Congrats to Pro Bowlers James Cook and Dion Dawkins!

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Coldfronts said:

hard to believe Josh has only 2 pro bowl seasons....ridged 

The NFL flat hates him for some reason.

[VW82]

Dawkins is somewhat surprising but nice to see. Cook deserved this. Amazing how many doubters he had right from the start. 

 

I think Taron Johnson should make it every year.

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, DapperCam said:

I think I remember from last year when Lamar Jackson inexplicably got the pro bowl over Allen, it came out that the big difference was the player portion of the vote.

 

Basically the players hate Josh Allen’s guts and won’t vote for him. They all seem to be buddies with Lamar Jackson, so he got the nod (despite not deserving it at all).

 

I have to imagine something similar happened this year. My conspiracy theory is he hasn’t been able to shake the reputation from the pre-draft tweets.

Do you have any articles on this? I didn't see that last year

 

CJ Stroud, even with the injury, was more deserving than Tua, Allen, and Mahomes. He had a 4 to 1 TD/INT ratio. Nobody did that this year. 

Edited January 4 by Mikie2times

[Slack_in_MA]

Throw a log on that internal fire and let it burn boys…

[John from Riverside]

Happy for Dawkins, and Cook they have had very very good years
 

People through a lot of shade, James Cook over this season

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, beebe said:

 

If you throw out the goal line runs for Allen, his play this year definitely a peg below his prior years. His entire MVP candidacy has essentially been his ability to score inside the 5 yard line. Tons of bad games on the year. Which has been true across the league with QBs. Defenses definitely punched back this year in a major way.

 

So, when a RB scores 15 TD's from inside the 3-yard line nobody says jack. In fact, it is quite impressive of them they say. But when Allen scores 15 TDs with the majority of them not inside the 3-yard line it is somehow not as impressive?

[Dr.Sack]

Mahomes with a lifetime achievement nomination. Thank you for playing. 

[beebe]

5 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Do you have any articles on this? I didn't see that last year

 

CJ Stroud, even with the injury, was more deserving than Tua, Allen, and Mahomes. He had a 4 to 1 TD/INT ratio. Nobody did that this year. 

 

INTs are a mostly useless stat. Best guess: A player with single-digit INTs likely isn't taking enough chances and is therefore playing the position suboptimally. Russell Wilson had 26 TDs and eight INTs this year. So on a per-game basis, he had slightly more TD passes than Allen, and half the INTs. His completion percentage was higher. His QB rating was better.

 

And.....who cares.

 

If you watch Wilson, he's ultra careful with the ball, rarely makes difficult throws, takes a ton of sacks (avoiding sacks is the superpower of actual good QBs like Mahomes and Allen) and throws the ball away a ton. He is league average at absolute best, and likely below average in his current form. But traditional stats, rather than better measures like EPA, ends up ruling the day and becomes the narratives. 

 

Too much is made of Allen's INTs (I'd guess half of them came on downfield throws that QBs like Wilson wouldn't attempt) and his rushing TDs (most of these are a result of goal line variance, where Cook gets them down to the 1 yard line and Allen plunges it in for the finisher). Obviously rushing TDs are a nice stat and all, but those extra TDs, if we're being honest, formed the basis for his entire MVP candidacy. Because all of his passing stats were down this year relative to his better seasons. And again, much of that was due to defenses dominating the league this year - a whole bunch of QBs had it rough. 

[warrior9]

1 hour ago, beebe said:

 

If you throw out the goal line runs for Allen, his play this year definitely a peg below his prior years. His entire MVP candidacy has essentially been his ability to score inside the 5 yard line. Tons of bad games on the year. Which has been true across the league with QBs. Defenses definitely punched back this year in a major way.

You really understand football at a very high level. 

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, beebe said:

 

INTs are a mostly useless stat. Best guess: A player with single-digit INTs likely isn't taking enough chances and is therefore playing the position suboptimally. Russell Wilson had 26 TDs and eight INTs this year. So on a per-game basis, he had slightly more TD passes than Allen, and half the INTs. His completion percentage was higher. His QB rating was better.

 

And.....who cares.

 

If you watch Wilson, he's ultra careful with the ball, rarely makes difficult throws, takes a ton of sacks (avoiding sacks is the superpower of actual good QBs like Mahomes and Allen) and throws the ball away a ton. He is league average at absolute best, and likely below average in his current form. But traditional stats, rather than better measures like EPA, ends up ruling the day and becomes the narratives. 

 

Too much is made of Allen's INTs (I'd guess half of them came on downfield throws that QBs like Wilson wouldn't attempt) and his rushing TDs (most of these are a result of goal line variance, where Cook gets them down to the 1 yard line and Allen plunges it in for the finisher). Obviously rushing TDs are a nice stat and all, but those extra TDs, if we're being honest, formed the basis for his entire MVP candidacy. Because all of his passing stats were down this year relative to his better seasons. And again, much of that was due to defenses dominating the league this year - a whole bunch of QBs had it rough. 

I was good after that line. 

[beebe]

1 minute ago, warrior9 said:

You really understand football at a very high level. 

 

Which of Allen's games this year rank among the top 10 or 15 of his career? From October through last weekend, I would say none of them, though he did have a nice overall day vs the Eagles in a game they should have won. This was a down year by his standards outside the three September games following the Jets debacle.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

 

This stuff all goes on post career resume. Josh get nothing.  Meanwhile with 2 MVPs Lamar is probably being fitted for his gold jacket regardless of whether they win a SB or not

Even more irritating is that in 2020 Allen had a superior season to Jackson the prior year when he was unanimous MVP and lost out cause Rodgers had an all-time season.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

9 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

and his rushing TDs (most of these are a result of goal line variance, where Cook gets them down to the 1 yard line and Allen plunges it in for the finisher). 

 

Except, I would wager that a lot of the times Allen is the one getting the tough yards down inside the 5-yard line as well. Either by using his legs or making the throws to the receivers to get the ball down there. 

[beebe]

3 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I was good after that line. 

 

Interceptions leaders by year.

 

2023: Howell, Allen, Mahomes, Hurts, Goff.

2022: Prescott, Mills, Cousins, Carr, Allen.

2021: Stafford, Lawrence, Heinecke, Allen, Herbert.

 

Fewest interceptions by year (min 12 games):

 

2023: Zack Wilson, Herbert, Lamar, Prescott, Carr/Wilson

2022: Daniel Jones, Hurts, Brissett, Tannehill, Lamar

2021: Rodgers, Taysom Hill, Russell Wilson, Wentz, Cousins

[CaptnCoke11]

Yay! pro bowl 

[uninja]

1 hour ago, UKBillFan said:

Score the most number of TDs as a QB… be an alternate. The turnover storyline has really done a number on Josh. Bet Mahomes has still made it, despite his count not being that much lower. Jackson is obvious. Who’s the third? Tua?

 

It's a popularity contest, plain and simple.

[Blank Stare]

Glorified popularity contest. Even with that said, as many others have said, it’s a damn shame that Josh and Ed aren’t voted to the roster. Ed should be an all-pro this year. As a team, you could argue we’ve had a mild year, but Josh is crushing the league in TDs. 
 

***** like this really starts to piss me off. Mahomes will have 2 MVPs and 2 superbowl MVPs on his resume while Lamar is likely to have 2 MVPs on his resume. Not saying they haven’t earned that recognition (though I’d argue CMC should be MVP in a QB down year this year over Lamar), but people not appreciating Josh year after year is getting flat out old. All because of some pre-draft bias about his ability to make the jump. The guy is true rags to riches. Zero star recruit with no D1 offers out of HS. He goes out there and shuts up all the doubters…the true American underdog story that everyone typically eats up, and people still can’t let it go. Continue to ***** on him. It’s exhausting for me, so I can’t even imagine what that has been like for him. Yes, he can sit on his big pile of cash at the end of the day, but that nonsense has to get to you as a human being eventually. 

Edited January 4 by Blank Stare

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Of the entire team lol what a joke. We have some monsters on defense. Please just take fan votes away from the pro bowl and let maybe the players and coaches vote or something. I mean also put it after the Super Bowl, back in Hawaii and make it tackle again but that’s a whole other thing.

[wppete]

Absolutely insane Ed Oliver is not in the Pro Bowl! 

[PatsFanNH]

I can’t believe Allen didn’t get in over Tua. I’m not shocked by Mahomes being in, he is an easily recognized name that everyone votes for.  The amount of snubs at WR was also amazing! 

 

The only snub for my team would be Baremore. That man is a beast and IMO the best at his position in the AFC.  

1 hour ago, beebe said:

 

INTs are a mostly useless stat. Best guess: A player with single-digit INTs likely isn't taking enough chances and is therefore playing the position suboptimally. Russell Wilson had 26 TDs and eight INTs this year. So on a per-game basis, he had slightly more TD passes than Allen, and half the INTs. His completion percentage was higher. His QB rating was better.

 

And.....who cares.

 

If you watch Wilson, he's ultra careful with the ball, rarely makes difficult throws, takes a ton of sacks (avoiding sacks is the superpower of actual good QBs like Mahomes and Allen) and throws the ball away a ton. He is league average at absolute best, and likely below average in his current form. But traditional stats, rather than better measures like EPA, ends up ruling the day and becomes the narratives. 

 

Too much is made of Allen's INTs (I'd guess half of them came on downfield throws that QBs like Wilson wouldn't attempt) and his rushing TDs (most of these are a result of goal line variance, where Cook gets them down to the 1 yard line and Allen plunges it in for the finisher). Obviously rushing TDs are a nice stat and all, but those extra TDs, if we're being honest, formed the basis for his entire MVP candidacy. Because all of his passing stats were down this year relative to his better seasons. And again, much of that was due to defenses dominating the league this year - a whole bunch of QBs had it rough. 

Stroud played amazing this year and was even in MVP talks before he got that nasty concussion from a late hit.  Let’s not forget the talent he has around him and the lack of experience as wel compared to Allen and Mahomes… and For dang sure Tua.. imagine the numbers Stroud put up with Hill and Waddle to throw to? Lol