Aussie Joe Posted January 4 Posted January 4 8 minutes ago, BearNorth said: Douglas has a $9MM cap hit next year in his contract, but he will also be 30 in August. With his size and [meh] speed do you move him to safety eventually. Not sure that a 30 yr old CB is going to get a lot of top dollar offers. Gilmore is playing this year on an $10MM contract. I could see him signing a 3 yr deal this off-season for $7-8 m per year … half guaranteed … He is the best CB on the team at the moment and that’s where he will play in 2024 .. 1 Quote
JohnNord Posted January 4 Posted January 4 19 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Below is the complete list of players that we have under contract next season, by position. Players in italics have an out in their contract after this season: QB: Josh Allen RB: James Cook Nyheim Hines FB: Reggie Gilliam WR: Stefon Diggs Khalil Shakir Deonte Harty Justin Shorter TE: Dalton Kincaid Dawson Knox Zach Davidson OL: Dion Dawkins Connor McGovern Mitch Morse O'Cyrus Torrence Spencer Brown - Ryan Bates Ryan Van Demark Tommy Doyle Alec Anderson DE: Von Miller Greg Rousseau Kingsley Jonathan DT: Ed Oliver LB: Matt Milano Terrel Bernard Dorian Williams Baylon Spector CB: Rasul Douglas Christian Benford Tre'Davious White Taron Johnson Kaiir Elam Siran Neal S: Jordan Poyer Damar Hamlin ST: Tyler Bass Sam Martin Reid Ferguson We currently sit $41.4 million over the cap. I'm sure Beane has different restructure and cut plans in place already to get us under. But there is a lot of work to be done. Though it is good to see so much of our core in place. Beane did a good job accumulating draft picks and I believe he’ll use these to trade up. There’s to be a lot of holes on defense especially in the secondary and d-line. My fear is that they go heavy on defense and ignore the WR position or fill it with “value” FA’s. The position needs an upgrade and the Bills have to start thinking of life after Diggs in a season or two Quote
gordong Posted January 4 Posted January 4 nice there are 44 players but gotta find a way to keep Floyd, and DJ... Quote
BillsFanForever19 Posted January 5 Author Posted January 5 (edited) 18 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said: Don't be ridiculous. If Tre was healthy he would 100% be starting over these guys. Tre White is an all pro. Benford is a good corner and so is Douglas, but the Bills would much rather have a healthy Tre White, as would most of the league Over Benford? Yes. Over Douglas though, it depends. Healthy how? Like before the Achilles or before the ACL? Before the ACL, absolutely. He was a top 5-10 CB in the league. After the ACL though - he never returned fully to form. He looked better this season than he did when he came back last year. But he had yet to return to the same player he was before the Achilles happened. Douglas right now is performing better than he has since the ACL happened. And post Achilles, he's not going to be starting over either. 15 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: Tre White is going to be back, and will be good. According to Rodgers, Tre was at the Achilles factory with him and Dobbins, rehabbing away like crazy. Also, from what I've seen/read, Achilles recovery is now a pretty sure thing, like a broken bone, but just takes a long time. Tre should be good to go, especially since he didn't rush anything and stretch it out prematurely. If you let it heal the right way it has a high success rate. Better than a knee because it's straightforward. I'm not going to say it's impossible, it's just HIGHLY unlikely what you're saying is true. He never returned to 100% form after the ACL tear before he tore his Achilles. It occured in November of 2021 and when September 2024 comes around, he'll have played a grand total of 10 games in that almost 3 years. He's missed a LOT of NFL football, will be 29 years old, and is coming off not one, but two injuries that cause players to lose a step. All the while, he's on a contract that pays him as one of the top CB's in the NFL, that has an out after this season, and we're in cap hell. We've also replaced him on the roster with someone who is playing incredibly well and will be here next season. And a young, in their prime long term starter with a clean bill of health on the other side of him. It's a massive question mark as to whether or not he can even be a semblance of the same player. And we're paying him as if he is the same guy. If we were in a better spot financially, I'd say *maybe* we could try and be patient with him for his past contributions to the team. But we're not and that tough business decision is more of a no brainer because of it. Especially when we already have two very good CB's starting and holes in starting positions all over the roster. Edited January 5 by BillsFanForever19 1 Quote
BillsFanForever19 Posted January 5 Author Posted January 5 (edited) 10 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: I could see him signing a 3 yr deal this off-season for $7-8 m per year … half guaranteed … He is the best CB on the team at the moment and that’s where he will play in 2024 .. He WAS the best CB on this roster. But it will be almost 3 years and two serious injuries between then and Week 1 of the 2024 season. After his injury in November of 2021 and before his Achilles tear earlier this season, he didn't return to that same form. He looked better this year than he did last and made some progress, but he wasn't the same shutdown Top 5 CB. And now after the Achilles and the way Douglas is playing - that declaration or projection is, at the very least, highly suspect. Edited January 5 by BillsFanForever19 Quote
Aussie Joe Posted January 5 Posted January 5 (edited) 4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: He WAS the best CB on this roster. But it will be almost 3 years and two serious injuries between then and Week 1 of the 2024 season. After his injury in November of 2021 and before his Achilles tear earlier this season, he didn't return to that same form. He looked better this year than he did last and made some progress, but he wasn't the same shutdown Top 5 CB. And now after the Achilles and the way Douglas is playing - that declaration or projection is, at the very least, highly suspect. Im talking about Douglas …you are confusing yourself Edited January 5 by Aussie Joe Quote
BBFL Posted January 5 Posted January 5 On 1/3/2024 at 8:43 PM, BillsFanForever19 said: Agreed. It's sad White will go out this way. But there's no way we can pay him in 2024 and 2025 what we're scheduled to pay him in the condition he's in. Being injured, it will have to come in the form of a settlement. But in the situation we're in, we need space anywhere we can get it and with the injuries he sustained, we can't continue to pay him what we signed him to before those injuries happened. And we've already replaced him in the Starting Lineup and are in relatively good shape at CB as a whole. Poyer is a little trickier. Releasing him would leave us absolutely nowhere at Safety. But he has a 7.5m cap hit next season and I don't think he's playing to that and we can likely find a better option cheaper and save some cap on top of it. I think Harty and Bates are probably gone as well. Though with Bates, maybe we can restructure his deal or he'd take a pay cut. He is very important depth. Martin has performed well at times, but his release could save a little in 2024 and another 2.28 in 2025 and it is only the Punter position. Agree with you man. You can’t be out the door without both Hyde and Poyer. Believe one of the two will be back on a friendly deal; likely P.O. due to health. Biggest concern is that position outside WR. Martin holds the ball far too long IMO which is the cause for his rougher punts; can’t force a slow guy to rush his job in any Avenue. Quote
GunnerBill Posted January 5 Posted January 5 7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: He never returned to 100% form after the ACL tear before he tore his Achilles. I disagree with this to an extent.... but it was very small sample size. He was very good week 3 at Washington and then I'd argue week 4 vs the Dolphins was one of Tre's best 3 games as a Buffalo Bill. He was absolutely lock down in that game. But I agree that last season and even the first couple of games of this we hadn't seen close to the pre-ACL White. But I honestly think that is why he was so upset when the achilles happened - he knew those last two games were finally the real Tre White it had taken him so long to feel like that and he got less than two full games to enjoy it before another bad injury. 2 Quote
dave mcbride Posted January 5 Posted January 5 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I disagree with this to an extent.... but it was very small sample size. He was very good week 3 at Washington and then I'd argue week 4 vs the Dolphins was one of Tre's best 3 games as a Buffalo Bill. He was absolutely lock down in that game. But I agree that last season and even the first couple of games of this we hadn't seen close to the pre-ACL White. But I honestly think that is why he was so upset when the achilles happened - he knew those last two games were finally the real Tre White it had taken him so long to feel like that and he got less than two full games to enjoy it before another bad injury. Achilles tears aren't nearly the death knell that they used to be and I'm curious to see if he can make a full comeback to the player he was in weeks 3 and 4 of this season. Quote
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 5 Posted January 5 9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Over Benford? Yes. Over Douglas though, it depends. Healthy how? Like before the Achilles or before the ACL? Before the ACL, absolutely. He was a top 5-10 CB in the league. After the ACL though - he never returned fully to form. He looked better this season than he did when he came back last year. But he had yet to return to the same player he was before the Achilles happened. Douglas right now is performing better than he has since the ACL happened. And post Achilles, he's not going to be starting over either. I'm not going to say it's impossible, it's just HIGHLY unlikely what you're saying is true. He never returned to 100% form after the ACL tear before he tore his Achilles. It occured in November of 2021 and when September 2024 comes around, he'll have played a grand total of 10 games in that almost 3 years. He's missed a LOT of NFL football, will be 29 years old, and is coming off not one, but two injuries that cause players to lose a step. All the while, he's on a contract that pays him as one of the top CB's in the NFL, that has an out after this season, and we're in cap hell. We've also replaced him on the roster with someone who is playing incredibly well and will be here next season. And a young, in their prime long term starter with a clean bill of health on the other side of him. It's a massive question mark as to whether or not he can even be a semblance of the same player. And we're paying him as if he is the same guy. If we were in a better spot financially, I'd say *maybe* we could try and be patient with him for his past contributions to the team. But we're not and that tough business decision is more of a no brainer because of it. Especially when we already have two very good CB's starting and holes in starting positions all over the roster. No matter what happens with Tre - you can't keep him at the dollars he's currently at. If he excels here or elsewhere, it will not be at that contract. 1 3 Quote
GunnerBill Posted January 5 Posted January 5 14 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: No matter what happens with Tre - you can't keep him at the dollars he's currently at. If he excels here or elsewhere, it will not be at that contract. Yea agreed. I do think the Bills have some leverage to re-negotiate though. They are on the hook for $10m of dead cap already paid that they have to account for somewhere, but there is no guaranteed new money on Tre's deal. So they can offer him some guarantees for him lowering his overall number. There is an incentive for both sides to do that deal. I think it is 60/40 that Tre is back, but it won't be on the current contract as it stands. Quote
BigAl2526 Posted January 6 Posted January 6 On 1/3/2024 at 10:26 PM, BuffBillsForLife said: The most important question: can Elam play safety? I don't see that happening. The skills that Buffalo needs in their safeties are a lot more like the skill set of a good zone CB rather than a man coverage. Zone coverage is exactly what Elam struggles with. I think Elam either figures out how to play CB in Buffalo's system or he's done. I agree with those who think Benford is the more likely player to switch to safety. 1 Quote
BillsFanForever19 Posted January 6 Author Posted January 6 (edited) On 1/5/2024 at 10:25 AM, Bleeding Bills Blue said: No matter what happens with Tre - you can't keep him at the dollars he's currently at. If he excels here or elsewhere, it will not be at that contract. And that's where it gets tricky. How do you quantify in dollars the estimation of the type of player he will be when he returns? It's a complete unknown. As I said earlier, when he returns, he'll have played a total of 10 games the last 3 years. He'll be coming off not 1, but 2 injuries that cause a player to lose a step and will be closer to 30 than 29 on top of that. Even if he didn't take those step losing injuries, he may have just naturally lost a step bc of age. Honestly, if he were on the market, all he'd be offered is incentive laden prove it deals because at this point, you just don't know what you have. I love Tre and appreciate his past contributions. But when you take everything I said, combine it with our cap situation, the fact that we replaced him already, and that we have an out to free ourselves of his cap hit this year and next year built into his contract for this offseason - fans really need to remove emotions from the equation. It's a really obvious, albeit rough, business decision. Edited January 6 by BillsFanForever19 Quote
BillsFanForever19 Posted January 6 Author Posted January 6 (edited) On 1/4/2024 at 5:38 AM, Chewmylegoff said: Overthecap suggests there is an out in Hines’ contract - indeed he looks like the most obvious cut with a $5m cap saving. Interesting. I went off Spotrac and while they list outs for all of the players I listed, they did not list an out for Hines. I think that's a no brainer if there is one in his deal. As is most of the options to get out from under, save for McGovern and Bates. But then again.... as @Beck Water so eloquently put it: Quote I dunno if the cap is a myth or the cap isn't a myth, but the Bills have said they want Hines to play for them next season. Hines has said he expects to play for the Bills next season. Hines didn't fight losing his salary of $2.5M and the Bills didn't try to recover his $500k signing bonus......Hines is getting basically, maximum PS money this season ($940k) I don't think it takes a dot-connecting genius to infer that Beane promised Hines he would be on the team next season in exchange for getting the cap relief with no negative PR/grievance filed this season. I think there's a bunch of other moves on Tompsett's list the Bills won't make, but the essential point is correct, there are moves to be made. So probably not. That makes a LOT of sense. Edited January 6 by BillsFanForever19 Quote
BillsFanForever19 Posted January 6 Author Posted January 6 (edited) On 1/4/2024 at 8:52 AM, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Safety? Look, it's not an ideal situation and I know people will flame me here but with an injury settlement the Bills will be getting very little while losing a former All-Pro. We have a big hole at safety and Tre's strengths have never been speed but instinct and technique, which would serve him well as a FS. He's actually really close to Hyde and Poyer's measurables. Again NOT A PERFECT FIT, but with an injury settlement we are getting very little cap space back while losing a player who has shown a lot of talent. People keep pointing to the overall savings on Tre White this year and neglect to take into account - he also has a 16.7m cap hit in 2025 that would come off the books. And this is the Offseason to get out from under that as well. We can't be on the hook for that number next season in the condition he's in. Even minimal savings this year while getting out of next year's massive number is something that pretty much has to be done. Edited January 6 by BillsFanForever19 Quote
ColoradoBills Posted January 6 Posted January 6 On 1/4/2024 at 2:32 PM, gordong said: nice there are 44 players but gotta find a way to keep Floyd, and DJ... Actually, it's only 39 players. Floyd, Hyde, Jones, Settle and Matakevich are all on void contacts. They are getting paid but not technically on the team to start the new season. Quote
Luka Posted January 6 Posted January 6 (edited) On 1/4/2024 at 6:29 AM, GunnerBill said: No. The biggest flaw in his game is his transitions (i.e go from moving backwards to moving forwards or from moving laterally to moving vertically). If you can't transition smoothly as a safety you are toast. Completely false. He doesn't like to tackle. That's the issue. He graded out as one of the best cover corners in the league the final stretch of the season last year covering a couple of the biggest names in football. He doesn't play the run. He isn't physical enough to play in an undersized zone scheme where corners are frequently relied on to set the edge. So asking him to come downhill and fill gaps in the run game is out of the question. Edited January 6 by Luka 1 Quote
GunnerBill Posted January 6 Posted January 6 1 hour ago, Luka said: Completely false. He doesn't like to tackle. That's the issue. He graded out as one of the best cover corners in the league the final stretch of the season last year covering a couple of the biggest names in football. He doesn't play the run. He isn't physical enough to play in an undersized zone scheme where corners are frequently relied on to set the edge. So asking him to come downhill and fill gaps in the run game is out of the question. Playing the run is not a strength, agreed. But his biggest weakness is his transitions. Always has been. It is why he excels in man coverage and struggles in what should be the comparatively easier discipline of playing zone. You have to be able to go from dropping to attacking in an instant and he can't. His long limbs kinda get in his own way. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.