What's Wrong With The Passing O?

[86poker]

Why has Diggs been taking himself off the field so much the last 3-4 games?

[Blackbeard]

It’s a mix of this imo:

 

Allen being more Trentative Edwards due to turnover rate

 

Allen still with shoulder issue

 

Ball drops 

 

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

At this point, I’d have Isabella and Shorter in there …. You’re certainly not going to lose any production from Hardly and Suckfield, and you just might get a spark from two eager guys looking to make their mark. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

I think it's a combination of all the issues raised.

 

Where Josh is concerned, my thoughts shortly after the Patriots loss were that he put on some weight (I doubt he is 237 pounds these days) and spent too much time in the off-season playing golf and doing podcasts, and that it was the first summer he didn't attend Jordan Palmer's QB academy. I have seen nothing recently to change that viewpoint. 

 

Allen's production this year is equal to or better then previous years with an uptick in INT's and reduction in lost fumbles.  The Bills O remains near the top of the league in offensive stats and the team is playing for an 11 - 6 record and a division title.  Similar to previous season results.  And they're doing this with a collection of offensive skill players that are not as good as those from previous years. 

 

I just don't see the evidence that Allen's off season activities has hurt his game compared to other far more likely explanations of his occasional struggles (coaching changes, injuries, uneven O line play, poor skill player performances, a D that has struggled due to injuries).

 

One big issue that has impacted Allen IMO is the defenses performance as a result of all the injuries.  Allen gave the Bills the lead with less then 2 minutes to play in 3 of the games they lost.  Had they held the lead in just 2 of those 3 games (playing against very bad Offenses in Denver & NE) the Bills would be 12 - 4.

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

10 minutes ago, 86poker said:

Why has Diggs been taking himself off the field so much the last 3-4 games?

He has always done that 

[Einstein]

 

On the other hand, there were times when Brady drew up a really well designed play. For example, this pick play. 
 

It was ran perfectly on the weak side of the field and Shakir got wide open, but Allen simply never looked over there. He was locked onto the Diggs/Knox combo.

 

Here is the full progression:

 

 

 

 

 

[SCBills]

It’s really frustrating that two years in a row, we have massive WR questions down the stretch. 
 

Our most reliable weapons are a 2nd year RB, rookie TE and a 2nd year slot WR.

 

We have a WR1 who can’t get open and takes himself off the field every other play and a WR2 who’s the same boom/bust guy he’s been his entire career.  
 

It didn’t have to be this way, but hopefully our defense carries us if the offense can’t get it together because all the potential WR money for someone like Hopkins is on that side of the ball in Floyd & Poyer. 
 

 

Edited January 1 by SCBills

[Lenigmusx]

15 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

We might be the only team that doesn’t have a RB screen in our tool box. Teams are blitzing Allen up the middle and an effective screen would quickly neutralize that. Teams are also spying on Allen preventing the run and yet it seems our WR’s/TE’s rarely beat their man. We seldom run crossing routes or even roll Josh out to put added pressure on the D.

 

In a nutshell, I don’t know what our offensive identity is any longer. Do they not have play designs to get Diggs open. The quick passing game is missed and it seems we are back to long developing plays rather than taking the easy stuff to open it up for deeper throws.  
 

Sherfield and Harty have been bad misses in FA. We have no speed deep threat.
 

Josh is showing some bad tendencies recently by throwing on the run across his body to the other side of the field. Those throws have been coming up short resulting in TO’s. 

They better figure it out next week against the Dolphins.

Running game, with PA from under center would work. More 12 personnel and perhaps putting Shakir in the one and Diggs in the slot. Remember Diggs got to where he is by being an incredible slot receiver.

[Dillenger4]

14 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

New England was also holding a lot, and the refs were not calling it.

 

Three examples (two in one play). None were within 5 yards of the LOS:

 

 

I saw holding all day too. A lot of holds not called. But, that's football. It goes both ways. But I hear what you are saying as it chnages the outcome of a potential play being made. December football.....

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said:

He has always done that 

 

No he hasn’t. Not like this.

Diggs averages 80%+ every season he has been in Buffalo.

 

The past 3 games it has been 46%, 60%, and 65%.

 

Thats his lowest three game total in his Bills career. By far.

[Matt_In_NH]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

No he hasn’t. Not like this.

Diggs averages 80%+ every season he has been in Buffalo.

 

The past 3 games it has been 46%, 60%, and 65%.

 

Thats his lowest three game total in his Bills career. By far.

You are right about the percentage.  He has had lots of 60s and 70s in 22.  The 46 was the cowboys game when they were running it.   I was just saying since he has been in buffalo he is often seen taking himself out.   They need more out of him and they say there is not injury.  He does not seem overly unhappy.  It is weird.   Things have changed in a bad way in terms of passing offense recently.  

[CincyBillsFan]

One of the things that bugs me about the over the top criticism of Allen from a minority of posters that shows up on 2BD after Allen has an average game is just how perfect a fit his is for the Bills & Buffalo.  I can't imagine any QB available since 2017 that could have replicated Allen's success with the Bills.

 

How about 1st round picks in 2017?  Let's start with the best of them in Mahomes.  I doubt that he would have thrived as he has in KC under a defensive focused franchise with a defensive minded head coach.  Sure Mahomes would still have been good but he lacks some of Allen's attributes (proactive running ability) that was a unique fit for a Bills organization without great Offensive skill players and spending draft picks & FA money on building an elite D. Sorry but Bengamin at WR and Clay at TE were not going to make anyone forget about Hill & Kelsey.

 

Then there's Turbisky & Watson.  Enough said or is someone going to argue for those two over Allen?

 

In 2018 we have the busts like Darnold & Rosen and the average play of Mayfield.  Then there is Jackson who is likley to win a 2nd MVP but has only ONE playoff win on a team that makes the playoffs a lot.  No way he thrives on a Bills team that is unlikely to have put in a custom made O just for him.  They haven't done it for Allen so why do we think they would have for Jackson?

 

Burrow would have been nice but we would have needed to have the first pick in the draft to get him.  And do people think he would have thrived in Buffalo versus Cincinnati that had all those great WR's?

 

Or we could have waited until later drafts and grabbed "elite" talents like Zack Wilson, Justin Fields or Danial Jones (all of whom went higher then Allen).  Even Trevor Lawrence doesn't look like he's going to be anywhere near as productive as Allen.

 

Did I miss anyone?

 

So Allen is the perfect fit for the Bills and the city of Buffalo.  He is an elite QB who is ridiculously productive.  Is he perfect? No.  Can he play better, particularly cutting down TO's and being more consistent? Yes.  But even if Allen stops improving he is the best QB option we could have gotten over the last 7 years and we're damn lucky to have him.  And even if he doesn't improve any further he is more then good enough to lead the Bills to a Super Bowl win. 

 

So instead of worrying about what Allen needs to do to get a little better we need to focus on making sure the Bills - like the Chiefs, Bengals, Ravens and other teams with elite QB have done - focus the franchises resources against surrounding their top QB with all the necessary tools to optimize his performance.  Anything less and we'll be crying about what could have been for decades.

 

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

CC: Joe Brady

 

 

[Livinginthepast]

Brady got a bounce after Dorsey was fired. I think the players felt liberated. But the same problems keep reoccurring. The offense is way to vanilla overall and Brady cannot adjust that mid season. It was nice to see an actual sweep yesterday but thats all too rare. Their blocking schemes on run plays yesterday were too predictable and their lack of screens to burn the Pats constant blitzes and pressure were infuriating. That stupid lateral "hitch screen" like play should never be run again. it rarely goes anywhere and has been flat out dropped probably 10 times this season. I keep saying that they should attempt more gadget plays but when they have done them, they look so poorly executed it's as if they have been practiced once or twice. 

 

Overall, I think the Bills are not good enough on offense to be one of those old school teams that just tells the opposition, this is what we are going to do and we dont care if you know it, you cant stop it. They have to have some misdirection, trickery or cunning to their offense. It cannot win with just vanilla.

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Brady is a clear upgrade over Dorsey. However, the Bills passing offense isn't clicking. Its been problematic for multiple games. More specifically, Allen isn't playing or passing nearly as well as he's capable of. His vision seems off and maybe lacking some confidence, WR issues a plenty with stops not getting open, and or disappearing. That includes Diggs. The oline is leaking in pass protection. It's not just one issue that needs to improve or get corrected. It's a multitude of issues which likely isn't going to get fixed this year. 

 

Alpha trust your eyes and be honest here. The Bills passing game isn't anywhere near what is could or should be. It's taken a plunge from the offense of a few years ago. Don't get lost in statistics. 

 

I'm not saying the Bills offense sucks. Please don't take it that way. To its credit, Allen and the offense has done enough when it counts in crunch time. What I'm saying is the offense should be better. It has to be better to match on into the playoffs. It's fair to be concerned about the offense. It's fair to think maybe Brady's tendencies are being figured out. 

That wasn’t the discussion…he was defending Dorsey and saying he should still be here.  Which is just ludicrous 

[Paup 1995MVP]

51 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Allen's production this year is equal to or better then previous years with an uptick in INT's and reduction in lost fumbles.  The Bills O remains near the top of the league in offensive stats and the team is playing for an 11 - 6 record and a division title.  Similar to previous season results.  And they're doing this with a collection of offensive skill players that are not as good as those from previous years. 

 

I just don't see the evidence that Allen's off season activities has hurt his game compared to other far more likely explanations of his occasional struggles (coaching changes, injuries, uneven O line play, poor skill player performances, a D that has struggled due to injuries).

 

One big issue that has impacted Allen IMO is the defenses performance as a result of all the injuries.  Allen gave the Bills the lead with less then 2 minutes to play in 3 of the games they lost.  Had they held the lead in just 2 of those 3 games (playing against very bad Offenses in Denver & NE) the Bills would be 12 - 4.

 

 

His accuracy has been off the past 2 games.  He hasn't been terrible.  But certainly not spot on with his ball placement-not even close.  Our receivers do not get much separation if any at times.  But he still has missed some throws that he should make.  

 

If we are going on a run at least to the AFCCG he needs to be better regardless of the pieces around him.  He is the straw that stirs the drink-if you remember that saying from Reggie Jackson w the 1970's New York Yankees I believe.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

21 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

CC: Joe Brady

 

 

I don’t think it had anything to do with them suddenly thinking Lamar was lefty lol it had everything to do with them thinking that weird body motion was Lamar handing off the ball to the rb and them getting confused by the presnap motion 

Edited January 1 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Einstein]

21 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

CC: Joe Brady

 

 

 

I’m pretty sure this is just because it was a fake handoff and the runner was on that side..

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Lenigmusx said:

Running game, with PA from under center would work. More 12 personnel and perhaps putting Shakir in the one and Diggs in the slot. Remember Diggs got to where he is by being an incredible slot receiver.

we are simply lacking speed in our WRs.  Defenses are challenging our WRs to burn them and they haven;t been able to do it.  This has made the 10-15 yard area very crowded.

[Coach Tuesday]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Josh needs a lot less golf and a lot more work on his mechanics and chemistry with his receivers this coming offseason.   He talked about getting back to his offseason mechanics training in the postgame today........but he's clearly not putting in the work he was prior to the 2021 season.    After 13 seconds I think he thought he had neared the pinnacle of his profession but he's regressed back closer to Cam Newton 2.0 than the passer he was then.   Time for him to get serious about winning before his own talent regresses back to the pack.

I am also wondering whether he prepares less during the weeks leading up to a game where they expect a ton of man coverage - “I’ll just see it and throw it” - but that doesn’t work too well when the o line is getting beat and his time to see it is limited.  The throws end up late and erratic.