Pro Football Focus… Bills now have number 4 oline in the league

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

-Ed oliver has a 64 pff rating

-Leonard Floyd has a 57 pff rating

-Bernard is 65…..

-while Dodson is the 2nd best LB in the game at 89+, but he’s not the 2nd best LB in the league

 

mcgovern and Torrance have been better than their off rating suggests.  

 

pff can be a decent gauge.  It can also provide false narratives if that’s how you were to grade a player

 

 

I don't blindly trust PFF grades, that is fair. I'm just saying even by their own grading system calling us the 4th ranked OL is somewhat of a mirage. The 4th ranked DL would be elite. The 4th ranked group of pass catchers would be elite. Because OL talent across the league is so bad this year, unless you have a top 2 OL it's not really making a difference in the game. I don't think our OL has been a true advantage this year. But it has been good enough which is all you can ask for in the modern NFL.

 

On Torrence, I think a narrative has formed that he has performed better than he really has, likely because fans are comparing it to the truly awful play that we got last year. He has had major issues getting beaten inside for most of the season. He's pretty consistently been the weak link. But similar to what I said above, most OLs have a weak link or two so relative to the rest of the league it's not a huge deal. Hiding a guard is easy anyways, as long as they aren't so awful they wreck game plans like Saffold did.

 

I'm not saying Torrence was a bad pick by the way. You have to be patient with rookie o-linemen these days and he's certainly shown a strong foundation for development. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a top 10 guard by his 3rd season.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, SWATeam said:

LOL, and those 13 include Deshaun Watson, Tommy DeVito, Josh Dobbs, Jimmy Garoppolo and Zach Wilson...

 

Why did you happen to select that group of QBs? Also below Josh are Jackson, Mahomes, and Hurts. I assume you can see the pattern here?

 

Here's the top 10 in that stat:

 

Tua

Mac Jones

Siemian

Lawrence

Burrow

Zappe

Ridder

Carr

Browning

Mayfield

 

My takeaway is that it's a totally meaningless stat that tells you nothing about the quality of the QB or of the OL.

[Andrew Son]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Why did you happen to select that group of QBs? Also below Josh are Jackson, Mahomes, and Hurts. I assume you can see the pattern here?

 

Here's the top 10 in that stat:

 

Tua

Mac Jones

Siemian

Lawrence

Burrow

Zappe

Ridder

Carr

Browning

Mayfield

 

My takeaway is that it's a totally meaningless stat that tells you nothing about the quality of the QB or of the OL.

I was identifying guys included in that number that have not really played a ton this year.  When you say "13 guys below him" you would think that would be starting QB's, not just anyone that has played QB this year.

 

Agree on the stat not meaning much regarding the quality of the QB.  A lot of the current best QB's hold it.  My only point is that style puts additional pressure on the OL for having to sustain blocks.  While Josh does make the line better by getting out of trouble with his mobility, he also makes it tough on them at times by being among the league leaders for holding the ball.  That's it.

[Big Blitz]

Yep. 
 

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

I believe it.  By this time next year OT better be the RG all pro choice.

[somnus00]

They've certainly improved. But so has Josh's pocket awareness. There have been games where he is running for his life and avoids the sacks.

 

I believe, last I saw, the Bills were like 11th in pressures allowed, but 1st in sacks allowed.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't blindly trust PFF grades, that is fair. I'm just saying even by their own grading system calling us the 4th ranked OL is somewhat of a mirage. The 4th ranked DL would be elite. The 4th ranked group of pass catchers would be elite. Because OL talent across the league is so bad this year, unless you have a top 2 OL it's not really making a difference in the game. I don't think our OL has been a true advantage this year. But it has been good enough which is all you can ask for in the modern NFL.

 

On Torrence, I think a narrative has formed that he has performed better than he really has, likely because fans are comparing it to the truly awful play that we got last year. He has had major issues getting beaten inside for most of the season. He's pretty consistently been the weak link. But similar to what I said above, most OLs have a weak link or two so relative to the rest of the league it's not a huge deal. Hiding a guard is easy anyways, as long as they aren't so awful they wreck game plans like Saffold did.

 

I'm not saying Torrence was a bad pick by the way. You have to be patient with rookie o-linemen these days and he's certainly shown a strong foundation for development. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a top 10 guard by his 3rd season.

 

So on Torrence it is in part because he was really good the first 5 or 6 weeks. Teams were putting their best defensive tackles on him and he was winning. Consistently. And the narrative built. What happened is teams watched film and they started using hybrid types or out and out edge players inside to speed rush the inside shoulder. Torrence does have a weakness there. And I think to an extent he always will because his foot speed is sub-optimal (which was the fit point some of us worried about when he was coming out). I expect the Bills staff to really work hard on technique in trying to mitigate that in the offseason and they can probably do so to an extent. But it will always be there. That said, his anchor continues to be really impressive and if he gets the first punch in on a defender it is rep over and he is a run game mauler (and has played a big part in turning us around in that regard).

[Capco]

3 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Yep. 
 

 

Interesting use of the word "battery".  Does he basically mean "connection"?

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't blindly trust PFF grades, that is fair. I'm just saying even by their own grading system calling us the 4th ranked OL is somewhat of a mirage. The 4th ranked DL would be elite. The 4th ranked group of pass catchers would be elite. Because OL talent across the league is so bad this year, unless you have a top 2 OL it's not really making a difference in the game. I don't think our OL has been a true advantage this year. But it has been good enough which is all you can ask for in the modern NFL.

 

On Torrence, I think a narrative has formed that he has performed better than he really has, likely because fans are comparing it to the truly awful play that we got last year. He has had major issues getting beaten inside for most of the season. He's pretty consistently been the weak link. But similar to what I said above, most OLs have a weak link or two so relative to the rest of the league it's not a huge deal. Hiding a guard is easy anyways, as long as they aren't so awful they wreck game plans like Saffold did.

 

I'm not saying Torrence was a bad pick by the way. You have to be patient with rookie o-linemen these days and he's certainly shown a strong foundation for development. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a top 10 guard by his 3rd season.

I hear ya.  
 

I think our OL might be a top 4-5- hard to say.  I don’t watch enough in depth OL play from the other teams.  When watching non Bills games, I feel that the most offensive lines are below average and that the level of OL play is lesser now than ever.  It seems that most fans think their OLs are bad. 

[Billy Claude]

22 minutes ago, Capco said:

Interesting use of the word "battery".  Does he basically mean "connection"?

 

I think Gruden is using it in the way the pitcher and catcher is called the battery in baseball, so yes "connection".

[Capco]

Just now, Billy Claude said:

 

I think Gruden is using it in the way the pitcher and catcher is called the battery in baseball, so yes "connection".

Ahh I wasn't aware of the baseball reference.  That makes sense.  Thanks!

[Big Blitz]

6 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I believe it.  By this time next year OT better be the RG all pro choice.

You mean we aren’t going to be discussing that Spencer Brown contract all summer?

 

I’d get ahead of it - we know we have a quality starter.  He may take it to free agency or maybe we lock him up to a 4 year 30 million dollar deal or something like that.  
 

Puts him right in the middle here:

 

https://overthecap.com/position/right-tackle

 

One less hole to fill - we’re going to have enough on the D line.  

[GunnerBill]

16 hours ago, SWATeam said:

I was identifying guys included in that number that have not really played a ton this year.  When you say "13 guys below him" you would think that would be starting QB's, not just anyone that has played QB this year.

 

Agree on the stat not meaning much regarding the quality of the QB.  A lot of the current best QB's hold it.  My only point is that style puts additional pressure on the OL for having to sustain blocks.  While Josh does make the line better by getting out of trouble with his mobility, he also makes it tough on them at times by being among the league leaders for holding the ball.  That's it.

 

Yea. Time to throw is a mismash of so many things. Your OL. Your QB's speed in his progressions. Your offensive design. It can show you things. And generally when Josh is at his best his time to throw is down slightly and that is because it generally means he is in command, confident and reading things decisively so gets the ball out. But the way he extends plays he is never going to be a Joe Burrow in that stat. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I always knew Spencer Brown would turn into a good OT. 🤥

[bmur66]

Shhhhhh. Don’t talk about it.

[Bermuda Triangle]

Looking stellar so far today.

[Julio Hopkins]

Are they graded on passing blocking or do they ignore that part of the game?