The Gabe Davis conversation (Allen with and without Gabe)

[H2o]

On 1/8/2024 at 12:28 AM, Einstein said:

Before Gabe was hurt

 

Allen: 4/8 (50%), 67 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT

 

AFTER Gabe left the game

 

Allen: 26/30 (87%), 360 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT

 

Did you know?

 

Over the past two seasons, a little under 40% of Allen's interceptions occur when targeting Gabe Davis? Yet, Davis is not targeting very much...

 

15.2% of the targets, and 38% of the INT's.

And no, I am not saying that Gabe Davis is the sole reason of blame for our offensive failures. Not at all. But for whatever reason, he and Allen are NOT on the same page, and it doesn't seem to be getting better. 

Where is Gabe's mom and his agent, Weo, at?

[CincyBillsFan]

15 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Davis was actually breaking outside when Allen threw it.  Davis then spun and turned towards the inside while the ball was in the air.  The ball was at the spot Davis broke to initially.  Josh was out of time at that point.  It wasn't a guess from Allen.  Its where Davis was going when Allen released the ball.  Davis didn't even look for the ball until after he turned, broke back inside, and it was already intercepted.

Also Allen threw the ball low to better protect it from the DB BEHIND Davis.

[Strethor]

Gabe is a WR #3 who should only be used as a blocker / possession body. The staff thought highly of him and he wasn't able to develop in an ideal situation. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 1/8/2024 at 12:40 AM, Drew21PA said:

He was to blame for a pick AGAIn tonight

 

any REAL #2 catches a TD on that pass

 

Which one?  The one where Allen threw it directly to the other team?  Or the one where he threw it up to no one in particular?

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Also Allen threw the ball low to better protect it from the DB BEHIND Davis.

 

Also the only guy looking at allen at the time of the throw was the DB.  So... don't throw the ball there.  Throw it 15 feet over his head, take the points.  

[Allen2Moulds]

On 1/8/2024 at 1:04 AM, Beck Water said:

 

I’d like to hear from one of our X’s and O’s guys - the first INT was obviously a choice route and Allen and Gabe were on different pages.  I’m thinking Gabe chose correctly (based on coverage).  Anyone?  I know @HoofHearted on a miscue in an earlier game, confirmed Gabe read it correctly though Joe Brady was very diplomatic and took the blame on himself, pointing out that Allen was under duress and had very short time to decide (in that instance)

 

Anyway, the point is - not to interfere with your feelings on Gabe, and I think there are reasons to question whether we should pay him or not.

 

But if Allen is the one who is throwing to the wrong spot based on an option route and the coverage, getting rid of Gabe won’t help.  Allen has to be better and make better decisions.

You could be right, and I can't disagree with this.  However, for whatever reason, as the OP points out, it does seem that almost all of the communication issues are between Josh and Gabe.  I'm sure it's not exclusive with Josh and Gabe, but it's at an alarming rate.  Not seeing that with any of the other receivers. 

Edited January 9 by Allen2Moulds

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Which one?  The one where Allen threw it directly to the other team?  Or the one where he threw it up to no one in particular?

 

Also the only guy looking at allen at the time of the throw was the DB.  So... don't throw the ball there.  Throw it 15 feet over his head, take the points.  

It was an all out blitz with guys closing in on Allen. He didn't have the luxury of confirming that Davis was where HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

On 1/7/2024 at 11:28 PM, Einstein said:

Before Gabe was hurt

 

Allen: 4/8 (50%), 67 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT

 

AFTER Gabe left the game

 

Allen: 26/30 (87%), 360 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT

 

Did you know?

 

Over the past two seasons, a little under 40% of Allen's interceptions occur when targeting Gabe Davis? Yet, Davis is not targeting very much...

 

15.2% of the targets, and 38% of the INT's.

And no, I am not saying that Gabe Davis is the sole reason of blame for our offensive failures. Not at all. But for whatever reason, he and Allen are NOT on the same page, and it doesn't seem to be getting better. 

Singing like Elsa *let him go...let him go... don't want him back anymore...*

 

I have 7 grandkids, don't judge me.

[DieHardBillsFan]

Davis has his moments, but he has just as many when he is not on the same page as Allen and it results in a Turnover. I like him, but he needs to go.

 

Turns out I am writing exactly what the OP said. Excellent points and I completely agree.

Edited January 9 by DieHardBillsFan

[Nephilim17]

On 1/8/2024 at 2:40 PM, Einstein said:

Update: Brian Baldinger says this was in fact an option (choice) route by Gabe Davis. Calls it "miscommunication".

When nearly 40% of INT's are when targeting one player who only receives 15% of the targets... there is a problem.
 

@Beck Water
 

 

On that first INT it's absolutely asinine when Gabe has leverage on the CB going outside to turn back inside where he doesn't have leverage and where there are more bodies. I'm just a fan who plays pick-up ball once or twice every week but I keep going OUT on that route 100 times out of 100.

Am I wrong?

[DCofNC]

3 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

On that first INT it's absolutely asinine when Gabe has leverage on the CB going outside to turn back inside where he doesn't have leverage and where there are more bodies. I'm just a fan who plays pick-up ball once or twice every week but I keep going OUT on that route 100 times out of 100.

Am I wrong?

I think you are.  It was a blitz, the hot route typically turns inside, quicker throw opportunity.  I’m not sure why JA assumed he was going to settle down at the top of the route and that means maybe we are both wrong.

[Billsfan1972]

11 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I think you are.  It was a blitz, the hot route typically turns inside, quicker throw opportunity.  I’m not sure why JA assumed he was going to settle down at the top of the route and that means maybe we are both wrong.

I watch football, never played organized football, but when I saw the play the first thing I thought "where's the Bills receiver, Allen threw it to the spot they were supposed to be?".  Then of course the replay confirmed it was Gabe. 

 

It is a blitz and it is the receivers job to know where to be and be ready for it.  It was a perfect pass where Gabe should have been.  A large physical receiver and a pass where only they can catch it. At worst an incompletion.

 

Aren't these the plays that are practised over & over? 

 

I have a name for gabe "Wrong Page" Davis.🙄

 

  

Edited January 10 by Billsfan1972

[Billsatlastin2018]

On 1/8/2024 at 12:36 AM, UConn James said:

When he went down, I’m a bit chagrined to admit that I kinda cheered.
 

Will have one fabulous game and then the next eight Josh might as well be throwing to Mr. Magoo. No separation, no fight for the ball, running the wrong route / making the wrong break. On Josh’s first INT, Gabe was the target and he was 10 yards away from the ball after cutting inside when Josh was expecting outside / toward sideline. They are absolutely not in sync. Someone else can pay him in the off-season and get him TF out of here.

I’m afraid this is it! You simply cannot get to Week 18 and be out of sync on the route from your QB. Allen 100% expected Davis to break left.The Pass was thrown low and inside… a few steps away!

 

Cletus Davis cuts it inside.

MUST GO!

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I watch football, never played organized football, but when I saw the play the first thing I thought "where's the Bills receiver, Allen threw it to the spot they were supposed to be?".  Then ff course the replay confirmed it was Gabe. 

 

It is a blitz and it is the receivers job to know where to be and be ready for it.  It was a perfect pass where Gabe should have been.  A large physical receiver and a pass where only they can catch it. At worst an incompletion.

 

Aren't these the plays that are practised over & over? 

 

I have a name for gabe "Wrong Page" Davis.🙄

 

  

I think Davis is a “soldier mind”, meaning he can do exactly what he’s told to do, when he should do it.  The second it comes to making his own decision, problem. 
 

I thought he could be more than he is, but we basically have a slower MVS.  I’m sending Beane a copy of Frozen and labeling it from Gabe.

[Chandler#81]

Gabe Who? Our next loss -or the Super Bowl- will be his last as a Bill. Even with his excellent blocking, Shakir has completely replaced him as WR2. Can we upgrade Kahlil in the offseason? Sure. He’s just less replaceable than ‘Big Flame Gabe’.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I watch football, never played organized football, but when I saw the play the first thing I thought "where's the Bills receiver, Allen threw it to the spot they were supposed to be?".  Then of course the replay confirmed it was Gabe. 

 

It is a blitz and it is the receivers job to know where to be and be ready for it.  It was a perfect pass where Gabe should have been.  A large physical receiver and a pass where only they can catch it. At worst an incompletion.

 

Aren't these the plays that are practised over & over? 

 

I have a name for gabe "Wrong Page" Davis.🙄

 

  

 

Yeah we all obviously know.

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah we all obviously know.

Yeah from the "be all & end all"....🙄

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yeah from the "be all & end all"....🙄

 

How do you know which was Gabe was supposed to run and where Allen was supposed to throw the ball?

 

You don't understand the simple nuances of the game and it shows constantly.

Edited January 10 by Royale with Cheese

[NewEra]

12 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I think you are.  It was a blitz, the hot route typically turns inside, quicker throw opportunity.  I’m not sure why JA assumed he was going to settle down at the top of the route and that means maybe we are both wrong.

I disagree.  Bigger WR had the smaller CB apple on his back.  Just turn and body him out.  If he would’ve done that, it was a perfect pass.  Low and only where the War could get a hand on it

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

How do you know which was Gabe was supposed to run and where Allen was supposed to throw the ball?

 

You don't understand the simple nuances of the game and it shows constantly.

Why, because it happens over and over with Gabe.  Allen threw it to a spot where Gabe was going.  Watch the play.  He looks at Davis and throws it.  

 

https://www.miamidolphins.com/video/eli-apple-intercepts-josh-allen-in-the-end-zone

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

30 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I disagree.  Bigger WR had the smaller CB apple on his back.  Just turn and body him out.  If he would’ve done that, it was a perfect pass.  Low and only where the War could get a hand on it

 

That's how it looked to me.  Based on where and when Allen threw the ball, he anticipated Davis would plant and turn around and the ball would have been right there.  Instead Davis planted and then cut to the right.  It's an obvious miscommunication or misunderstanding on a Cover 0 blitz beater.   Unfortunately, it's something that is too frequent between the two.  I'm pretty confident that if Davis simply planted and turned around, that would have been a TD or incomplete pass at worse.

 

Regardless; it's something they need to fix. 

Edited January 10 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine