Do we have a kicker problem?

[Einstein]

Just now, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Only thing i don't love about kicking is its cold, and that tends to lead to worse kicking performance.  If you don't want to kick and potentially throw even more field position their way (block was obviously the worst case), you just go for it.  7 yards and we can run the clock off for a shorter FG or potentially a TD with little to no time on the clock.  

 

Agreed. Either kick or go for it. Punt shouldn’t even be an option IMO.

[Beast]

To answer the OP’s question….yes. At least this year we do.

[Process]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I blame McDermott for that decision too. I often defend him when fans shout about being aggressive. This isn't Madden, sometimes the right decision is the conservative one. The right decision yesterday was to punt. Kickers were struggling going that way, Bass hasn't made one from 49 or longer in literally months, and you are 21-0 up with 2 minutes of the half to play against Mason Rudolph. Pooch punt, try and pin them. Do not give them a chance at a momentum changing play. 

 

I wouldn't have hated going on 4th down.... but if that was in their minds they had to run on 2nd or 3rd down and try and make it 4th and 4 or 5. The FG was the worst of the three options. 

 

Overall though, Bass is a concern. I don't think he has been fully healthy all year, I think it is now in his head and his confidence is low. Wouldn't want to rely on him. 

If you don't want to kick then you go for it. Punting from the 31 yard line should never be a thing, ever. Imo.

[Royale with Cheese]

He is now the kicker that I get nervous every time he's on the field.

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I blame McDermott for that decision too. I often defend him when fans shout about being aggressive. This isn't Madden, sometimes the right decision is the conservative one. The right decision yesterday was to punt. Kickers were struggling going that way, Bass hasn't made one from 49 or longer in literally months, and you are 21-0 up with 2 minutes of the half to play against Mason Rudolph. Pooch punt, try and pin them. Do not give them a chance at a momentum changing play. 

 

I wouldn't have hated going on 4th down.... but if that was in their minds they had to run on 2nd or 3rd down and try and make it 4th and 4 or 5. The FG was the worst of the three options. 

 

Overall though, Bass is a concern. I don't think he has been fully healthy all year, I think it is now in his head and his confidence is low. Wouldn't want to rely on him. 

 

49 yards for Bass shouldn't be a difficult kick for Bass.  I would have kicked it too.  

 

Either kick it or go for it.  I wouldn't have punted.

[GunnerBill]

42 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Love Gunner but I have no idea where he is coming from with this punt stuff.

 

Punting from the 31 yard line, with very little wind, would have been universally panned. The only reason it’s even second guessed is because it was blocked.

 

Imagine if the punt went into the endzone and we gained a whole 11 yards on the punt!

 

And a few drives later the Steelers drove from their own 8 yard line and scored a TD. Yet we are to believe that punting there would have stopped them? I’m skeptical.

 

I said before they tried it "you punt here." You have to play the game situation. The punt was the right option. 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I said before they tried it "you punt here." You have to play the game situation. The punt was the right option. 

 

There is not a coach in the NFL who punts there.

 

(checks notes: Jauron isn’t in the NFL anymore right?)

[UKBillFan]

Unless Bass has a career game or two over the next three games - should the Bills get that far -  I'd be happy to reconsider the position over the close season. Bass has become less and less trustworthy as time has gone on.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

There is not a coach in the NFL who punts there.

 

(checks notes: Jauron isn’t in the NFL anymore right?)

 

Well there should be. If you are playing Kansas City you go for it. 100% of the time. But you are not. You are playing Mason Rudolph leading a dink and dunk offense that can't get deep on you and has 2 minutes to go the distance. I think the VERY best they would have done is score 3 points. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well there should be. If you are playing Kansas City you go for it. 100% of the time. But you are not. You are playing Mason Rudolph leading a dink and dunk offense that can't get deep on you and has 2 minutes to go the distance. I think the VERY best they would have done is score 3 points. 

They did score in 41 seconds after the blocked FG I believe.  Pickens is a big play waiting to happen.

 

In the playoffs, I think you always go for the kill.  Punting at the 31 is way too conservative.

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well there should be. If you are playing Kansas City you go for it. 100% of the time. But you are not. You are playing Mason Rudolph leading a dink and dunk offense that can't get deep on you and has 2 minutes to go the distance. I think the VERY best they would have done is score 3 points. 

 

I honestly would agree with you if it was the 40+ yard line.

 

But the risk of it only being a net 11 field difference is too high.

 

Why not just go for 4th?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

They did score in 41 seconds after the blocked FG I believe.  Pickens is a big play waiting to happen.

 

In the playoffs, I think you always go for the kill.  Punting at the 31 is way too conservative.

 

They scored in 35 seconds, 5 plays, but from the Bills 33 yard line. Also when you are starting deep in your own end inside two minutes your first couple of calls are going to be more conservative. I don't think they score a touchdown from a punt. They might have scored a FG. 

 

Being conservative is bad if you are playing a team who can score quickly. Pittsburgh couldn't. They should have played conservative. 

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I honestly would agree with you if it was the 40+ yard line.

 

But the risk of it only being a net 11 field difference is too high.

 

Why not just go for 4th?

 

I wouldn't have hated going for 4th down the way I hated the FG. But personally I want to give the Steelers in that situation zero free field position. Even if I make them start at the 25 - worst case scenario - I am giving them nothing free. They have got to drive 75 yards and they are starting in their own end. 

 

Fans are encouraged to hate conservative play calling. But there are times when it is the right play. The situation called for conservatism. 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They scored in 35 seconds, 5 plays, but from the Bills 33 yard line. Also when you are starting deep in your own end inside two minutes your first couple of calls are going to be more conservative. I don't think they score a touchdown from a punt. They might have scored a FG. 

 

Being conservative is bad if you are playing a team who can score quickly. Pittsburgh couldn't. They should have played conservative. 

I still wouldn’t punt - too many variables for an expected outcome of an 11 yard change in field position.  But I’d definitely call plays like you’re in 4-down territory and they definitely should’ve run the ball to get down to the two minute warning - Romo was right about that.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

I still wouldn’t punt - too many variables for an expected outcome of an 11 yard change in field position.  But I’d definitely call plays like you’re in 4-down territory and they definitely should’ve run the ball to get down to the two minute warning - Romo was right about that.

 

I agree. If they had got it to say 4th and 3 then my preference would be go for it, over punt. But at 4th and 7 I'd punt. Worst case scenario I am making Mason Rudolph dink and dunk 75 yards in 2 minutes and the first couple of plays they are going to be considering the risk of giving the ball back to the Bills and that makes them call plays differently than starting at the opponents 33 where your whole play book is open to you. 

[Man with No Name]

58 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Love Gunner but I have no idea where he is coming from with this punt stuff.

 

Punting from the 31 yard line, with very little wind, would have been universally panned. The only reason it’s even second guessed is because it was blocked.

 

Imagine if the punt went into the endzone and we gained a whole 11 yards on the punt!

 

And a few drives later the Steelers drove from their own 8 yard line and scored a TD. Yet we are to believe that punting there would have stopped them? I’m skeptical.

Not true. I second guessed it the second I saw Bass run onto the field. Giving the steelers the ball on the 40 with 2:30 to go was not a sound decision. Bass hasn't been good on those kicks in good conditions. His chances were definitely less than 50% as it was. 

[thebug]

I have zero faith that this guy can make a big kick when it matters!

[Einstein]

8 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

Bass hasn't been good on those kicks in good conditions. 

If Bass can't be trusted to hit a 48 yard field goal with clear skies and little-to-no wind, then we are in big trouble.

[The Frankish Reich]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

If Bass can't be trusted to hit a 48 yard field goal with clear skies and little-to-no wind, then we are in big trouble.

True. Back when Norwood went wide right from 47, that was a difficult kick for kickers of his time.

It really isn't (or shouldn't be) anymore, simply because the quality of kickers in general is so much better now.

 

Good article on exactly how good NFL kickers are now:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/12/09/nfl-kickers/

 

"What’s unique about kickers’ success this season is how frequently coaches have trusted them — with justification — from length. NFL teams have attempted 177 field goals of at least 50 yards, already the third most ever and on pace to break the record set last year. Kickers have made 67.2 percent. Jan Stenerud, the first kicker elected to the Hall of Fame, made 66.8 percent of his field goals — from all distances.

Jake Elliott delivered one of the signature moments of the season when he drilled a 59-yard field goal off wet turf, through wind and driving rain to push the Philadelphia Eagles into overtime against the Buffalo Bills on Nov. 26. The circumstances heightened Elliott’s kick, but he is hardly alone. Four kickers this season have made a field goal of at least 60 yards, and 11 have drilled at least one from at least 57."

Edited January 16 by The Frankish Reich

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Love Gunner but I have no idea where he is coming from with this punt stuff.

 

Punting from the 31 yard line, with very little wind, would have been universally panned. The only reason it’s even second guessed is because it was blocked.

 

Imagine if the punt went into the endzone and we gained a whole 11 yards on the punt!

 

And a few drives later the Steelers drove from their own 8 yard line and scored a TD. Yet we are to believe that punting there would have stopped them? I’m skeptical.

Or, imagine deciding to punt and it's blocked.  McDermott wouldn't hear the end of it.

 

As to the OP, yes, I am no longer confident in Bass.  I think it will/should start to be a factor in McD's game management (although I hope McD still opts to try 49 yd FGs).

 

On a side note I was also disappointed with Bass in the New England game and his pathetic non-tackle of the kick returner.  I know he's a kicker but still in the rare instance that he needs to be involved in a tackle I thought he would do it.

[FilthyBeast]

Yes and ST as a whole has been terrible this year outside of Harty's heroics last week.

 

Bass seems really shaky this year and the only silver lining is he can't possibly have a worse game then he did against the Steelers...at least I think, but who on earth has any confidence in him hitting a potential game tying/winning kick against the Chiefs or any other team in the playoffs?

[KOKBILLS]

Yes... Yes we do...