Pro Football Focus… Bills now have number 4 oline in the league

[clayboy54]

4 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Where the hell is Cleveland? Absurd they're not in the top 10.

Look, I get it but the sack numbers Watson took were unreal. Maybe their run blocking makes the top 10, but not their on-field performance pass blocking this season.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Cleveland’s 2 starting OTs, 1st rounders and awesome, have been out most of the year. It is absolutely amazing what that coaching staff is doing right now. 

100%! Those guys are amazing. Bill Callahan might be the goat, but I’ve done some clinic work with Scott Peters the assistant OL coach and he is going to climb the coaching ranks. He is the real deal, tremendous knowledge and melded OL technique with MMA principles. He is doing some incredible stuff. 

[Shaw66]

6 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

The Top Ten for the entire season so far is 

1. The Philadelphia Eagles

2. The Detroit Lions

3. Baltimore Ravens 

4. Buffalo Bills

5. Atlanta Falcons

6. Dallas Cowboys

7. Denver Broncos

8. Indianapolis Colts

9. Minnesota Vikings

10. Las Vegas Raiders

 

This the highest the Bills have ever rated out for a season on oline since PFF started their grading system. I’m sure Josh being as elusive helps but an honorable mention and hats off to Aaron Kromer guy can definitely coach an oline. 

1, 3, 4, 6, and 7 all have scrambling QBs.  

 

I don't trust PFF analysis, ever, even when it makes the Bills look good.   

[Ralonzo]

1 hour ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I’m wondering if Bates is in their plans at C next season, in the event they feel they can shave $$ from Morse without losing too much talent. They signed him to a 4 year deal for a reason, and I imagine they always envisioned him potentially playing significant snaps at some point for this team. 

 

I'm ok with Bates for his role as a fill-in with versatility, but I loved Anderson preseason tape. His RAS out of college I recall as being kind of weak strength-wise (15 reps or something), but he has that farmboy core hoss strength coming out of the Calivalley and he was moving and turning 1T's, and then comboing to the next level in preseason. He was very good at G, but definitely limited in T reps. Would like to see him get C reps vs 1's next preseason. Plus personality wise, seems like almost a clone of Spencer Brown.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Ralonzo

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

1, 3, 4, 6, and 7 all have scrambling QBs.  

 

I don't trust PFF analysis, ever, even when it makes the Bills look good.   

Probably because pocket passers after Brady retired are dinosaurs. Pass rushers are so fast off the ball anymore that if you can’t generate plays with your legs here and there you won’t be in the league too long. The are only a few outliers to this anymore Burrow and Stafford come to mind and it depends on your opinion of Goff. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by 78thealltimegreat

[Saxum]

3 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Probably because pocket passers after Brady retired are dinosaurs. Pass rushers are so fast off the ball anymore that if you can’t generate plays with your legs here and there you won’t be in the league too long. The only ones who might be an outliers to this are Burrow and maybe Stafford. 

 

Yes NFL will need to create a rule to slow them down.  Maybe they will need to say "one Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi" before they can cross line of scrimmage.

[wettlaufer]

8 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I’m sure Josh being as elusive helps but an honorable mention and hats off to Aaron Kromer guy can definitely coach an oline. 

Josh holds the ball for a long time (and makes plays doing so). That takes offensive line talent. If Tua gets it out in two seconds and Josh holds it for four seconds, that's twice the work for the line. Which, sure, we all see.

 

But to weaponize that line talent into a multiple attack is what very much sets Brady apart from Dorsey *and* Daboll.

 

The quality of the D-line * the quality of the offensive line will be a decisive element in upcoming games.

 

I am so here for it.

[NoSaint]

8 hours ago, dma0034 said:

Credit Kromer and the the fact they've been healthy all year for this.

 

O'Cyrus Torrence has been great in Year 1

he’s always been a favorite of mine (kromer)

 

his history developing jahri evans, and Carl nicks at guard have me excited about the clay he has with ocyrus… I was admittedly nervous about the fit but it seems the floor is pretty high and ceiling could be rare air

[hondo in seattle]

I've complained about the OL pretty much every year since I was spat out of my mother's womb.  I was tired of seeing other QBs sit back and scan the field for open receivers while our QBs scrambled for their life.  And other RBs run through gaping lanes while our RBs struggled just to get back to the LOS.  

 

I think #4 is a stretch.  But it's been fun to see the progression of the OL this year.  The Dallas game was something special.  

[ShakAttack]

Most position groups are injured by this point in the season. The fact we have had zero injuries on the OL all season is incredible and it’s an automatic bonus when going up DLines every week that are no longer the same group that started the season. 
 

not trying to take anything away here, but if every team in the NFL still had their starters at OL, we probably aren’t 4th best in any OL ranking.  Some teams have been shuffling their OL every week all season it seems. 
 

We probably won’t be this fortunate in the injury department next season (on offense) so I hope we can take advantage!

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

1, 3, 4, 6, and 7 all have scrambling QBs.  

 

I don't trust PFF analysis, ever, even when it makes the Bills look good.   

 

Dak? I mean sure he scrambles now and then. But I wouldn't put him in the Allen, Jackson, Hurts category. They are weapons when they run. Dak isn't a statue. But he is a pocket Quarterback.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

I've complained about the OL pretty much every year since I was spat out of my mother's womb.  I was tired of seeing other QBs sit back and scan the field for open receivers while our QBs scrambled for their life.  And other RBs run through gaping lanes while our RBs struggled just to get back to the LOS.  

 

I think #4 is a stretch.  But it's been fun to see the progression of the OL this year.  The Dallas game was something special.  

 

Yea I'd say #4 is a stretch too. But not a huge one. Somewhere 7-12 feels right. Philly, Detroit, Indy and Atlanta feel hard to argue with. Then I think Dallas, the Rams, Baltimore, Buffalo and the Vikings would be my next group. I think Houston was a top 10 line before the injury bug hit too. They have struggled down the stretch though with guys getting hurt and more backups having to play.

[Utah John]

Got two guards who can play, and a RT who finally figured things out.  Presto!  It only took about 25 years to rebuild the entire line after the great line we had during the SB years.  

 

Cleveland has a great interior G-C-G but didn't make the list I guess because their tackles are pretty bad.

[JerseyBills]

incredible.. 

Because Torrence and this stud

 

Dawkins Morse were always elite. Brown good, still has major upside and potential 

 

 

 

 

[Lost]

9 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Probably because pocket passers after Brady retired are dinosaurs. Pass rushers are so fast off the ball anymore that if you can’t generate plays with your legs here and there you won’t be in the league too long. The are only a few outliers to this anymore Burrow and Stafford come to mind and it depends on your opinion of Goff. 

 

TUA is a pocket passer and arguably injury prone but thankfully McDaniel seems to understand the league today and his players capabilities so has designed his offensive scheme so his QB is getting rid of the ball in under 2.5 seconds.   Tua despite not being very mobile has 3rd fewest sacks among starting QBs this year.   

[NewEra]

16 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not really. Good rookie year for sure but he's been our weak link IMO.

 

Here are the individual PFF grades for each member of the OL:

 

Dawkins 73.7

McGovern 58.9

Morse 64.5

Torrence 56.6

Brown 69.2

 

Very good on the edges, but slightly below average on the interior.

 

I think two things are helping our ranking here:

1) Continuity. I can't remember the last time the Bills had so many consecutive games with the same starting 5. IIRC McGovern missed the first game, but otherwise the starting 5 has never changed. That is massively important. I doubt more than a couple other teams have this advantage.

2) Relative lack of good OL play across the league. The individual rankings above don't scream "top 5 OL" but most teams have just average OLs right now. I doubt there is a ton of separation between say the 5th best OL and the 20th best OL, at least not enough to make a real difference. There are a couple extremes at both ends and then a lot of average in the middle.

-Ed oliver has a 64 pff rating

-Leonard Floyd has a 57 pff rating

-Bernard is 65…..

-while Dodson is the 2nd best LB in the game at 89+, but he’s not the 2nd best LB in the league

 

mcgovern and Torrance have been better than their off rating suggests.  

 

pff can be a decent gauge.  It can also provide false narratives if that’s how you were to grade a player

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I'd say #4 is a stretch too. But not a huge one. Somewhere 7-12 feels right. Philly, Detroit, Indy and Atlanta feel hard to argue with. Then I think Dallas, the Rams, Baltimore, Buffalo and the Vikings would be my next group. I think Houston was a top 10 line before the injury bug hit too. They have struggled down the stretch though with guys getting hurt and more backups having to play.

 

What sort of schemes or concepts is the OL leaning on, now that Brady is in charge? 

[Mr. WEO]

17 hours ago, SWATeam said:

He also holds the ball longer than anyone.

 

this is wrong as well. 13 QBs hold it longer.

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

14 hours ago, BearNorth said:

Bills have given up 20 sacks on the season which is best in the league.  They have recorded 50 sacks, which is 3rd in the league. 

 

Top five teams in net sacks are: Bills, +30; Dolphins,+25;Chiefs, +23; Ravens, +18; 49ers, +15 - these are all top teams.

 

 

This is mainly because Josh leaves the pocket quickly, not necessarily because he has a lot of time in the pocket.  Similar for Mahomes and obviously Jackson.

[Andrew Son]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

this is wrong as well. 13 QBs hold it longer.

 

LOL, and those 13 include Deshaun Watson, Tommy DeVito, Josh Dobbs, Jimmy Garoppolo and Zach Wilson...

 

Josh is actually quicker to throw this year than in the past.  But as much as he helps out the line with his mobility, he also forces the line to sustain blocks longer than most which can be challenging. 

[Mr. WEO]

38 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

LOL, and those 13 include Deshaun Watson, Tommy DeVito, Josh Dobbs, Jimmy Garoppolo and Zach Wilson...

 

Josh is actually quicker to throw this year than in the past.  But as much as he helps out the line with his mobility, he also forces the line to sustain blocks longer than most which can be challenging. 

 

 

mentioning that certainly doesn't change the fact that your comment was incorrect.  re: holding the ball longer than anyone else--he's not even close.

 

There's no question he makes this O-line look better.