What's Wrong With The Passing O?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Playing barely 50% of offensive snaps over last 3 games will do it 

So the Bills are actively covering up an injury on the practice reports, and how do we explain Diggs being able to run flat out on that long throw attempt from Allen where he has two steps on his man? 
 

Can anyone explain what is hurt?

 

Is it like last year when Allen had the ghost concussion all year for 8 weeks in a row? 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

So the Bills are actively covering up an injury on the practice reports, and how do we explain Diggs being able to run flat out on that long throw attempt from Allen where he has two steps on his man? 
 

Can anyone explain what is hurt?

 

Is it like last year when Allen had the ghost concussion all year for 8 weeks in a row? 

You wanted to know where the injury hypothesis came from

 

Asked and answered

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

I haven't seen the all 22 but that play was shown a number of times.  Kincaid wasn't out running anyone and he was well covered even without the second guy going back and picking it off.  Looks like (on my dvr not All 22) if he hits Johnson early leaking out of the back field he could have picked up some yards.  That wouldn't be as sexy as a bomb to Kincaid but that pass to Kincaid was never going to happen.  Two plays before he has a great throw to Kincaid and then he kind of dirts one to Shakir but he picks it off the ground.  He might have had something going if he just kept moving the chains.  When it happens every single game it's kind of a thing.

Josh's biggest problem is not staying patient with the ball. He likes to go for the big play off the playaction instead of taking the short stuff. If it's not there, take the check down. Keep the drive going. Long drives demoralize defenses

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

Dallas is the only one with a good offense. KC has struggled to score in many games this season. 

They still have Patrick Mahomes
 

And you did leave those two teams out

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

@Maine-iac I don't know how to take videos from my phone but I took a screenshot. This is what Allen sees when he starts gearing up to launch the ball:

 

 

#26 is Alex Austin. His back is turned to Kincaid and he is following Sherfield's post route. I assume Austin is Allen's read here.

 

Here's what it looks like the moment the ball is leaving Allen's hands like half a second later:

 

 

Now Austin has totally spun away from Sherfield's route and quickly develops leverage on Kincaid.

 

In fact looking at the play again now I see the middle field safety pointing in Kincaid's direction:

 

 

(sorry for the poor quality, I zoomed in but you can kind of make out the safety pointing past Sherfield towards Kincaid)

 

So now I am positive the safety told Austin where the ball was going and directed him back to Kincaid at the exact right moment.

 

In real time you can see Sherfield not putting full effort into his route. If he was really selling it he would be a few yards further to the right and would have likely drawn Austin with him. Instead the spacing on the routes is a tad too close and the DBs back there are able to read the play in time to impact it.

the read of the d doesn’t add up … Patriots drop 7 into coverage, including 3 around the 2 WRs running routes. Bills have 9 guys on or behind the Los and 3 man rush. 
 

A pass to Ty or Josh scramble to his left gets big drive sustaining yards. 

Hate the read and decision here 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

the read of the d doesn’t add up … Patriots drop 7 into coverage, including 3 around the 2 WRs running routes. Bills have 9 guys on or behind the Los and 3 man rush. 
 

A pass to Ty or Josh scramble to his left gets big drive sustaining yards. 

Hate the read and decision here 

That's the call

 

Deep drop and max protect

 

Outcome obviously not great but that was the playcall

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That's the call

 

Deep drop and max protect

 

Outcome obviously not great but that was the playcall

And throw it no matter what?? The safeties are too deep, it’s not there. Sherfield has a better shot running under a pass to the opposite 25. Bad play call, even worse decision based on the coverage. 

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

And throw it no matter what??

 

No. Allen isn't reading quantity of defenders in the area, he's reading leverage. That is what QBs are always reading. For example I'm sure you can understand there are cases where a WR that is ostensibly double covered has better leverage than a single covered WR so in that instance the double covered WR would be the right read.

 

If you look at that first screen shot, that is pretty much the exact leverage you want to take that throw. Austin clearly with his back to Kincaid and seemingly following the post, Kincaid's man two steps behind him playing catch up.

 

So the argument seems to be "forget leverage, it's inherently wrong to take a deep shot there." Which if true is a criticism of the play call, not Allen's execution.

 

Austin peeling off of the post (seemingly on the direction of the safety) was unexpected and was simply a great play by him and the safety. Allen isn't predicting the future. He's just reading the leverage at the top of his drop and making the throw accordingly.

 

Like I said Sherfield is probably the most to blame of any player on the field. Collector routes are still routes. He dogged it which meant the spacing was tighter than it should have been. It still wasn't likely that Austin would peel off like he did, but the only reason he had that opportunity is because Sherfield made it an easy read and didn't draw him far enoigh away.

[BuffaloRebound]

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/ryan-ohalloran-if-josh-allen-remains-off-bills-offseason-will-start-soon/article_5a3bdd76-a7d8-11ee-8b2e-2b958e86ae1e.html

 

Not a good sign when your QB is having issues throwing the ball.  Id say that’s what’s wrong with the passing game.  

[DapperCam]

Allen’s accuracy was off for sure, but the Pats were getting pressure up the middle all game right from the start. Also our WRs have been pretty bad for like 8 weeks now.

 

No separation, near the top of the league in drops, supposed #1 WRs with less than 50 yards, supposed #2 WRs with less than 10 yards.

 

Watch any game around the league and see wide open receivers, and receivers making contested catches. We just don’t have that ability this year. 

[BuffaloRebound]

It’s not just accuracy.  Looks like he’s struggling to throw spirals and balls are a couple yards short of their target.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

No. Allen isn't reading quantity of defenders in the area, he's reading leverage. That is what QBs are always reading. For example I'm sure you can understand there are cases where a WR that is ostensibly double covered has better leverage than a single covered WR so in that instance the double covered WR would be the right read.

 

If you look at that first screen shot, that is pretty much the exact leverage you want to take that throw. Austin clearly with his back to Kincaid and seemingly following the post, Kincaid's man two steps behind him playing catch up.

 

So the argument seems to be "forget leverage, it's inherently wrong to take a deep shot there." Which if true is a criticism of the play call, not Allen's execution.

 

Austin peeling off of the post (seemingly on the direction of the safety) was unexpected and was simply a great play by him and the safety. Allen isn't predicting the future. He's just reading the leverage at the top of his drop and making the throw accordingly.

 

Like I said Sherfield is probably the most to blame of any player on the field. Collector routes are still routes. He dogged it which meant the spacing was tighter than it should have been. It still wasn't likely that Austin would peel off like he did, but the only reason he had that opportunity is because Sherfield made it an easy read and didn't draw him far enoigh away.

Depth of coverage not just leverage needs to be part of the read.
 

Unless Sherfield ran the route too close for the left hash reading safety leverage and depth needs to be part and if the route wasn’t run in the right place that needs to be part of the read. Generally getting the feeling Sherfield is lost out there. 

 

If that’s all on Brady and zero on allen then they just need to take the shots out of the playbook, that was a very low percentage play against a coverage they should have been able to exploit badly since the pats had 5 guys covering empty space in the right flat, 3 man rush and a lot of green in front of Ty and Allen to the left

[HappyDays]

@Maine-iac finally found someone that posted the video:

 

It is just bad timing that Austin spins away from the post at the exact moment Allen is throwing the pass.

 

Watch Sherfield's route. He lazily rounds it out and slows down right after his break. Terrible.

[FireChans]

20 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

So the Bills are actively covering up an injury on the practice reports, and how do we explain Diggs being able to run flat out on that long throw attempt from Allen where he has two steps on his man? 
 

Can anyone explain what is hurt?

 

Is it like last year when Allen had the ghost concussion all year for 8 weeks in a row? 

He’s either hurt or sucks now.

 

I hope he’s hurt

[BananaB]

18 hours ago, DapperCam said:

Allen’s accuracy was off for sure, but the Pats were getting pressure up the middle all game right from the start. Also our WRs have been pretty bad for like 8 weeks now.

 

No separation, near the top of the league in drops, supposed #1 WRs with less than 50 yards, supposed #2 WRs with less than 10 yards.

 

Watch any game around the league and see wide open receivers, and receivers making contested catches. We just don’t have that ability this year. 

I think that first big hit gave Allen some happy feet Sunday. He got smoked

[HappyDays]

Joe spends the first 15 minutes or so of his all-22 review breaking down the offense. It's a good listen. He came away more encouraged than he felt after the live viewing.

 

Specifically he felt a lot more encouraged about Allen's performance. He charted 16 failed drop backs out of 34 total. He assigned blame to Allen for 4 of them (3 misfires, 1 poor decision), the OL for 5 of them, and the pass catchers for 7 of them. Like me he felt that Allen's interception was more on Sherfield and that Allen read the play correctly.

 

It's probably too late to fix the offense unfortunately. Our WRs are not suddenly going to improve. Maybe Torrence can play better but I think it's past the point in his rookie season where he's suddenly going to learn how to win against an inside move.

 

One encouraging thing is almost of all the negative drop backs came in the 1st half, really just the 1st quarter. So it was more a slow start than an all around awful performance. Joe thought that Brady did a great job coordinating the offense and giving plenty of opportunities for plays to be made, the players just didn't execute frequently enough.

[Brand J]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

@Maine-iac finally found someone that posted the video:

 

It is just bad timing that Austin spins away from the post at the exact moment Allen is throwing the pass.

 

Watch Sherfield's route. He lazily rounds it out and slows down right after his break. Terrible.

It was a bad ball to Kincaid anyway. Allen opted to throw short rather than put that thing around the 5 yard line. If Austin hadn’t spun back around and instead followed Sherfield, the DB covering Kincaid gets to make a play on the ball because it was short.

[Maine-iac]

12 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Joe spends the first 15 minutes or so of his all-22 review breaking down the offense. It's a good listen. He came away more encouraged than he felt after the live viewing.

 

Specifically he felt a lot more encouraged about Allen's performance. He charted 16 failed drop backs out of 34 total. He assigned blame to Allen for 4 of them (3 misfires, 1 poor decision), the OL for 5 of them, and the pass catchers for 7 of them. Like me he felt that Allen's interception was more on Sherfield and that Allen read the play correctly.

 

It's probably too late to fix the offense unfortunately. Our WRs are not suddenly going to improve. Maybe Torrence can play better but I think it's past the point in his rookie season where he's suddenly going to learn how to win against an inside move.

 

One encouraging thing is almost of all the negative drop backs came in the 1st half, really just the 1st quarter. So it was more a slow start than an all around awful performance. Joe thought that Brady did a great job coordinating the offense and giving plenty of opportunities for plays to be made, the players just didn't execute frequently enough.

I catch the show on youtube so I watched it instead of listening but either way he was saying our interior line wasn't holding up well and Allen didn't have time for plays to develop.  Although I'm rewatching the game now and I was going over each down just reached the FG that made it 13 to 7.  I only have one major take.  Shakir is open all the damn time.  Allen throws to Kincaid, double covered miss, Shakir open other side.  Allen holds the ball throws Diggs incomplete, Shakir wide open on a slant probably catches it for 7 but easily runs for more.  Allen looks Kincaid and Shakir wide open for what would have been a TD.  None of this is a knock on Allen.  I'm guessing Shakir isn't Allen's first or even second read but I'm starting think maybe he should be.  So far Sherfield, Cooks, and Knox all have drops.

The Knox drop (got a personal foul penalty) .......... Shakir open deep on a post.

Edited January 3 by Maine-iac