Dubie54 Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Taken as a whole Belichick's, overall record is impressive, but when you look at the one variable, (TB12) that has impacted his record, it's a little less impressive. With TB12: 249-75 (.769) Without TB12, incl. Cleve.: 83-104 (.449) Impossible to say how he would have fared in NE if they had not drafted TB12 in the 7th round, but one thing is for sure, he would not have had the success he has had. Great coach or great QB? 2 2 1 Quote
BBFL Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Tom is Bill, Bill is Tom. Still, so they know, cheating is wrong. 1 1 1 Quote
Long Suffering Fan Posted January 12 Posted January 12 The guy was a special coach. He did amazing things as the D coord of NYGs and got 2 SB rings that way. One, very painfully, at our expense. Then he rebuilt a terrible Browns team and took him to the playoffs. Next he started to rebuild a terrible Pats team. When we look at stats like this, it is misleading because it is two rebuilding periods (without Tom) that are in the numbers. Next, he wins the SB with Tom and, his first year, I'm not sure Tom should get all that credit. I think he has one TD pass that entire playoffs. Later he goes 11-5 (?) with Matt Cassel when Toms out. Next, he dragged Mac Jones to the playoffs. Tom became amazing, but that shouldn't diminish Bill. Just to be clear, I do not like either of them and Bill has been a personal demon for me up until this year. 2 1 2 Quote
DrDawkinstein Posted January 12 Posted January 12 (edited) Amazing coach. GOAT QB. edit: also, I hate this thread for making me say that. Edited January 12 by DrDawkinstein 1 1 Quote
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted January 12 Posted January 12 There’s a lot of legendary coaches that would be just ok if you took their best player away lol. He was also the gm that drafted Tom and the coach that gave him a shot too so I think he deserves some credit for Brady’s success also 1 1 Quote
papazoid Posted January 12 Posted January 12 name the best coaches who didn't have a pro bowl level QB it'll be a very short list 2 Quote
TheyCallMeAndy Posted January 12 Posted January 12 What’s Marvs record without Kelly? Great QBs need great coaches, great coaches need great QBs 1 Quote
T master Posted January 12 Posted January 12 (edited) Every winner has to have a chemistry or a connection with the HC & the staff members that are put around him and both of those have changed since TB 12 has left so it's hard to re invent the wheel once that talent & that connection that came with it is gone . Dabol seemed to have a better play calling acumen for Josh & the long ball but it has taken 2 seasons to find out Dorsey did;t have that same connection so they had to move on and Brady has a better connection or chemistry with Josh than Dorsey . Edited January 12 by T master Quote
FireChans Posted January 12 Posted January 12 36 minutes ago, Dubie54 said: Taken as a whole Belichick's, overall record is impressive, but when you look at the one variable, (TB12) that has impacted his record, it's a little less impressive. With TB12: 249-75 (.769) Without TB12, incl. Cleve.: 83-104 (.449) Impossible to say how he would have fared in NE if they had not drafted TB12 in the 7th round, but one thing is for sure, he would not have had the success he has had. Great coach or great QB? Do Bill Walsh without his QB’s next. who are you comparing him to 1 Quote
May Day 10 Posted January 12 Posted January 12 I was once an 'its all Belichick and the Patriots' 'system' they have. These days, I think it is almost equal Belichick/Brady. Neither would have amounted to anywhere near their historical status without the other (and I am convinced nobody would remember Tom Brady). It was a perfect storm of a coach/staff who was ahead of the curve and would find every single margin to take advantage of for winning. You had a QB who wasnt all that gifted, but was willing to give his entire being to being the greatest and winning. 2 Quote
Process Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Greatest dynasty in sports history and one that will never be repeated. You don't do that with an all time QB and an all time coach. Ridiculous debate IMO. 1 1 Quote
GunnerBill Posted January 12 Posted January 12 41 minutes ago, Dubie54 said: Impossible to say how he would have fared in NE if they had not drafted TB12 in the 7th round, but one thing is for sure, he would not have had the success he has had. They didn't. Quote
Don Otreply Posted January 12 Posted January 12 35 minutes ago, Dubie54 said: Taken as a whole Belichick's, overall record is impressive, but when you look at the one variable, (TB12) that has impacted his record, it's a little less impressive. With TB12: 249-75 (.769) Without TB12, incl. Cleve.: 83-104 (.449) Impossible to say how he would have fared in NE if they had not drafted TB12 in the 7th round, but one thing is for sure, he would not have had the success he has had. Great coach or great QB? How about the cheatingest duo in modern sports history, I mean come on , caught cheating every 4 1/2 years on average for two consecutive decades, who celebrates these sorts of people? Birds of a feather I suspect. 1 2 Quote
papazoid Posted January 12 Posted January 12 43 minutes ago, Dubie54 said: Taken as a whole Belichick's, overall record is impressive, but when you look at the one variable, (TB12) that has impacted his record, it's a little less impressive. With TB12: 249-75 (.769) Without TB12, incl. Cleve.: 83-104 (.449) Impossible to say how he would have fared in NE if they had not drafted TB12 in the 7th round, but one thing is for sure, he would not have had the success he has had. Great coach or great QB? 2008 NE went 11-5 with Matt Cassel 1 Quote
Saxum Posted January 12 Posted January 12 He was able to win with Cassel so it is not all Br*dy but not without his director of cheating and dirty tricks Ernie Adams. The correlation is much higher. 1 1 Quote
BillnutinHouston Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Anyone else catch that in Belicheck's farewell comments yesterday he thanked the video department? 3 Quote
Saxum Posted January 12 Posted January 12 5 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: How about the cheatingest duo in modern sports history, I mean come on , caught cheating every 4 1/2 years on average for two consecutive decades, who celebrates these sorts of people? Birds of a feather I suspect. 3 minutes ago, papazoid said: 2008 NE went 11-5 with Matt Cassel Yes but they still had Ernie Adams going thru rules looking for ways to walk boundaries or at least not be penalized too often. They had Ernie Adams reviewing film looking for referee tendencies. It is a shell game where person moving shells palms ball. 2 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said: Anyone else catch that in Belicheck's farewell comments yesterday he thanked the video department? Yes. Quote
Gugny Posted January 12 Posted January 12 55 minutes ago, Dubie54 said: Taken as a whole Belichick's, overall record is impressive, but when you look at the one variable, (TB12) that has impacted his record, it's a little less impressive. With TB12: 249-75 (.769) Without TB12, incl. Cleve.: 83-104 (.449) Impossible to say how he would have fared in NE if they had not drafted TB12 in the 7th round, but one thing is for sure, he would not have had the success he has had. Great coach or great QB? Greatest coach in NFL history and greatest QB in NFL history. 1 Quote
SoonerBillsFan Posted January 12 Posted January 12 45 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Amazing coach. GOAT QB. edit: also, I hate this thread for making me say that. That sums it up. Quote
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