Doc Posted August 2 Posted August 2 3 hours ago, Starr-Bills said: So let’s do nothing. Genius. That's what the Dems did for 3-1/2 years. No wait, they did something: they denied there was a problem...until the polls started to hurt them. But since that deal was mercifully killed, border crossings have decreased monthly. To what do you attribute this? 1
Starr-Bills Posted August 2 Posted August 2 5 minutes ago, Doc said: That's what the Dems did for 3-1/2 years. No wait, they did something: they denied there was a problem...until the polls started to hurt them. But since that deal was mercifully killed, border crossings have decreased monthly. To what do you attribute this? Okay so let's say they did nothing for 3 1/2 years fine. When a bill lead, by a very conservative republican was hammered out with democrats it was killed. first because it was bundled with Ukraine aid (since the GOP was holding that hostage to help their buddy Putin). it was then broken out from that, and senate Does votes to move it forward, when speaker Johnson too direction from one non-elected person (the felon) to kill the bill because he didn't want to give the POTUS, the United States a win. So then Biden to the step of passing some executive orders that enacted many but not all the provisions of the bill. note he tried to pass legislation first, which represents the people rather than an edict from one person. these executive orders have slowed down the boarder crossings but not as much as the bill would have. So let's see Biden Harris tried to use legislations and were stopped by the felon and then compromised by writing some executive orders. now I can't cite any direct influence by Putin to push boarder crossing and create a crisis in the southwest, but he did do exactly that at the polish, finish, and batting states boarders as a well to try and topple liberal domoracy's, so we could also infer he was involved in that. and I know you guys love the game of asking a question, getting an intelligent and at least partial researched answer, dismissing it and pivoting to some other shiny object. I know this but there might be a few on there who will learn something and maybe do a little bit of their own questioning of the sources of their media. enjoy.
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 2 Posted August 2 2 hours ago, Starr-Bills said: Okay so let's say they did nothing for 3 1/2 years fine. When a bill lead, by a very conservative republican was hammered out with democrats it was killed. first because it was bundled with Ukraine aid (since the GOP was holding that hostage to help their buddy Putin). it was then broken out from that, and senate Does votes to move it forward, when speaker Johnson too direction from one non-elected person (the felon) to kill the bill because he didn't want to give the POTUS, the United States a win. So then Biden to the step of passing some executive orders that enacted many but not all the provisions of the bill. note he tried to pass legislation first, which represents the people rather than an edict from one person. these executive orders have slowed down the boarder crossings but not as much as the bill would have. So let's see Biden Harris tried to use legislations and were stopped by the felon and then compromised by writing some executive orders. now I can't cite any direct influence by Putin to push boarder crossing and create a crisis in the southwest, but he did do exactly that at the polish, finish, and batting states boarders as a well to try and topple liberal domoracy's, so we could also infer he was involved in that. and I know you guys love the game of asking a question, getting an intelligent and at least partial researched answer, dismissing it and pivoting to some other shiny object. I know this but there might be a few on there who will learn something and maybe do a little bit of their own questioning of the sources of their media. enjoy. Your rambling aside, you admit that Biden in 2021 did his own EOs to allow the greater border crossings then once he could not pass a "new" law he went and eliminated his prior EOs. Truly he was ignoring the laws on the book and simply not enforcing them, why would the Republicans believe he would enforce the new ones? As for the Ukraine I hope they come to peace with Russia before they destroy the country permanently. Standing up to Putin was the right thing to do in February of 2022 but since June of 2022 all that has happened is lots of dead men with no viable way to win back all the land that was lost. A peace treaty is the way to go but now when Ukraine can still make a real threat of damaging Russia, soon they will have no men to fight. 3
Starr-Bills Posted August 2 Posted August 2 2 hours ago, Orlando Buffalo said: Your rambling aside, you admit that Biden in 2021 did his own EOs to allow the greater border crossings then once he could not pass a "new" law he went and eliminated his prior EOs. Truly he was ignoring the laws on the book and simply not enforcing them, why would the Republicans believe he would enforce the new ones? As for the Ukraine I hope they come to peace with Russia before they destroy the country permanently. Standing up to Putin was the right thing to do in February of 2022 but since June of 2022 all that has happened is lots of dead men with no viable way to win back all the land that was lost. A peace treaty is the way to go but now when Ukraine can still make a real threat of damaging Russia, soon they will have no men to fight. Sigh, rambling, thanks for the feedback. so I read this because the boarder is not an issue for me. Seems like a mixed bag. Trump cruel and ineffective and Biden less cruel and ineffective. the ICE agents are bib man they can rough up people as much. maybe dial up enforcement some and work on improved policies? Ukraine is also a mixed bag. Just enough to muddle though, not enough to win. Very disappointing to me to be honest. But also encouraging that bloated defense budget in the 1990's is really paying dividends as 30+ year old ATACAM's destroy S-400 complexes almost daily). I think you meant June 2023, but I get your point. and sadly it's the best of Ukraine vs Ru worst. it really is despicable what Putin is doing/. Russia is the one who is wasting lives. They invaded another country and murdered its citizens. They can leave and then we can negotiate how much they pay in reparations. If it was me as POTUS I'd send them 1000 Bradlys 300 M1's 100 F-16s and empty the stocks of ATACMS (the better to buy new systems) and put potion out of business. however you are correct man power issues for Ukraine are serious. Sorry Ukraine is a soft spot for me.
Doc Posted August 2 Posted August 2 4 hours ago, Starr-Bills said: Okay so let's say they did nothing for 3 1/2 years fine. When a bill lead, by a very conservative republican was hammered out with democrats it was killed. first because it was bundled with Ukraine aid (since the GOP was holding that hostage to help their buddy Putin). it was then broken out from that, and senate Does votes to move it forward, when speaker Johnson too direction from one non-elected person (the felon) to kill the bill because he didn't want to give the POTUS, the United States a win. So then Biden to the step of passing some executive orders that enacted many but not all the provisions of the bill. note he tried to pass legislation first, which represents the people rather than an edict from one person. these executive orders have slowed down the boarder crossings but not as much as the bill would have. So let's see Biden Harris tried to use legislations and were stopped by the felon and then compromised by writing some executive orders. now I can't cite any direct influence by Putin to push boarder crossing and create a crisis in the southwest, but he did do exactly that at the polish, finish, and batting states boarders as a well to try and topple liberal domoracy's, so we could also infer he was involved in that. and I know you guys love the game of asking a question, getting an intelligent and at least partial researched answer, dismissing it and pivoting to some other shiny object. I know this but there might be a few on there who will learn something and maybe do a little bit of their own questioning of the sources of their media. enjoy. You're just mad that Biden couldn't take a victory lap over "fixing the border." Too bad. He was the one who broke it by himself and then lied about there being a problem and that he couldn't fix it alone for 3-1/2 years, allowing anywhere from 8-20M illegals to enter. Then lo and behold when the polls kept showing Dems were being blamed for the border despite Repubs killing the "border deal," he was finally forced to take executive action. Again the decrease in border crossings since the border bill was proposed and then killed is because the world saw that America (read: Dems because of the polls) was finally serious about fixing the border. And it shows that the bill, another bloated piece of legislation, was unnecessary.
Starr-Bills Posted August 2 Posted August 2 2 minutes ago, Doc said: You're just mad that Biden couldn't take a victory lap over "fixing the border." Too bad. He was the one who broke it by himself and then lied about there being a problem and that he couldn't fix it alone for 3-1/2 years, allowing anywhere from 8-20M illegals to enter. Then lo and behold when the polls kept showing Dems were being blamed for the border despite Repubs killing the "border deal," he was finally forced to take executive action. Again the decrease in border crossings since the border bill was proposed and then killed is because the world saw that America (read: Dems because of the polls) was finally serious about fixing the border. And it shows that the bill, another bloated piece of legislation, was unnecessary. Cool man, like I said boarder not my gig. I say let them all in legally and document them and tax'em. but what do I know.
Doc Posted August 2 Posted August 2 16 minutes ago, Starr-Bills said: Cool man, like I said boarder not my gig. I say let them all in legally and document them and tax'em. but what do I know. I see that. 1
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 3 Posted August 3 3 hours ago, Starr-Bills said: Sigh, rambling, thanks for the feedback. so I read this because the boarder is not an issue for me. Seems like a mixed bag. Trump cruel and ineffective and Biden less cruel and ineffective. the ICE agents are bib man they can rough up people as much. maybe dial up enforcement some and work on improved policies? Ukraine is also a mixed bag. Just enough to muddle though, not enough to win. Very disappointing to me to be honest. But also encouraging that bloated defense budget in the 1990's is really paying dividends as 30+ year old ATACAM's destroy S-400 complexes almost daily). I think you meant June 2023, but I get your point. and sadly it's the best of Ukraine vs Ru worst. it really is despicable what Putin is doing/. Russia is the one who is wasting lives. They invaded another country and murdered its citizens. They can leave and then we can negotiate how much they pay in reparations. If it was me as POTUS I'd send them 1000 Bradlys 300 M1's 100 F-16s and empty the stocks of ATACMS (the better to buy new systems) and put potion out of business. however you are correct man power issues for Ukraine are serious. Sorry Ukraine is a soft spot for me. I meant June of 2022 is when we should have started discussing a peace treaty. It was clear at the time that there was not going to be any decisive win for the Ukraine. They have lost a huge amount of their able bodied men, I have seen estimates as high as 30% of those from 18-30. I have no issue with supplying them with weapons but unless we are going to start attacking into Russia we are limited in what effect it will have. We still have not heard what a win looks like from Zelensky or Biden, which means that there is not practical version.
Starr-Bills Posted August 3 Posted August 3 9 hours ago, Orlando Buffalo said: I meant June of 2022 is when we should have started discussing a peace treaty. It was clear at the time that there was not going to be any decisive win for the Ukraine. They have lost a huge amount of their able bodied men, I have seen estimates as high as 30% of those from 18-30. I have no issue with supplying them with weapons but unless we are going to start attacking into Russia we are limited in what effect it will have. We still have not heard what a win looks like from Zelensky or Biden, which means that there is not practical version. Well June of 22 is before they took back both Kerson and karkiev oblasts (Oct / Nov 2022) and before they were provide with any of the western tanks etc. the 2023 offensive was a bit of a disaster but also under resourced (no local air superiority). Meanwhile Russia has bled themselves white and a fall or spring offensive properly resourced could crack the brittle Russian lines. And we should unlock the use of weapons in Russia as needed. also I don’t think it’s really our decision if people want to fight to get back their land from an aggressor to tell them too many of their own people are dying, I think they are adults and can make that decision for themselves and we should aid them in defending their democracy as much as we can. Beside there is no negotiation with Putin, he’ll stop for now and buildup to attack again. He must be decisively defeated on the battle field. this can happen one the Ukrainians regain control of their air space, you can see their progress in the moving of the ru fleet from Crimea, and the campaign to remove all the AD with atacms. With the additional patriots and a build up the f-16 fleet they will be able to gain local air superiority which would allow success on the ground previously impossible. p.s. I think they have more reserves than they are letting people know of for just this kind of attack. We’ll see.
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 3 Posted August 3 50 minutes ago, Starr-Bills said: Well June of 22 is before they took back both Kerson and karkiev oblasts (Oct / Nov 2022) and before they were provide with any of the western tanks etc. the 2023 offensive was a bit of a disaster but also under resourced (no local air superiority). Meanwhile Russia has bled themselves white and a fall or spring offensive properly resourced could crack the brittle Russian lines. And we should unlock the use of weapons in Russia as needed. also I don’t think it’s really our decision if people want to fight to get back their land from an aggressor to tell them too many of their own people are dying, I think they are adults and can make that decision for themselves and we should aid them in defending their democracy as much as we can. Beside there is no negotiation with Putin, he’ll stop for now and buildup to attack again. He must be decisively defeated on the battle field. this can happen one the Ukrainians regain control of their air space, you can see their progress in the moving of the ru fleet from Crimea, and the campaign to remove all the AD with atacms. With the additional patriots and a build up the f-16 fleet they will be able to gain local air superiority which would allow success on the ground previously impossible. p.s. I think they have more reserves than they are letting people know of for just this kind of attack. We’ll see. Before we go any further, how many Ukrainians do you believe have died? It seems as if your argument is based on obliterating those areas of Ukraine you want to retake.
Starr-Bills Posted August 3 Posted August 3 30 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said: Before we go any further, how many Ukrainians do you believe have died? It seems as if your argument is based on obliterating those areas of Ukraine you want to retake. 1. You’re not the arbiter of this discussion. 2. Too many Ukrainians. 3. It Russia who is the aggressor and who is destroying Ukraine, like they did in Chechnya and Georgia, stop blaming the victim. 4. Russia had murdered several hundred thousand of their own soldiers. Russia is the problem, Russia attacks hospitals, and schools and malls. Russia should withdraw. Period. how I see it is if someone moved into your house took over a few of your bedrooms and shot your dog, you would not negotiate to keep them from shooting your cat by giving them the kitchen, you would (at least I would) ask your neighbor for help with evicting them from your house. This false concern for how many Ukrainians have been killed and not for stopping Russian aggression is disappointing and seems to miss the point in my opinion. We should be arguing with how can we give Ukraine more tools to not just defend themselves but to push the Russians out of their country. More AD, more long range missiles, more F-16s and more armor. How we can punish Russia for their aggression.
All_Pro_Bills Posted August 3 Posted August 3 4 minutes ago, Starr-Bills said: 1. You’re not the arbiter of this discussion. 2. Too many Ukrainians. 3. It Russia who is the aggressor and who is destroying Ukraine, like they did in Chechnya and Georgia, stop blaming the victim. 4. Russia had murdered several hundred thousand of their own soldiers. Russia is the problem, Russia attacks hospitals, and schools and malls. Russia should withdraw. Period. how I see it is if someone moved into your house took over a few of your bedrooms and shot your dog, you would not negotiate to keep them from shooting your cat by giving them the kitchen, you would (at least I would) ask your neighbor for help with evicting them from your house. This false concern for how many Ukrainians have been killed and not for stopping Russian aggression is disappointing and seems to miss the point in my opinion. We should be arguing with how can we give Ukraine more tools to not just defend themselves but to push the Russians out of their country. More AD, more long range missiles, more F-16s and more armor. How we can punish Russia for their aggression. More weapons won't do much good without troops to use them. Zelensky needs to increase conscription or coerce men of military age that fled the country to return. Neither is likely or popular. Otherwise, the only path to victory at this point is direct NATO or US intervention. Given other areas of potential conflict I can't see the administration or the Pentagon supporting that commitment. What the Europeans might do is up to them but direct intervention would be unpopular and costly. The most likely path will be some deal which cedes the ethnic Russian provinces or grants them complete independence from Kiev. Crimea will likely remain in Rusian possession. As it's been for hundreds of years before Kruschev transfered it to Ukraine in the 1950's. Ukraine will be granted EU membership. What happens with NATO membership, not sure. Like it or not that looks like what's going to happen.
Starr-Bills Posted August 3 Posted August 3 2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: More weapons won't do much good without troops to use them. Zelensky needs to increase conscription or coerce men of military age that fled the country to return. Neither is likely or popular. Otherwise, the only path to victory at this point is direct NATO or US intervention. Given other areas of potential conflict I can't see the administration or the Pentagon supporting that commitment. What the Europeans might do is up to them but direct intervention would be unpopular and costly. The most likely path will be some deal which cedes the ethnic Russian provinces or grants them complete independence from Kiev. Crimea will likely remain in Rusian possession. As it's been for hundreds of years before Kruschev transfered it to Ukraine in the 1950's. Ukraine will be granted EU membership. What happens with NATO membership, not sure. Like it or not that looks like what's going to happen. Glad you’re not my neighbor. You might want to check your sources on both Crimea in the “ethically Russian” provinces . We’ll see.
Biden is Mentally Fit Posted August 3 Posted August 3 48 minutes ago, Starr-Bills said: We should be arguing with how can we give Ukraine more tools to not just defend themselves but to push the Russians out of their country. More AD, more long range missiles, more F-16s and more armor. How we can punish Russia for their aggression. A serious failure by the Biden administration. Total disaster. I’m sure future President Harris has a better plan.
Starr-Bills Posted August 3 Posted August 3 1 minute ago, Biden is Mentally Fit said: A serious failure by the Biden administration. Total disaster. I’m sure future President Harris has a better plan. Well not as bad as extorting Ukraine for personal political gain, but not ideal for sure.
Biden is Mentally Fit Posted August 3 Posted August 3 Just now, Starr-Bills said: Well not as bad as extorting Ukraine for personal political gain, but not ideal for sure. Why is it not as bad? You equate Trump’s actions with allowing people to be slaughtered as a result of dawdling? How, in your mind, does that work? I’m eager to hear your thoughts on this.
Doc Posted August 3 Posted August 3 1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said: More weapons won't do much good without troops to use them. Zelensky needs to increase conscription or coerce men of military age that fled the country to return. Neither is likely or popular. Otherwise, the only path to victory at this point is direct NATO or US intervention. Given other areas of potential conflict I can't see the administration or the Pentagon supporting that commitment. What the Europeans might do is up to them but direct intervention would be unpopular and costly. The most likely path will be some deal which cedes the ethnic Russian provinces or grants them complete independence from Kiev. Crimea will likely remain in Rusian possession. As it's been for hundreds of years before Kruschev transfered it to Ukraine in the 1950's. Ukraine will be granted EU membership. What happens with NATO membership, not sure. Like it or not that looks like what's going to happen. A good scare tactic for Trump to use is "be careful voting for Harris Gen Z, you might get drafted to fight in Ukraine."
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