Allen shoulder injury

[EasternOHBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Aimee75 said:

Wow, just wow! Fans like you make my chaotic side long for another QB carousel stretch, and it most likely will happen once Josh retires. I can't wait. How ridiculously spoiled and entitled Bills fans have become.

 

What is the point of winning 10+ games a season only to not even make it to the Super Bowl? I've been a fan for decades and the pain of losing Homerun Throwback or off of Flutie turnovers and the Dolphins (their last playoff win) or to the Jags TWICE or 13 seconds or laying an egg v. the Bengals is MORE than just having losing seasons with AVP, Collins, Losman, Edwards or Tryrod as QB. Give me a break... this team had a TON of talent and it's been wasted and Josh has to share at least some of that blame... not all, not mostly, but some.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

Gaaaaaaah!

 

So Buffalo Bills Injury report just came out

 

Allen is on the injury report for "Neck" and "Right finger"

 

Finger on his throwing hand

 

Please remove sharp objects from my vicinity

 

 

I knew it.

 

I saw him keep shaking his right hand during the game.

 

Maybe a broken finger like Herbert ?

[bills742]

4 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I knew it.

 

I saw him keep shaking his right hand during the game.

 

Maybe a broken finger like Herbert ?

I think that's the stinger that's traveling down to his finger. If so, probably nothing to see here. 

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, bills742 said:

I think that's the stinger that's traveling down to his finger. If so, probably nothing to see here. 

 

The stinger supposedly occurred on the last play before he left the game and Kyle Allen came in.

 

11 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I knew it.

 

I saw him keep shaking his right hand during the game.

 

Maybe a broken finger like Herbert ?

 

I dunno, but when I've injured a hand and when my daughter has broken fingers, shaking her hand has been the last thing she wants to do.

[ALG1130]

12 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

What is the point of winning 10+ games a season only to not even make it to the Super Bowl? I've been a fan for decades and the pain of losing Homerun Throwback or off of Flutie turnovers and the Dolphins (their last playoff win) or to the Jags TWICE or 13 seconds or laying an egg v. the Bengals is MORE than just having losing seasons with AVP, Collins, Losman, Edwards or Tryrod as QB. Give me a break... this team had a TON of talent and it's been wasted and Josh has to share at least some of that blame... not all, not mostly, but some.

So Josh is the reason we have not made the SB? Josh has gotten us close. You think going to the SB is easy? Some teams have never gone at all. We may never get there. A whole bunch of things need to align to get there. Lamar has never been, but his team went out in the off season and got him some legit weapons, and they may get there because of that. For the Bills, it's been year after year of expecting Josh to put on a cape and be Superman. It's not fair to him. He can't carry the team alone, but he has come pretty damn close. It's just silly to wish for another QB because the one you have right now, one who is regarded right up there with Mahomes, has not taken the team to the SB. It's not like we are going 7-9 every season. 

[JohnNord]

23 hours ago, HappyDays said:

It has been theorized by many that Allen has been struggling with some kind of shoulder injury this season. Apparent confirmation here:

 

FWIW CJ Caggiano is a reputable insider, I've followed him for a while. Every year he has schedule leaks that turn out to be correct, and he has given a couple injury updates that turned out to be correct as well.

 

Take the info how you will, but if true it could possibly explain some of the recent mechanical issues Allen has had on some of his throws.

I don’t buy this at all.  First off who in the blue hell is CJ Caggiano and how does he have better sources than anyone else in the NFL.  
 

Smell the BS

[Straight Hucklebuck]

10 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I don’t buy this at all.  First off who in the blue hell is CJ Caggiano and how does he have better sources than anyone else in the NFL.  
 

Smell the BS

Well maybe he does have a source, but we know it's not something like a Grade 3 AC-joint sprain that you physically can't play though, or a Drew Brees-esque complete rotator cuff tear, or a broken scapula, or whatever else. 

 

If he's playing through it, structurally it has to be intact. 

 

I think Bills fans jump to the he must be secretly hurt more card a lot whenever a player doesn't play well. 

We know he's got a ton of bumps and bruises. He took huge shots on that shoulder in the Giants game. He got drilled in the head in the Patriots game. 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

There was no additional context that was relevant. I see you bolded "may be reportable", which is irrelevant, considering our situation involves a key player that the very next paragraph states clearly "must be listed".

Therefore, the entire context for the situation we are speaking of, was included...

 

I should probably let this go but...

 

You were responding to this post:

20 hours ago, johndhall1 said:

If he didn’t receive treatment, they don’t have to report it.

 

You posted this:

 

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

FYI - The following is direct from the NFL:

 

 

The full context is relevant, because when you look at the entirety of the NFL's blurb, we see this:

Quote

Some injuries are automatically reportable because they result in the player’s unavailability or
limited availability to the club. These include any injury that:
(a) causes the player to miss a game;
(b) prevents the player from finishing a game;
(c) causes the player to miss a practice (Did Not Participate);
(d) limits the player’s participation in practice (Limited Participation); or
(e) prevents the player from finishing a practice (Limited Participation).

 

So @johndhall1 has a point that if (a) through (e) aren't true, it isn't true that the injury MUST be reported.  He is incorrect about treatment being the deciding factor though.  it's missing a game or part of a game, or missing a practice or part of a practice.

 

Then we get to the "weasel words" section, in which, even if (a) through (e) aren't true

Quote

Other injuries may be reportable because of their effect upon the player’s performance despite his continuing availability to the club.

 

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

Basically, if an injury has the possibility to affect a players performance, it must be reported.

 

That's simply not true.  We have "may be" and we have "the possibility" and "given the fact that he is a key player".  There are lots of weasel words. 

Now - any injury to the QB, or to the key RB on a run-is-our-bread-n-butter team, and it would be very hard for the club to argue that he isn't a key player.

I'm pretty sure I could draft your response to this, and it won't be to understand or acknowledge the point that the NFL's injury report policy is a lot less cut and dried and has a lot more room for interpretation than you seem to think it does.  So one philosophy is "why bother?" but it seems worth clarifying in case anyone else is interested. 

As pointed out in the Khalil Shakir thread, Jerry Hughes appeared on the injury report as "vet rest" during a year when he later had ligament surgery and revealed he'd been playing with torn ligaments most of the season, and the NFL concluded that the Bills had done nothing wrong.  I can't comment about the Falcons and other fine issues you allude to because I haven't been following them.  But it's not automatic.

[Toledo Bill]

37 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Gaaaaaaah!

 

So Buffalo Bills Injury report just came out

 

Allen is on the injury report for "Neck" and "Right finger"

 

Finger on his throwing hand

 

Please remove sharp objects from my vicinity

 

 

Yeah, keep giving Miller veteran rest days?

[DapperCam]

23 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I think CJ meant to say "Performed admirably." Amicably is not the word that fits there.

Cut him some slack, he’s a sports journalist.

[Boatdrinks]

OMG ! You mean Josh Allen isn’t 100% injury free heading into the final week of the regular season ? We’re doooooooooooooooooooomed !!!

[Beck Water]

51 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I don’t buy this at all.  First off who in the blue hell is CJ Caggiano and how does he have better sources than anyone else in the NFL.  
 

Smell the BS

 

Well, @HappyDays , who has some sources, says this guy has broken some good info later confirmed.

 

The shoulder injury is not some top-secret ooga booga.  Josh has been on the injury report up until this past week.  At the time of the injury, Josh acknowledged it and injury spotters/analysts like Kyle Trimble (Banged Up Bills) said the mechanism was consistent with an AC joint sprain.    It's lingered past the point where a Grade 1 sprain is likely so it's likely Grade 2 (more tearing).

 

The only new info is the implication that there's something going on besides an AC joint sprain, which someone else in the twitter thread threw out a suggestion about (and his abbreviation doesn't line up, but the general idea is a secondary inflammatory process).  But the fact that Josh was actually throwing OK right after the injury and has since plummeted in completion percentage and passing attempts per game, is entirely consistent with playing through the original injury leading to a secondary problem.

And yeah, @Alphadawg7 is completely on-the-mark in my opinion that the guy is a total tool for his schtick of "telling everyone Josh has a shoulder injury but then saying well I won't say exactly what it is until after the season because I was told to keep it confidential" (but I'll say it's an AC joint injury but more than just an AC injury).

Edited January 3 by Beck Water

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

27 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

The stinger supposedly occurred on the last play before he left the game and Kyle Allen came in.

 

 

I dunno, but when I've injured a hand and when my daughter has broken fingers, shaking her hand has been the last thing she wants to do.

I admit it's pure speculation on my part but one poster said during Josh's post game interview that Josh had trouble "getting a spiral on the ball" which contributed to his accuracy issues in the first half.

 

Most posters immediately assumed bad Josh showed up when in fact a finger issue was probably the problem

[Beck Water]

8 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Cut him some slack, he’s a sports journalist.

 

CJ Caggiano?  Nah, he's not a sports journalist, he's just a "guy who knows a guy".

 

1 minute ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I admit it's pure speculation on my part but one poster said during Josh's post game interview that Josh had trouble "getting a spiral on the ball" which contributed to his accuracy issues in the first half.

 

Most posters immediately assumed bad Josh showed up when in fact a finger issue was probably the problem

 

I'm confused a bit here, is that what Josh said in his post game interview? 

Edited January 3 by Beck Water

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

CJ Caggiano?  Nah, he's not a sports journalist, he's just a "guy who knows a guy".

 

 

I'm confused a bit here, is that what Josh said in his post game interview? 

Yes that's what @zow2 posted

[ChrisWatson#21]

I had my suspicions since the Giants game when he took a hit and landed on his right shoulder with the weight of the defender on top of him.  Josh grabbed his right shoulder quickly after that as if it was injured.  During the Chargers game Chris Collinsworth did confirm he is playing with an injured shoulder while they were replaying Gabe’s TD he said Josh has a "bad shoulder". 

[SoonerBillsFan]

5 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I Know, Right?  Except most of his "inside information" was publicly available since Week 6. 

 

If Josh actually needed surgery and had a condition the Bills thought would be worsened by continuing to play, I do not think the Bills would keep putting him out there.

If anyone questions the "week 6" thing, here' s a link to Banged Up Bills Week 6 Injury Review.

https://bangedupbills.com/2023/10/17/buffalo-bills-vs-new-york-giants-week-6-injury-review/

 

 

So there we have it.  Allen suffered an AC Joint sprain Week 6 vs the Giants.  It is evidently Grade 2 (since it's lingered more than Grade 1) but not Grade 3 (since no surgery).

 

The Bills duly put Allen on the Injury Report and he has "DNP" a couple times early in the week. 

Trimble also has a diagram of what a normal shoulder, and 3 different grades of sprain in the shoulder, look like if anyone wants to see.

I had a full Grade III in 97' and I agree he wouldn't be playing.  You do surgery on that sucker asap.  I agree he has a grade II which hurts like hell and most likely some rotator cuff impingement / fraying.   They might do a minor clean out when the season is over if that's what he has to make sure no bone fragments are in there and keep arthritis down. 

Edited January 3 by SoonerBillsFan

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Yes that's what @zow2 posted

 

Thanks!

[JohnNord]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Well, @HappyDays , who has some sources, says this guy has broken some good info later confirmed.

 

The shoulder injury is not some top-secret ooga booga.  Josh has been on the injury report up until this past week.  At the time of the injury, Josh acknowledged it and injury spotters/analysts like Kyle Brandt (Banged Up Bills) said the mechanism was consistent with an AC joint sprain.    It's lingered past the point where a Grade 1 sprain is likely so it's likely Grade 2 (more tearing).

 

The only new info is the implication that there's something going on besides an AC joint sprain, which someone else in the twitter thread threw out a suggestion about (and his abbreviation doesn't line up, but the general idea is a secondary inflammatory process).  But the fact that Josh was actually throwing OK right after the injury and has since plummeted in completion percentage and passing attempts per game, is entirely consistent with playing through the original injury leading to a secondary problem.

And yeah, @Alphadawg7 is completely on-the-mark in my opinion that the guy is a total tool for his schtick of "telling everyone Josh has a shoulder injury but then saying well I won't say exactly what it is until after the season because I was told to keep it confidential" (but I'll say it's an AC joint injury but more than just an AC injury).

Hey @Beck Water Banged up Bills is a real life PT named Kyle Trimble.  Kyle Brandt is the Angry Runs guy from NFLN.  
 

 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

For some reason, a lot of Bills fans simply can't accept that Josh is a very inconsistent player.

 

So who are the NFL QB you view as perfectly consistent players?

Just now, JohnNord said:

Hey @Beck Water Banged up Bills is a real life PT named Kyle Trimble.  Kyle Brandt is the Angry Runs guy from NFLN.  
 

 

 

Whups, sorry.  I know that well - brain lapse