Joe Brady vs Ken Dorsey- Has He Been Better?

[FilthyBeast]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think some may not like the Cam throwing comp, I don’t really like it either, but he’s definitely closer to Cam than Brady.  
 

Seems like the reads just don’t come as easy for him.  If he were to process more effectively, I think he’d be more accurate.  Might not make sense to some, but it makes sense to me.  
 

that said- that’s my guy and I wouldn’t want any other QB.  Not due to QB prowess, rather who he is as a man while also being a super hero.)

 

Back on topic-  Josh is missing a combination of too many throws and too many reads.  The misses have been a big part of our offensive issues.  We need an OC that can help Josh limit those misses.  Dorsey wasn’t able to.  Brady hasn’t been able to yet, but he hasn’t had nearly as much time to prove himself.  If our offense continues on the same path for the rest of the year, we should probably move on from him.  

Murray is a superior blocker AND is a good leader.  That’s why he’s on the roster.  He’s been lackluster running the ball the 2nd half of the year, but that’s not his only purpose. 

 

Fournette has blocking potential and sometimes executes well as a PB but he’s not nearly as good as Murray.  Just because I he’s massive doesn’t mean he’s a good blocker.  He’s not 

 

Fournette was a big part of Brady's superbowl run with the Bucs a few years ago and he's proven to be a major weapon in both the running and passing game. His blocking is also no worse than Murray.

 

I just can't fathom that he's not a massive upgrade over Murray at this point, who to his credit had some juice early in the season but has shown his age so to speak the last few months. Actually reminds a lot of the Frank Gore situation who this same head coach insisted on sticking with until the bitter end when he was here despite Singletary being the better option as a rookie.

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Fournette was a big part of Brady's superbowl run with the Bucs a few years ago and he's proven to be a major weapon in both the running and passing game. His blocking is also no worse than Murray.

 

I just can't fathom that he's not a massive upgrade over Murray at this point, who to his credit had some juice early in the season but has shown his age so to speak the last few months. Actually reminds a lot of the Frank Gore situation who this same head coach insisted on sticking with until the bitter end when he was here despite Singletary being the better option as a rookie.

That was his only good season as a pass blocker.  He improved from terrible his whole career to good in 2021.  He wasn’t as good last season.  
 

I like Lenny.  If he were to replace Murray in the lineup, I’d be excited to see what he can do.  I just think they’d prefer to have the better pass blocker.  And Murray is that 

[Coldfronts]

I don't know if Brady is the long term answer but, his is a much better OC than Dorsey was.  Brady does not get compulsively locked in to the pregame plan as Dorsey did.  He is more able to adapt schemes during the game.  He is definitely more non-conventional than Dorsey was which, I like.  Who would have thought we would be a balanced run/pass team at this point of the season back in September? 

[ngbills]

Short-term memories. I was a huge critic of Dorsey and wanted them to move on from him. But before you jump to all these Brady is so much better take a look at Dorsey's numbers last year. I do not see how you can say Brady is that much better unless you look at only Dorsey's worst games compared to Brady's best. 

 

The Bills O is down this year and it is more than Dorsey sucks, Brady is better. I would not want either to be the OC next year. They need to bring in a fresh look and someone that can revitalize this O. They have gotten stale and predictable. New OC and new WR's will do wonders. Josh may need a new QB coach - he has admitted his technique is off and that is a part of it. 

[Alphadawg7]

19 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

After watching the offense slog along yesterday I wanted to go back and look at the statistics over the last six weeks to see how much of a difference Brady has been.    Looking over the stats, it seems like a bit of a push in terms of offensive success.  What Brady has done better is exactly what McDermott kept harping on "complimentary football."    Brady has taken the air out of the offense and replaced it with ground success, and in doing so, cut down on the turnovers.     

 

Can the Bills keep it up at this pace?   Can they rely on the defense to keep playing out of their minds and hope a successful running game can move them forward?  Personally, I think the Bills are playing on a razors edge and will end up bit.    The Bills really need to consider looking outside of the organization at guys like Eric Bienemy, and Kellen Moore in the offseason to attempt and fix the passing game.  

 

 

 

This is heavily skewed for Dorsey over weeks 2, 3, and 4 against 3 bad defenses.  The other 7 weeks (Jets plus the final 6 weeks before he was fired) the offense only averaged 19.5 PPG and was terrible.  

 

I keep saying this over and over...stop looking at the season totals/avg of Dorsey led offense, its a false answer and does not reflect just how poorly the offense was playing the majority of the year.

 

19.5 PPG for Dorsey in 7 games against the weakest opponents on our schedule.

28 PPG for Brady in 6 games against the hardest part of our schedule facing a tough defense in every game but 1.  

 

Look at like opponents:  Jets - In 3 games, Dorsey led Bills offense avg 17 PPG and was 1-2 including 2 losses to Zack Wilson.  Brady hung 32 in 3 quarters and our starters sat most the 4th quarter in a blow out win that would have been likely 40-48 points had we not benched our starters for the 4th.  

 

So sorry...this stat box above does not remotely illustrate the difference the offense has experienced since Brady took over.  We are avg over 8 more PPG in Bradys first 6 games compared to Dorseys final 6 games.  Bills were 2-4 (and got lucky to not be 0-6) during Dorseys final 6 games with an inept offense and were out of the payoffs.  Under Brady, we are 5-1 and should be 6-0 if not for gaffs made that had nothing to do with Brady and are playing for the #2 seed next week.

 

None of that makes Brady the end all be all, but it DEFINITELY makes him a much better option than Dorsey was.  Even when the offense struggles, we are still scoring more points and winning close games compared to losing them because we couldn't put enough points on the board.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

18 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

There isn't 1 team in the league after 16 weeks who hasn't dealt with injuries.  Every single guy is banged up because it's the NFL.  Just because they aren't on the injury report means (EDIT: doesn't mean) they're healthy.  The idea that a team can go a full season without a significant injury is pie in the sky nonsense.  

 

 

Maybe the biggest weakness of TBD is most Bills fans aren't following the league, or do so through reading headlines.  

 

As all of this debate around Josh happens, what happened to Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs?  He's not the passer this season he was in 2020, or 2022 for that matter.  What could have changed?  Is he not taking the game seriously?  Could it be the Chiefs stopped investing in top-end receiving targets and teams are better suited to defending them?  Nah, couldn't be.

 

Or what about Jalen Hurts and the Eagles?  He's thrown double the INT's this year (EDIT: compared to last year) and the Eagles are struggling.  

 

Maybe, just maybe it's a confluence of factors.  As in, teams having more film on these guys and defenses adapt or the coaching staff isn't innovative and going with the same old old, or they are dealing with injuries or they didn't have great skilled talent.  It's never just one thing.  

 

Josh has had some issues, sure.  But they're back running him and expecting him to get by with inferior skill talent around him as well.  

re injuries- the point was that the Bills have some excellent players on D- they are the ones that were compromised. So it’s not as if the team didn’t plan on excellence at all three levels of the defense actually. 
 

On offense -  Mahomes- yeah He’s having statistically his worst season, but I bet he’s still got a better passer rating than allen (which is a very real indicator of qb decision making and passing efficiency) 

 

neither is playing qb at a high level. Lamar Jackson and Purdue are the class of the league right now 

[TurfToeJam]

Now that the tape is out there on Brady for defenses to see we will know just how good Brady really is.(or isn't)

[stevestojan]

Yes. He is better than Dorsey. But the bar was set low. 
 

 

[Since1981]

Brady is better per WIN rate. Not sure I can produce a more compelling "stat" than a "W".

Will this last? If Brady is getting just ONE more score per game?  In the NFL, that's all you need.

 

brady is 5 - 1 (loss Eagles).

dorsey is 5 - 5 

 

Even if just OC gets 1 more score, then that's the difference in successful Coaching in NFL.

[ngbills]

So the Bills were 13-3 last year. They were 2nd in the league in yards, points, and 1st downs. They came out this year and scored 38, 37, and 48 in 3 of the first 4 games this year. They struggled and the OC got fired. The new OC has some good games to start (with a lower bar) and has now also struggled. Yet many want to crown Brady not only better than Dorsey but good enough to give him the job. I don't get it. If Dorsey did enough to get fired then Brady has not done nearly enough to get the job. Hire outside of the building. Bring in a new QB coach. 

[Gman10]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

So the Bills were 13-3 last year. They were 2nd in the league in yards, points, and 1st downs. They came out this year and scored 38, 37, and 48 in 3 of the first 4 games this year. They struggled and the OC got fired. The new OC has some good games to start (with a lower bar) and has now also struggled. Yet many want to crown Brady not only better than Dorsey but good enough to give him the job. I don't get it. If Dorsey did enough to get fired then Brady has not done nearly enough to get the job. Hire outside of the building. Bring in a new QB coach. 

Brady faced tougher competition tho. Also he took the position mid season, has to be difficult

[damj]

[NewEra]

@Billsfan1972 @ScottLaw

 

you guys don’t think Josh’s passing has been part of the problem this year?

 

Thought think he’s been throwing the ball this year as well as he was in 2020?