See yourself out Allen haters!!!!

[Scott7975]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Where on one of Allen's ints did I argue the opposite. And secondly, I have not argued here that David played this perfectly. That has never been the crux of my argument. My argument it is was a mistake from Josh. He threw a ball up that in my mind he should have eaten. It was the first quarter of a football game. 3 points isn't a disaster. No need to guess on a throw. 

 

I don't need to persuade you. Josh Allen told you he was hurting the team. 

 

I'll have to look through and check on it.  I don't remember what game it was because it was quite a while back.  Pretty sure it was one we lost.  It was another Davis option route.  Based on leverage you said Davis ran the right route and Josh was wrong.  This is pretty much the same style play and the leverage says the opposite to that argument from before.  Thats why I didn't understand how it can be both.  Your argument is more clear now. I don't agree with it but I thought you were arguing something else on this play.

 

So yeah, as I said I don't agree with it. At least not completely. I understand the just eat the sack or throw it away and get 3 points argument.  However, I believe the TD play is there and it should be taken.  Had Davis done the right thing, at worst I believe the ball is incomplete.  We disagree but thats ok.

 

As far as what Josh Allen says, I take it with a grain of salt because he will always blame himself even if not his fault.  He did make mistakes this game for sure, but I don't think this was one of them.

[Royale with Cheese]

15 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Convince me otherwise then.  Not just a Josh didnt even see Davis and he had to guess.  Its obvious Allen seen Davis.  He looking right at him while in throwing motion. He puts the ball right to where Davis would be if he continued that route.  Thats what I see.  

 

The other things I see or think are... why would Davis, while the CB has inside leverage and its an all out blitz run a longer style route by cutting back across the defender.  He practically had to plow through him to cut back across.  There isn't time for that stuff with that kind of pass rush.

 

Convince me otherwise.  You may not and probably wont but I would still like to hear your best argument as to why a receiver is correct in doing what Davis did in this situation.  Ya never know, maybe you will say something to convince me.  It's happened before.  Either way I will at least respect your thought process and opinion.

 

Also on one of Allens ints that was similar to this, Davis did the opposite and so did Josh.  You argued that Davis was correct there too.  How can Davis be correct on both?

 

By the way, I did change my mind because of your thought process on the other int.  Allen should have taken Kincaid and got the first down. So see, it does happen.

 

Because that's how slants work.  

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

And there can be disagreements without one calling another a “hater,” or told to “go root for another team.” It’s a message board, nothing has ever been agreed with 100%. Well, except that Star Lotuleile was an incredibly bad signing. Oops, that was hotly debated too!

 

I agree with you, have never said otherwise nor have I ever said that to anyone.  Except maybe someone like FilthyBeast or other obvious troll.

[Scott7975]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Because that's how slants work.  

 

 

This is not a slant route.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

This is not a slant route.

 

It's not a quick designed slant but he runs it like a deep slant.  You can clearly see Davis cutting to the outside before cutting in.

Whether or not he was supposed to go inside or out, we don't know. 

 

If Allen has time to throw it to the spot you think Davis is supposed to be, he has time to throw it 2 yards further over the middle.

The one thing that is not being talked about is Apple's eyes never come off of Allen.  He is in prime position to jump and knock that ball down or even jump the route.

 

[julian]

On the radio yesterday one of the hosts asked the other to guess how many times this year Josh walked off the field to end his day without the lead ? The answer was twice… only TWO times lol.

 

 That’s incredible,

[Herc11]

3 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Lol who said that? I haven’t even seen the biggest haters on the board say something that stupid. Most of them want McD canned, not Allen. 

I already posted the receipts. 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Leverage is how we choose the pattern on an option route. Eli Apple had inside leverage. Gabe should have went to the boundary (which he originally did). That’s why the defender had open hips. Then he decided to stop and fight through the leverage, back toward the defender.

 

 

It was not a sick move. Gabe was not open due to his route running. He only looked open because the defender stopped following him when Allen threw the ball to where he was supposed to.

 

Defender looks at Allen, then stops to catch the ball that Davis abandoned. Gabe is only “open” because the defender stops to catch the INT.

 

 

Not only does it not make sense what Gabe did based on leverage, but also based on the defense. He knew Allen was only going to have a second or two to release the ball. So he ignores his leverage and runs back through it, taking more time than Allen had.

@HoofHearted

When you see the all22, what you think of this play? The first interception.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

This is typical of the passive aggressive stuff that is thrown at Allen all the time.  IMO it's weak as hell:

 

*  "our highest paid player".  I love this one.  I guess because the Bills are paying a lot of money to their elite franchise QB he should get more criticism.  What I see from a contract standpoint is that Allen is underpaid relatve to his production and the teams results on the field. I believe that Murry, Herbert & Watson all make more money then Allen.

 

*  "Allen himself will say he played really bad".  One of the great things about Allen is he takes responsibility and never throws a team mate or coach under the bus.  I love that he's hard on himself.  What I wonder is why some fans insist on being as hard on Allen as he is.  It makes me think they never lived through the purgatory years where bad QBing was the norm for 20 years.

 

 

 

 

I don’t think you know what passive aggressive means. Everything I said was a fact. QBs get way too much credit and blame for everything. It’s the job. Of course him getting paid a lot makes a huge difference. You give rookie Josh passes on things that this Josh doesn’t get. 
 

and Allen is a great leader. But he also knows he makes some poor decisions. This offense has been very inconsistent and it has cost us games. I think we can beat any team in the league. We also lose to any as well. Inconsistent offense and turnovers would be a major reason why. And this is why it will fall in Allen since he is the leader of the team. 
 

we fired the DC of the Bills after multiple top 5 seasons. People wanted McDermott gone. Idiots are talking about firing the Eagles head coach. When you have expectations, the standard gets raised. Every bills fan knows how lucky we are to have Allen. But to achieve this team’s full potential, we need to cut down on the negative stuff.

 

i don’t know why you make this such a personal thing. 

18 minutes ago, julian said:

On the radio yesterday one of the hosts asked the other to guess how many times this year Josh walked off the field to end his day without the lead ? The answer was twice… only TWO times lol.

 

 That’s incredible,

See, this drives me crazy. If we had better, consistent offense, we don’t need to rally against terrible teams like the Jets, Pats, Chargers, and Broncos,l. Our depleted defense kept us in those games. They didn’t need to be close. 

[julian]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t think you know what passive aggressive means. Everything I said was a fact. QBs get way too much credit and blame for everything. It’s the job. Of course him getting paid a lot makes a huge difference. You give rookie Josh passes on things that this Josh doesn’t get. 
 

and Allen is a great leader. But he also knows he makes some poor decisions. This offense has been very inconsistent and it has cost us games. I think we can beat any team in the league. We also lose to any as well. Inconsistent offense and turnovers would be a major reason why. And this is why it will fall in Allen since he is the leader of the team. 
 

we fired the DC of the Bills after multiple top 5 seasons. People wanted McDermott gone. Idiots are talking about firing the Eagles head coach. When you have expectations, the standard gets raised. Every bills fan knows how lucky we are to have Allen. But to achieve this team’s full potential, we need to cut down on the negative stuff.

 

i don’t know why you make this such a personal thing. 

See, this drives me crazy. If we had better, consistent offense, we don’t need to rally against terrible teams like the Jets, Pats, Chargers, and Broncos,l. Our depleted defense kept us in those games. They didn’t need to be close. 

Yeah that’s a certainly valid way of looking at, a just as valid interpretation is even with his flaws, Allen puts his team in position to win virtually every game and had the D held up on a couple late game opportunities maybe the Bills are the 1 seed.

Edited January 10 by julian

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

This is not a slant route.

So Baldy agrees on the first interception as I too thought.....  So since I know nothing (as I admitted I did not play competitive Football)according to @Royale with Cheese, I guess that means neither does Baldy.  Am I right?😜

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It's not a quick designed slant but he runs it like a deep slant.  You can clearly see Davis cutting to the outside before cutting in.

Whether or not he was supposed to go inside or out, we don't know. 

 

If Allen has time to throw it to the spot you think Davis is supposed to be, he has time to throw it 2 yards further over the middle.

The one thing that is not being talked about is Apple's eyes never come off of Allen.  He is in prime position to jump and knock that ball down or even jump the route.

 

It was a low pass to exaclty where a large physical receiver can be the only one to make catch.  That's why it was thrown like that.  At worst an incompletion and 3 points.  No way is it an int. 

Edited January 10 by Billsfan1972

[Einstein]

31 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

@HoofHearted

When you see the all22, what you think of this play? The first interception.

We already talked about it. See here and here.

[HoofHearted]

33 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

@HoofHearted

When you see the all22, what you think of this play? The first interception.

Davis gets pre-snap outside leverage and post-snap outside leverage by the corner. The screenshot Einstein posted makes it look otherwise, but it's only because the corner plays catch technique on Davis. The corners head is behind the receiver, but he still has front-side control. I said this in another thread, but will say it again here - Gabe's not running an option route here. The whole concept of the option is to avoid defenders and run to space - that's not what happened on this play. Gabe was leaning into the DB to make him work further outside before cutting back inside on the bang 8. Additionally, and what's not being mentioned, if Gabe's not the first read then there's a zero percent chance he's running anything out-breaking to the near pylon as a single side receiver because by the time the play develops to that point any separation created at the breakpoint has been covered back up by a DB.

 

Allen tried to make a play - it didn't work out.

[GoBills808]

Just now, HoofHearted said:

Davis gets pre-snap outside leverage and post-snap outside leverage by the corner. The screenshot Einstein posted makes it look otherwise, but it's only because the corner plays catch technique on Davis. The corners head is behind the receiver, but he still has front-side control. I said this in another thread, but will say it again here - Gabe's not running an option route here. The whole concept of the option is to avoid defenders and run to space - that's not what happened on this play. Gabe was leaning into the DB to make him work further outside before cutting back inside on the bang 8. Additionally, and what's not being mentioned, if Gabe's not the first read then there's a zero percent chance he's running anything out-breaking to the near pylon as a single side receiver because by the time the play develops to that point any separation created at the breakpoint has been covered back up by a DB.

 

Allen tried to make a play - it didn't work out.

iirc you said Allen was wrong for the miscommunication w Davis at the end of the Eagles game as well

 

How likely is it that, given how often they're not on the same page compared to say Diggs or Kincaid, it's usually Allen at fault?

[beer can shower]

Interesting reading all the comments on The Bills Franchise Quarterback.
 

Aside from all the aforementioned praise or criticism of Joshua, I have some questions that would be very interesting to be  read if honestly answered.

 

Bills franchise quarterback tends to run into linemen and linebackers when he runs, rarely wanting to slide, and now having players push him into 275+ pounds linemen.  This behavior is not IF an injury will happen it is just WHEN.

    So, are you content with that behavior of a Franchise QB?

 

After reading many of the comments, the vast of them feel that Joshua is THE  Bills offense.
    So, if an injury occurs from this behavior, (HERO BALL, not sliding and being pushed, leaping), and QB  is hurt and lost to the team, are you still okay with His style of play, even though it may cost the team a game or even worse a Super Bowl victory?

    How good a football team do  you feel the Bills will be if their Franchise QB gets hurt and has to miss time?

    

     So, is it  "I will forever ride or die with Josh Allen" and excuse that running behavior and take risk of injury and accept the outcome of Allen missing games?

 

 

[HoofHearted]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

iirc you said Allen was wrong for the miscommunication w Davis at the end of the Eagles game as well

 

How likely is it that, given how often they're not on the same page compared to say Diggs or Kincaid, it's usually Allen at fault?

Without going back and looking at every play I couldn't say.

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, beer can shower said:

Interesting reading all the comments on The Bills Franchise Quarterback.
 

Aside from all the aforementioned praise or criticism of Joshua, I have some questions that would be very interesting to be  read if honestly answered.

 

Bills franchise quarterback tends to run into linemen and linebackers when he runs, rarely wanting to slide, and now having players push him into 275+ pounds linemen.  This behavior is not IF an injury will happen it is just WHEN.

    So, are you content with that behavior of a Franchise QB?

 

After reading many of the comments, the vast of them feel that Joshua is THE  Bills offense.
    So, if an injury occurs from this behavior, (HERO BALL, not sliding and being pushed, leaping), and QB  is hurt and lost to the team, are you still okay with His style of play, even though it may cost the team a game or even worse a Super Bowl victory?

    How good a football team do  you feel the Bills will be if their Franchise QB gets hurt and has to miss time?

    

     So, is it  "I will forever ride or die with Josh Allen" and excuse that running behavior and take risk of injury and accept the outcome of Allen missing games?

 

 

And we saw the Bills offense when Allen stopped running.  Maybe Lamar, Hurts and Fields shouldn't run either because eventually they'll get hurt.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Without going back and looking at every play I couldn't say.

I'm just asking you how likely you think it is

[beer can shower]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And we saw the Bills offense when Allen stopped running.  Maybe Lamar, Hurts and Fields shouldn't run either because eventually they'll get hurt.

Reread the post !!
It was about how Joshua runs.   Nothing about stopping his running !

Edited January 10 by beer can shower

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just now, beer can shower said:

Reread the post !!
It was about how Joshua runs.

 

Lame, go back to the Fins board.