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Scientists create mutated Covid strain in lab that has a 100% kill rate

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Ridgewaycynic2013 Hall of Famer

Ridgewaycynic2013

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6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

***** we're doomed

 

6 months till it escapes this laboratory

 

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Of course.

Never happen.  There will be no customers for all that crap from temu.com. 🤔🤨

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Beck Water All Pro

Beck Water

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On 1/18/2024 at 1:37 PM, Einstein said:

Chinese scientists ‘create’ mutant Coronavirus with 100% kill rate in Mice: Alina Chan reacts

 

https://thehill.com/video/chinese-scientists-‘create’-mutant-coronavirus-with-100-kill-rate-in-mice-alina-chan-reacts/9337257/

 

It's always nice to do a little digging before one propegates fear mongering headlines, and while putting "create" mutant coronavirus isn't as bad as some, there are a lot of them out there.

 

1 hour ago, BringBackFergy said:

@Beck Water Keep us up to date. You know this stuff. 

 

Yeah, I've been following this.  Here's the paper if anyone cares

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.01.03.574008v1.full

Note that biorx server is NOT a peer reviewed journal.  They didn't invite other scientists to look at their study design or results and critique.  That matters.

 

Bottom line up front: it appears real. there are legitimate and real concerns about this kind of work, but the result of this is likely not as alarming as headlines are making it sound.

 

Snopes does a pretty good job dissecting it.  https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/01/18/chinese-mutant-covid-19/

 

First, it's not Sars-CoV2 the virus that causes Covid, it's a pangolin coronavirus GX_P2V that's like a "cousin" of Sars-CoV2, isolated in 2017.

 

Second, the virus mutated while being propagated in cell culture, this wasn't genetic engineering to cause gain of function.  As Snopes notes: "The virus mutated from its original isolate, but it is a bit unfair to claim that the scientists "created" the virus. Since coronaviruses (and viruses in general) are known to rapidly mutate their genetic instructions, it is unsurprising that the virus used in the study mutated from the time it was isolated. In the paper (and in prior research by the same group), the researchers note that this particular variant of GX_P2V contained the mutation because it had better adapted to the cell cultures in which it was grown."

In simple terms, mutating is what RNA viruses do...they're slobs (technical talk: RNA viruses have a naturally lower fidelity of replication, so they incorporate 'mistakes' more often.  Mistakes that provide a competitive advantage to the virus = mutation) 

 

Third, the genetic engineering took place in the mice, who were given gene to express the human receptor proteins Covid binds to and uses to enter cells (technically: hACE2). But of course, that's all the humanity they gave the mice; we don't know how that genetic change affects the murine immune system or how high lethality in hACE2 mice would translate to a human population, or even.....a larger number of mice because.........wait for it.....

 

Fourth: we're talking FOUR mice.  They injected FOUR mice, and they all died.  "All died" is bad, but four is a damned small sample size.  I want to know what the mortality rate in these mice is, in their transgenic mouse facility, under normal conditions.  Lots of other questions.

 

Last but not least, there's a fair amount of moral indignation in the scientific community over this whole line of research and its risks vs. potential learnings and possible benefits in the first place.  Rightfully so IMHO:

Quote

The main concern from scientists revolved around whether the study was worth conducting in the first place, given the inherent risk of the research. Ensuring that research is conducted safely and responsibly has been a major talking point in the field since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic.

 

If it would persuade China to for-real start treating wet markets like a problem and to crack down on the black-market trade in pangolins and pangolin parts, it might do some good.

 

That's all I got for ya right now @BringBackFergy, hope it helps.  If anything unclear, ask.

Edited by Beck Water
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BringBackFergy Hall of Famer

BringBackFergy

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It's always nice to do a little digging before one propegates fear mongering headlines, and while putting "create" mutant coronavirus isn't as bad as some, there are a lot of them out there.

 

 

Yeah, I've been following this.  Here's the paper if anyone cares

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.01.03.574008v1.full

Note that biorx server is NOT a peer reviewed journal.  They didn't invite other scientists to look at their study design or results and critique.  That matters.

 

Bottom line up front: it appears real. there are legitimate and real concerns about this kind of work, but the result of this is likely not as alarming as headlines are making it sound.

 

Snopes does a pretty good job dissecting it.  https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/01/18/chinese-mutant-covid-19/

 

First, it's not Sars-CoV2 the virus that causes Covid, it's a pangolin coronavirus GX_P2V that's like a "cousin" of Sars-CoV2, isolated in 2017.

 

Second, the virus mutated while being propagated in cell culture, this wasn't genetic engineering to cause gain of function.  As Snopes notes: "The virus mutated from its original isolate, but it is a bit unfair to claim that the scientists "created" the virus. Since coronaviruses (and viruses in general) are known to rapidly mutate their genetic instructions, it is unsurprising that the virus used in the study mutated from the time it was isolated. In the paper (and in prior research by the same group), the researchers note that this particular variant of GX_P2V contained the mutation because it had better adapted to the cell cultures in which it was grown."

In simple terms, mutating is what RNA viruses do...they're slobs (technical talk: RNA viruses have a naturally lower fidelity of replication, so they incorporate 'mistakes' more often.  Mistakes that provide a competitive advantage to the virus = mutation) 

 

Third, the genetic engineering took place in the mice, who were given gene to express the human receptor proteins Covid binds to and uses to enter cells (technically: hACE2). But of course, that's all the humanity they gave the mice; we don't know how that genetic change affects the murine immune system or how high lethality in hACE2 mice would translate to a human population, or even.....a larger number of mice because.........wait for it.....

 

Fourth: we're talking FOUR mice.  They injected FOUR mice, and they all died.  "All died" is bad, but four is a damned small sample size.  I want to know what the mortality rate in these mice is, in their transgenic mouse facility, under normal conditions.  Lots of other questions.

 

Last but not least, there's a fair amount of moral indignation in the scientific community over this whole line of research and its risks vs. potential learnings and possible benefits in the first place.  Rightfully so IMHO:

 

If it would persuade China to for-real start treating wet markets like a problem and to crack down on the black-market trade in pangolins and pangolin parts, it might do some good.

 

That's all I got for ya right now @BringBackFergy, hope it helps.  If anything unclear, ask.

So, should the CDC start their own “response” research to look for a vax in the event this thing is unleashed? How do they do that if the virus is unique to China labs (i.e. we don’t have access to this new “super virus”)?

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Beck Water All Pro

Beck Water

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12 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

So, should the CDC start their own “response” research to look for a vax in the event this thing is unleashed? How do they do that if the virus is unique to China labs (i.e. we don’t have access to this new “super virus”)?

 

My take for whatever it's worth, is "Nah". 

For one thing, it's not clear that it's a "super virus" to anything in the wild.  There are a number of things that, if you're forcibly infected with a significant amount, might kill you but that aren't particularly good at spreading on their own.

 

For research on a potential vaccine, we have the published genetic sequence of this ***** (Genbank Accession #MT072864) and the beauty of mRNA vaccines is, that could be all we need.  It's worth having a look at that, and someone probably is.

Edited by Beck Water
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