Plane landing at London Heathrow Airport yesterday

[stuvian]

bouncy finish

[RkFast]

On 1/1/2024 at 5:41 AM, sherpa said:

 

Scraping a wing tip is a very big deal.

One of the dangers in a screwed up landing, no matter runway length, is what happens if the airplane is not directionally aligned properly. If there is even a relatively minor angle between the fuselage and the runway, the tires will be misaligned and could separate from the gear. There are tremendous forces on the gear at touchdown. That's why crosswind landings are an art, and have wind limitations.

 

Regarding autolandings, landings done by the autopilot, the airplane has to have three separate and isolated autopilots and electrical systems, The internal operation of the autopilot and electrical systems separate at 1500' and go through a self test that enunciates when complete. Very few are so equipped.

The airport has to have very specific equipment which must be maintained and tested far more frequently, and even the taxi hold positions near the runway have to be expanded to prevent signal interference.

It is a very big and expensive deal, and if an airport has has the capability it will usually be on one runway only. 

The aircrew training to keep certification used to take us almost two hours of simulator time alone, and we only were scheduled for eight hours in there at every recurrent cycle.

 

That is why very few airlines have their airplanes equipped and their crews certified to do it.

US and international majors do it, like American, United and Delta, but most don't. Certainly not those that don't operate internationally, as it simply isn't worth it to them.

 

Is it me, or do all these videos of really rough approaches and landings come out of Europe? It seems most come from either Britain or Germany, Frankfurt airport specificially. Do they have different minimums in Europe than they do in the states? Or is the weather just worse?

 

I would add to your other comments that what people dont understand is that that automated systems dont "fly" the plane. All they do is "hold" certain conditions the pilot tells it to. Hold an altitude or speed, or fly a certain heading, or follow a certain nav aide. And for driving, it will be the same. Its going to be an "autopilot" system that will operate the same way, but require the human to manage the system and take over controls in and around local driving and parking. Its also gonna need a dead-man's switch like a train that must be acknowledged every 30 seconds or so. Personally, I dont think it will catch on. The very first drive someone is "late" for something and their stupid automated car holds them to the speed limit and operates like an 80 year old nana is driving, they are gonna flick off that system and never use it again. 

Edited January 3 by RkFast

[sherpa]

40 minutes ago, RkFast said:

 

Is it me, or do all these videos of really rough approaches and landings come out of Europe? It seems most come from either Britain or Germany, Frankfurt airport specificially. Do they have different minimums in Europe than they do in the states? Or is the weather just worse?

 

I would add to your other comments that what people dont understand is that that automated systems dont "fly" the plane. All they do is "hold" certain conditions the pilot tells it to. Hold an altitude or speed, or fly a certain heading, or follow a certain nav aide.

 

Same minimums, just more cameras.

Europe has more days of low visibility and the UK gets a bit breezy, but the US has more really violent weather than cannot be flown through. US thunderstorm activity is far more frequent because we have cold Canadian air colliding with warm, moist Gulf air.

 

Just a technical correction. Automated systems do fly the airplane.  An autoland is such an example.

Very rare, and very few airports are certified, but the autopilot(s) actually land the thing.

 

There are very strict crosswind limitations, but if the airport, airplane and crew are certified, you can autoland.

It is useful in very low visibility situations with light winds. Very rare.

 

The training to do it takes about one hour of sim time for an already qualified captain/first officer.

At 1500' above the ground, three autopilots separate, and three electrical systems separate.

Each compares it's data to the other two, and if there is any discrepancy, it is annunciated and you go around.

All talk is scripted, and no unnecessary things are said.

The captain keeps one thumb on the autopilot disconnect button, and the other on the thrust levers which have a "go around" option.

Very quite, very tense, but works great.

Scripted event, so only a few things are said, but they must be said.

After touchdown, you simply make sure the thrust levers are at idle, the spoilers are deployed and you manually engage the thrust reversers, as always.

Edited January 3 by sherpa

[Wacka]

Had two go arounds on flights I took. One as in Raleigh-Durham and we  could see the christ\tmas lights on the houses below.  The pilot announced that we had to go around because  the plane ahead of us had not cleared the runway in time. 

 

Other time as landing at SFO. I lived in the area and had flown in there many times. We were over the San Mateo Bridge on the final approach.  Suddenly you could hear the engines  rev up zn the nose start  pitching up. Knew right away  that we weren't landing on that approach. Circled around the bay and landed  normally. When getting  of, I asked the cabin crew why we went around. They said something about the flaps. I know a lot more from watching the videos now, but even back then I knew you needed the flaps to land.😀

[RkFast]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

Same minimums, just more cameras.

Europe has more days of low visibility and the UK gets a bit breezy, but the US has more really violent weather than cannot be flown through. US thunderstorm activity is far more frequent because we have cold Canadian air colliding with warm, moist Gulf air.

 

Just a technical correction. Automated systems do fly the airplane.  An autoland is such an example.

Very rare, and very few airports are certified, but the autopilot(s) actually land the thing.

 

There are very strict crosswind limitations, but if the airport, airplane and crew are certified, you can autoland.

It is useful in very low visibility situations with light winds. Very rare.

 

The training to do it takes about one hour of sim time for an already qualified captain/first officer.

At 1500' above the ground, three autopilots separate, and three electrical systems separate.

Each compares it's data to the other two, and if there is any discrepancy, it is annunciated and you go around.

All talk is scripted, and no unnecessary things are said.

The captain keeps one thumb on the autopilot disconnect button, and the other on the thrust levers which have a "go around" option.

Very quite, very tense, but works great.

Scripted event, so only a few things are said, but they must be said.

After touchdown, you simply make sure the thrust levers are at idle, the spoilers are deployed and you manually engage the thrust reversers, as always.

 

Thanks for the information. I knew you would clarify. Not sure I ever shared this one....THIS is an approach! Evidenlty, the pilot has quite a history as a mercinary.