fair. 

 

There is ample evidence to think McD can't get us there. Of course, no one can predict what will happen. But one just can't ignore the facts. 

 

Also, I'm not afraid of a coaching change. I think it's flawed to think another coach wouldn't be as successful. 

It really is difficult to make any definitive judgements with such a small sample size. Eagles fans ran Reid out of town and he was unable to get over the hump with the Chiefs until he got Mahomes. Now he is considered one of the greatest coaches ever.

 

I hear a lot of people who are certain that McDermott can’t win the SB. Does this rationale also apply to Allen? I mean he has been unable to beat Mahomes in the playoffs so does that mean he cannot be a SB winning qb? There are a myriad of reasons this team has failed to get over the hump, but I don’t think our HC or QB are in anyway holding this team back. 

Edited January 24 by racketmaster

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

All we have done is win since he arrived. He took the Bills to the playoffs prior to Josh arriving while ending the drought. He’s won the AFCE for four straight years. He has the highest winning percentage of ANY coach in franchise history. I don’t like whiney people who constantly need instant gratification. 

What has he done to prove he can get by the Chiefs in the playoffs? That’s all that matters at this point. You gotta keep moving forward and the Bills are just treading water.

[2003Contenders]

49 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

McDermott has a .640 all time win percentage just behind Andy Reid .641. McDermott’s win percentage is better than Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Bill Cower, Sean McVay, Pete Carroll, Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, Bill Parcells just to name to a few. He took over a losing culture and we have been a consistent winner since. Lesser coaches have been able to win the Super Bowl so there is no reason to think that he could not win it. 
 

Only 1 team wins in the end each year and it takes playing your best at the end of season, a few bounces to go your way and to be relatively healthy. It is not like he has been unable to win in the playoffs as he has essentially been beaten by Andy Reid and the Chiefs most years. So if the Chiefs want to swap Reid for McDermott, sure I’ll do it but that ain’t happening. The chances of actually getting an upgrade to McDermott are slim. The team is much more likely to take a step back rather than finding the coach that can actually outcoach Reid. 
 

Sure McDermott can be rigid at times, but more often than not he is able to adapt and correct mistakes. I think he has some degree of self awareness and he has improved as a coach. He was aggressive during the Chiefs game and other than who actually carried the ball on the fake punt, I had no issues with his coaching performance. Essentially, our big time players like Diggs, Oliver and Cook failed to make enough plays and we lost by 3 points having a completely depleted defense on the back 7. 
 

It is disappointing losing to the Chiefs again, but realistically most every other team in the league has done so too in the last 5-6 years. I thought the team rallied around McDermott this year and that showed me something. I understand the frustration but it really makes no sense to get rid of the bird in hand that has this team as a contender year in and year out. 

 

Good post.

 

I was one of those who was starting to believe that it was time to bring an end to the McDermott era when we were 6-6 and lost to the Eagles after some questionable decisions. Then the team went 5-0 to end the season, beating some good teams in the process. Hard to imagine wanting to fire a head coach that oversaw such a closeout to gain the #2 overall seed in the the AFC, when they were on the outside looking in just 5 weeks before.

 

And it is also hard for me to lay much blame at the feet of McDermott for what went down Sunday against the Chiefs. In terms of coaching decisions, I suppose you could fault him for approving the fake punt -- but that did not cost the Bills the game given that they were fortunate to get the ball back after the fumble. Otherwise, I thought he did a good job with clock management, challenges, and having the team prepared (given the circumstances).

 

In fact, there have been numerous posts about what cost the Bills that game -- missed FG, critical dropped passes, questions about the 2nd an 9 play after the 2:00 warning, depleted defense, etc. Again, hard to blame McD for any of those.

 

How about this? Maybe the Chiefs deserve some credit for playing out of their minds on Sunday! Their receivers, who had been sub par pretty much the whole season, caught every catchable pass thrown their way. Their OL, playing on the road in a hostile setting against a healthy Buffalo DL (the one part of the defense that was healthy), was spectacular allowing almost no pressure whatsoever against Mahomes. When their own defense needed to clamp down in the 4th quarter, they did -- adjusting the stop Cook and the running game that had been carving them up the first 3 quarters.

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

It really is difficult to make any definitive judgements with such a small sample size. Eagles fans ran Reid out of town and he was unable to get over the hump with the Chiefs until he got Mahomes. Now he is considered one of the greatest coaches ever.

 

I hear a lot of people who are certain that McDermott can’t win the SB. Does this rationale also apply to Allen? I mean he has been unable to beat Mahomes in the playoffs so does that mean he cannot be a SB winning qb? There are a myriad of reasons this team has failed to get over the hump, but I don’t think our HC or QB are in anyway holding this team back. 

 

What has Allen done in the last two matchups against KC to make you believe he can't get past KC?

 

What has McDermott done in the last two matchups against KC to make you believe he can't get past KC?

 

I don't think we need to get into this debate. 

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

It really is difficult to make any definitive judgements with such a small sample size. Eagles fans ran Reid out of town and he was unable to get over the hump with the Chiefs until he got Mahomes. Now he is considered one of the greatest coaches ever.

 

People always like to draw this comparison but the big difference between the Reid and McDermott situations is that Reid had FAR more postseason success in Philly than McD has had in Buffalo.

 

Therefore, it was easier to imagine Reid finally getting over the hump than it is to imagine that McD does the same.

 

For example, McDermott just finished his 7th head coaching season. He has been to 0 Super Bowls and 1 AFCCG.

 

By the end of Reid’s 7th season, he had been to 4 Championship games and a Super Bowl.

 

Thats a big, big, big difference. Reid had proven by this point that he could make the Championship game with relative ease, and he had already been to a Super Bowl. McD has not shown that.

 

That being said, I really like McD as a human. He is a good man. I truly believe that. And I believe the team respects him. But I can’t help but fear that he just doesn’t have it in big games.

[racketmaster]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

What has Allen done in the last two matchups against KC to make you believe he can't get past KC?

 

What has McDermott done in the last two matchups against KC to make you believe he can't get past KC?

 

I don't think we need to get into this debate. 

I believe that they can beat the Chiefs in the playoffs, they just have not done it yet. Allen has been mostly outstanding in the playoffs and especially against the Chiefs. McDermott at the end of regulation in the 13 seconds game but otherwise has been good. He has gone for numerous 4th downs in both games and the team has generally responded. The Chiefs are the gold standard of the NFL and just because we lost 2 very close games in the playoffs against them in the last 3 years does not mean we can’t just as easily make a play at the end of the game, hit a fg etc and win. I’d be more concerned if we were getting manhandled and blown out in these games. 

[LarryMadman]

20 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

It really is difficult to make any definitive judgements with such a small sample size. Eagles fans ran Reid out of town and he was unable to get over the hump with the Chiefs until he got Mahomes. Now he is considered one of the greatest coaches ever.

 

I hear a lot of people who are certain that McDermott can’t win the SB. Does this rationale also apply to Allen? I mean he has been unable to beat Mahomes in the playoffs so does that mean he cannot be a SB winning qb? There are a myriad of reasons this team has failed to get over the hump, but I don’t think our HC or QB are in anyway holding this team back. 

Is Allen cant beat Mahomes or is it McDermott cant beat Reid?

 

It's the latter as Josh has played 2 flawless games vs Mahomes and lost both because his coach ***** the bed as he always does!

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, racketmaster said:

I’d be more concerned if we were getting manhandled and blown out in these games. 

 

It’s been quite frankly forgotten about, but we were a fumble at the goal line away from being down two scores with around 10 minutes left in the game.

 

And the reason for that is because McD decided to try a fake punt at our own 30-some yard line, needing way too many yards. It was a truly awful decision. That being said, I liked the aggressiveness. But I would have rather left your All-Star QB run that 4th down play than Damar friggin Hamlin.

 

I guess my point is that we were about an inch in butt-to-turf space from being in another two score loss to KC in the playoffs.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

People always like to draw this comparison but the big difference between the Reid and McDermott situations is that Reid had FAR more postseason success in Philly than McD has had in Buffalo.

 

Therefore, it was easier to imagine Reid finally getting over the hump than it is to imagine that McD does the same.

 

For example, McDermott just finished his 7th head coaching season. He has been to 0 Super Bowls and 1 AFCCG.

 

By the end of Reid’s 7th season, he had been to 4 Championship games and a Super Bowl.

 

Thats a big, big, big difference. Reid had proven by this point that he could make the Championship game with relative ease, and he had already been to a Super Bowl. McD has not shown that.

 

That being said, I really like McD as a human. He is a good man. I truly believe that. And I believe the team respects him. But I can’t help but fear that he just doesn’t have it in big games.

 

 

I'm most concerned with the self-fulfilling prophecy aspect.

 

Lesser coaches than McD have won and will win SB's.   

 

But when you get a reputation for coming up short in big situations..........in a room of 20 and 30 something dudes who are easily sucked into narratives by nature........well,  I think it becomes a task in itself to reverse that notion.

[Success]

The Bills should have never had to fight to get the 2 seed this year.

 

But, without a ton of luck, we still would have missed the playoffs.  PI not getting called in the Giants game, Toney being Offside, breaks in the Chargers, Pats & Dolphins games. This team could have finished much worse.

 

Would they have kept McDermott on if we missed the playoffs entirely?  

 

Doubt it.  And that's troubling.  Because we might be keeping a coach because a WR had his foot 6" over the LOS.

 

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I'm most concerned with the self-fulfilling prophecy aspect.

 

Lesser coaches than McD have won and will win SB's.   

 

But when you get a reputation for coming up short in big situations..........in a room of 20 and 30 something dudes who are easily sucked into narratives by nature........well,  I think it becomes a task in itself to reverse that notion.

 

That may be part of the reason for the phenomenon that I mentioned in a thread earlier this year. 

 

Only 5 coaches in the past 40 years have made their inaugural Super Bowl appearance after 7 seasons of head coaching (which is where McD is now).

 

For anyone wishing to revisit that data, here is the thread: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/248039-how-long-does-it-take-an-nfl-head-coach-to-reach-his-1st-super-bowl/

 

Edited January 24 by Einstein

[HomeskillitMoorman]

7 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

I believe that they can beat the Chiefs in the playoffs, they just have not done it yet. Allen has been mostly outstanding in the playoffs and especially against the Chiefs. McDermott at the end of regulation in the 13 seconds game but otherwise has been good. He has gone for numerous 4th downs in both games and the team has generally responded. The Chiefs are the gold standard of the NFL and just because we lost 2 very close games in the playoffs against them in the last 3 years does not mean we can’t just as easily make a play at the end of the game, hit a fg etc and win. I’d be more concerned if we were getting manhandled and blown out in these games. 

How has McD been good in the KC games even outside 13 seconds? His defenses have gotten completely lit up in all 3 of those games. The 2 where we were relatively healthy they gave up 38 and 42 points. 

[racketmaster]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

People always like to draw this comparison but the big difference between the Reid and McDermott situations is that Reid had FAR more postseason success in Philly than McD has had in Buffalo.

 

Therefore, it was easier to imagine Reid finally getting over the hump than it is to imagine that McD does the same.

 

For example, McDermott just finished his 7th head coaching season. He has been to 0 Super Bowls and 1 AFCCG.

 

By the end of Reid’s 7th season, he had been to 4 Championship games and a Super Bowl.

 

Thats a big, big, big difference. Reid had proven by this point that he could make the Championship game with relative ease, and he had already been to a Super Bowl. McD has not shown that.

 

That being said, I really like McD as a human. He is a good man. I truly believe that. And I believe the team respects him. But I can’t help but fear that he just doesn’t have it in big games.

The Eagles and Reid also did not have the perennial powerhouse in their conference. The Patriots were in the AFC and starting their dynasty run. Now we have the Chiefs to contend with. Heck, put the Bills in the NFC the last 7 years and I can pretty much guarantee that we would have had a top seed and SB appearance (maybe not a SB win) but at least be in the big game. The path to the SB matters and has been easier for some. 
 

John Harbaugh is an excellent HC and he has gone years in between SB appearances. All you can do is put your team in position to be able to win it and I just don’t ever feel like the Bills go into games where I feel like we will be outclassed at HC. Aside from the lifeless Bengals performance, this team has been very competitive and been just a play or two away from advancing. 
 

Hearing the complaints about McDermott and how he is the problem makes one think we are getting blown out in the playoffs year after year. He is a top end HC in this league (not the best) but Allen might not be the best QB either and I still think he is good enough to win it. These are 1 game playoffs and on any given day the weird shaped ball can bounce for or against you. 

[racketmaster]

6 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

How has McD been good in the KC games even outside 13 seconds? His defenses have gotten completely lit up in all 3 of those games. The 2 where we were relatively healthy they gave up 38 and 42 points. 

His job as a HC has been to prepare the entire team, not just the defense. In the 13 seconds game he was not the defensive coordinator but ultimately responsible for how we defended the field in the last 13 seconds. That was not great coaching but also excellent play by 3 Hall of Fame players in Mahomes, Kelce and Hill. I mean, they get paid on the other side as well and there was some generational talent there. Does not stopping a high powered offense make Reid or Spags a bad coach, because they could not stop us either in that game. 
 

in this last game, I struggle to really pick anything that McDermott did wrong. His defense was decimated by injuries and the Chiefs offense played its best ball. There players caught the ball out players dropped too many. That was probably the difference in the game right there. That is more a player issue rather than a coaching concern. We literally had a mlb who had basically retired come in off the street running the defense and many other injuries and hobbling players. That said it was a 3 point game and we missed a fg to tie it. The margins in this games are slim as it has been in the regular season games between us. 

[racketmaster]

24 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Is Allen cant beat Mahomes or is it McDermott cant beat Reid?

 

It's the latter as Josh has played 2 flawless games vs Mahomes and lost both because his coach ***** the bed as he always does!

Maybe, but it could also be that Kelce has been much better than Diggs in these games and Butker has been better than Bass. Chris Jones has been more impactful than Oliver. There are a lot of players on the field other than just the qbs. 
 

Qb and HC are the most important areas of your team but they are not the only things that matter. Allen and McDermott are good enough to get it done but they need some other players to step up in big moments as well. 
 

That standard is Mahomes/Reid. Good luck finding better than that combo right now and the fact that we are so close to them speaks to what a good duo we have. 

[Einstein]

15 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

The Eagles and Reid also did not have the perennial powerhouse in their conference. The Patriots were in the AFC and starting their dynasty run. Now we have the Chiefs to contend with.

 

I might be inclined to agree with you if the Chiefs had not been beaten in the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years (Bengals, Bucs). And it could become 3 of the last 4 if they lose to the Ravens on Sunday.

 

Point being: It’s not as if the Chiefs are just winning against everybody every year. They lose… just not to us.

 

This must be what it felt to be a Dolphins fan in the late 80’s and early 90’s. 

[racketmaster]

9 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I might be inclined to agree with you if the Chiefs had not been beaten in the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years (Bengals, Bucs). And it could become 3 of the last 4 if they lose to the Ravens on Sunday.

 

Point being: It’s not as if the Chiefs are just winning against everybody every year. They lose… just not to us.

 

This must be what it felt to be a Dolphins fan in the late 80’s and early 90’s. 

They did have Shula who was a HoF coach and SB winner so I think he got some slack. 
 

I don’t completely disagree but again the playoff sample sizes are minuscule and hard to make any definitive predictions.

McDermott has not been dreadful in the playoffs with a 5-6 record. 
John Harbaugh is 12-9

McVay 7-4

Tomlin 8-10

Parcells 11-8

 

Fans want to call McDermott Marty Schottenheimer but he was 5-13 in post season. I just think we have one of the 5-7 truly good HCs in this league. He is not the best but I think he is close enough. In the end it is a moot point as the Bills are not changing HC this year or likely anytime soon. 

[Gregg]

3 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

They did have Shula who was a HoF coach and SB winner so I think he got some slack. 
 

I don’t completely disagree but again the playoff sample sizes are minuscule and hard to make any definitive predictions.

McDermott has not been dreadful in the playoffs with a 5-6 record. 
John Harbaugh is 12-9

McVay 7-4

Tomlin 8-10

Parcells 11-8

 

Fans want to call McDermott Marty Schottenheimer but he was 5-13 in post season. I just think we have one of the 5-7 truly good HCs in this league. He is not the best but I think he is close enough. In the end it is a moot point as the Bills are not changing HC this year or likely anytime soon. 

 

They aren't this year but if next year is another playoff failure or they don't make the playoffs then I think he is gone.

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

I don’t completely disagree but again the playoff sample sizes are minuscule and hard to make any definitive predictions.

McDermott has not been dreadful in the playoffs with a 5-6 record. 

See, I wouldn't call McDermott "dreadful" in the playoffs. To me, assessing his coaching does not have to be binary. It doesn't have to be awesome or dreadful. It can be in the middle. It can be "good but not good enough", without being dreadful.

PS, I wouldn't want John Harbaugh or Tomlin as our coach.

 

[racketmaster]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

See, I wouldn't call McDermott "dreadful" in the playoffs. To me, assessing his coaching does not have to be binary. It doesn't have to be awesome or dreadful. It can be in the middle. It can be "good but not good enough", without being dreadful.

PS, I wouldn't want John Harbaugh or Tomlin as our coach.

 

Makes sense, I’m just not sure who we would get that is an improvement at HC. If you could get me McVay or Reid, I’m in but that is not happening. Not sure I would feel anybody else out there is an upgrade, maybe Matt Laflur or Shanahan.