Broncos benching Wilson

[H2o]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Maybe you didn't watch enough of Russ throughout his career?

 

He wasn't some Geno Smith 1-year wonder.  Come on, man.  You're better than that.  

I have watched plenty of Russ over the years. Plenty. I'm saying look at him with Pete, without Pete, and the same with Geno. 

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, H2o said:

Let me try kindergarten terms for you. Russ with Pete, good. Russ without Pete, bad. Geno without Pete, bad. For 8 years he was bad. As soon as Geno with Pete, good.

 

And that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. Pete Carroll made Russell Wilson look better than what he actually was. Just like Pete took a JAG and made him one of the top QB's in the NFC last year. 

 

Geno fell back to earth this year (under Pete) before he went out.  Wilson was paying better in Denver.  You saw that. 

 

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Wilson will get signed. And he will start somewhere in 2024. But he won't make it a full season there either because he is done. 

 

Personally if I was a GM no way in the world I'd touch him. 

 

 

Nah he benched him because he is bad. 

 

Yes they are protecting themselves against the injury guarantee - sure. But they wouldn't need to do that if he was good. He is garbage. Hence they are moving on. Hence the finance becomes an issue.

 

They expressly benched him to avoid a potential injury payout next season if he is injured this season.  He would would be a massive cap hit if they cut him after this season ends. 

 

You don't believe that they are better off with Stidham to make the playoffs.  And since that is true, you can't conclude that he was benched because he was playing poorly. 

 

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

because his expected contributions going forward don’t mesh with his financial compensation and they don’t want to risk the associated commitment long term
 

so it’s not purely financial. 

 

see above.  it absolutely is financial. otherwise there is no was you roll with Stidham when you may make the playoffs. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

Geno fell back to earth this year (under Pete) before he went out.  Wilson was paying better in Denver.  You saw that. 

 

 

They expressly benched him to avoid a potential injury payout next season if he is injured this season.  He would would be a massive cap hit if they cut him after this season ends. 

 

You don't believe that they are better off with Stidham to make the playoffs.  And since that is true, you can't conclude that he was benched because he was playing poorly. 

 

 

see above.  it absolutely is financial. otherwise there is no was you roll with Stidham when you may make the playoffs. 

 

I conclude they have conceded the playoffs. Taken the correct decision that Russell Wilson is cooked and so don't want to be on the hook for a single additonal penny beyond what they already are. 

 

If they had beaten New England this move doesn't get made. And they had the chance too - not for the first time Russ couldn't get it done.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Geno fell back to earth this year (under Pete) before he went out.  Wilson was paying better in Denver.  You saw that. 

 

 

They expressly benched him to avoid a potential injury payout next season if he is injured this season.  He would would be a massive cap hit if they cut him after this season ends. 

 

You don't believe that they are better off with Stidham to make the playoffs.  And since that is true, you can't conclude that he was benched because he was playing poorly. 

 

 

see above.  it absolutely is financial. otherwise there is no was you roll with Stidham when you may make the playoffs. 

I think they are still gonna cut him this off-season, don’t you?

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I conclude they have conceded the playoffs. Taken the correct decision that Russell Wilson is cooked and so don't want to be on the hook for a single additonal penny beyond what they already are. 

 

If they had beaten New England this move doesn't get made. And they had the chance too - not for the first time Russ couldn't get it done.

The real debate is, does Russell Wilson make the HoF?

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

The real debate is, does Russell Wilson make the HoF?

 

Hmmm. If he had two rings he would be a shoe in. I still lean towards yes. But it is an interesting question.

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think they are still gonna cut him this off-season, don’t you?

 

All the well connected Broncos reporters are saying that decision is made. 

[dave mcbride]

28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hmmm. If he had two rings he would be a shoe in. I still lean towards yes. But it is an interesting question.

 

All the well connected Broncos reporters are saying that decision is made. 

Smart comment by Florio here. I'd take the entire cap hit in 2024 if I were them, but to be fair I don't know their cap situation well enough. It might be smarter to spread it out. Also, no one really talks about the actual money saved, but $37 million is a lot!

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/cutting-russell-wilson-will-create-a-cap-mess-for-the-broncos-keeping-him-would-too

 

"The transaction will result in $89 million in cap charges, arising from money already paid and his 2024 fully-guaranteed compensation of $39 million. The Broncos can either take the entire hit in 2024, or they can designate Wilson as a post-June 1 release and limit the cap charge to $35.4 million in 2024 and $53.6 million in 2025.

 

The Broncos eventually would get a credit for Wilson’s earnings elsewhere in 2024. If he takes the one-year veteran minimum of $1.21 million from his next team, that’s all the Broncos will get by way of credit.

 

It’s still better than the cap consequences of keeping him. His cap number for 2024 would be $35.4 million under his current deal, along with $55.4 million in 2025. That’s $90.8 million. Also, cutting him saves $37 million in cash.

 

Will this hurt Denver’s ability to field the most competitive team possible in 2024? Sure. But it won’t be impossible. The Buccaneers are closing in on a division championship despite carrying more than $75 million in dead money, with $35 million of it coming from Tom Brady. Also, with the cap going up and up and up, the relative impact of seemingly staggering cap charges continues to drop as the cap continues to rise."

Edited December 28, 2023 by dave mcbride

[dave mcbride]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hmmm. If he had two rings he would be a shoe in. I still lean towards yes. But it is an interesting question.

 

There is NO conceivable way that Wilson doesn't make the HOF. Warren Moon is the only Black QB in the HOF, and Wilson is by far and away the most accomplished candidate (over McNabb, Vick, etc.). You and I both know that voters will be conscious of this issue. Mahomes and Jackson will get in, but they have a lot longer to play. Wilson's 167 career AV (from PFR) dwarfs everyone else's (McNabb is second at 138). People forget that he's had a bunch of spectacular statistical seasons.    

Edited December 28, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Mr. WEO]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I conclude they have conceded the playoffs. Taken the correct decision that Russell Wilson is cooked and so don't want to be on the hook for a single additonal penny beyond what they already are. 

 

If they had beaten New England this move doesn't get made. And they had the chance too - not for the first time Russ couldn't get it done.

 

Why would they concede the playoffs?  The HC claims they are "desperately trying to win"  and that Stidham decision is based on "a spark".

 

My favorite part is this: "one of the things we saw when we signed Stidham in the offseason, not only from preseason games but regular-season games, but he's a guy I'm excited to see play."  Stidham took 4 snaps and attempted zero passes this year. 

 

Payton is a bum.   Washed up. Same will be true next year when they sign a guy like Minshew or The Passtronaut, while they try to groom a rookie QB.  That team is going nowhere with him.

 

24 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think they are still gonna cut him this off-season, don’t you?

The real debate is, does Russell Wilson make the HoF?

 

Yes they will cut him.  If they do it in March as has been reported, he would be a 50 million cap hit in 2024. If they let him go in June, they pay him 35.4 million. 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Why would they concede the playoffs?  The HC claims they are "desperately trying to win"  and that Stidham decision is based on "a spark".

 

My favorite part is this: "one of the things we saw when we signed Stidham in the offseason, not only from preseason games but regular-season games, but he's a guy I'm excited to see play."  Stidham took 4 snaps and attempted zero passes this year. 

 

Payton is a bum.   Washed up. Same will be true next year when they sign a guy like Minshew or The Passtronaut, while they try to groom a rookie QB.  That team is going nowhere with him.

 

 

Yes they will cut him.  If they do it in March as has been reported, he would be a 50 million cap hit in 2024. If they let him go in June, they pay him 35.4 million. 

 

 

I feel like Kirk Cousins would be a fit in a Payton offense, but he'll likely be too expensive given the cap situation.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Why would they concede the playoffs?  The HC claims they are "desperately trying to win"  and that Stidham decision is based on "a spark".

 

My favorite part is this: "one of the things we saw when we signed Stidham in the offseason, not only from preseason games but regular-season games, but he's a guy I'm excited to see play."  Stidham took 4 snaps and attempted zero passes this year. 

 

Payton is a bum.   Washed up. Same will be true next year when they sign a guy like Minshew or The Passtronaut, while they try to groom a rookie QB.  That team is going nowhere with him.

 

 

Yes they will cut him.  If they do it in March as has been reported, he would be a 50 million cap hit in 2024. If they let him go in June, they pay him 35.4 million. 

 

 

 

Russ is done. Finished. Toast. His stats this year are a mirage. I have watched a lot of the Broncos. I think I have seen him play well once. The Broncos have just acknowledged the reality.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Russ is done. Finished. Toast. His stats this year are a mirage. I have watched a lot of the Broncos. I think I have seen him play well once. The Broncos have just acknowledged the reality.

Well, he'd be an upgrade in Atlanta, which if it had Wilson would probably have won that division. The Steelers would be a 10-win team if they had him. He'll find a home. He's not the worst starting QB in the league even if he's clearly not elite.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Russ is done. Finished. Toast. His stats this year are a mirage. I have watched a lot of the Broncos. I think I have seen him play well once. The Broncos have just acknowledged the reality.

 

Was that the game against the Bills?

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Well, he'd be an upgrade in Atlanta, which if it had Wilson would probably have won that division. The Steelers would be a 10-win team if they had him. He'll find a home. He's not the worst starting QB in the league even if he's clearly not elite.

 

I agree he will find a home. He will start a season somewhere next year. Whether he finishes it I am less convinced. Depends on the team and where they are at. 

4 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

Was that the game against the Bills?

 

He played okay against the Bills. Really well in the win against Minnesota. Other than that... meh. 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree he will find a home. He will start a season somewhere next year. Whether he finishes it I am less convinced. Depends on the team and where they are at. 

Once you look around the league, you can see that he's a clear upgrade for some teams. Atlanta in particular sticks out like a sore thumb. The only reason they are under .500 is godawful QBing. They have no talent at the position.

[Saxum]

17 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Well, he'd be an upgrade in Atlanta, which if it had Wilson would probably have won that division. The Steelers would be a 10-win team if they had him. He'll find a home. He's not the worst starting QB in the league even if he's clearly not elite.

 

I do not think he is willing to be paid less than elite money so will be unsigned.  He does not love football so much like other players.

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

I have watched plenty of Russ over the years. Plenty. I'm saying look at him with Pete, without Pete, and the same with Geno. 

 

Geno hasn't been great this year and Russ is 35 now.  

 

*Geno isn't leading any team to a Super Bowl, let alone 2 and winning 1.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Chicken Boo

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

I do not think he is willing to be paid less than elite money so will be unsigned.  He does not love football so much like other players.

He likes fame, and will lose that if he stops playing. And someone will pay him $15 million-plus a year (at least). That's far more than he'll be able to make in any other line of work.

[ColoradoBills]

11 hours ago, stuvian said:

You're right. This move screams tank. I'm a Wilson fan but what he is being paid doesn't match with the results on the field. I think Payton was brought in to chase him out of town. The Broncos have no talent at the skill positions and play a 1980s offense when the rest of the league is going 4 and 5 wide. I will mark them as my tank team for next year's survivor pool a la the 2023 Cardinals.

 

I'm not totally sure it's an all-out tank.  It may depend on what Peyton's evaluation of players on the offensive side of the ball.

It's the other reason to bench Wilson.  He will get a look at how Stidham runs the offense and how they look with him.

 

The second part has to be who is the future at QB for them.  He could try to sign a guy like Cousins with a small cap hit in 2024 but Cousins

is the only "decent" QB on the market as of now.  Cousins could have a choice as to where he goes.  Stidham is signed for 2024 and maybe he 

just gets a Jake Browning or someone to compete and he waits on QB.  They will have a chance at some of the 2nd tier rookies.

 

Personally, if I was him, I would keep the D intact and completely redo the O this season.  Question on the O is, reach for the QB now or

rebuild a cheaper O with the plan to get the QB later.  I don't think with the cap situation he will have that he can do both.

 

We all will know which path he is going in March especially if a couple of the big money guys on the O get traded.  

[DCOrange]

Denver really screwed up with the Wilson and Payton moves. Convinced themselves that this roster was close to contending when it simply isn’t a good roster and then went all in on two guys that aren’t particularly good at their jobs anymore.

 

It’s not that Wilson is the worst QB in the league or anything but they’re getting bottom 5-10 starter play from a guy that’s getting top 5 QB money. You just can’t build a winner that way. Might as well strip this team down to the studs and start completely over IMO. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I feel like Kirk Cousins would be a fit in a Payton offense, but he'll likely be too expensive given the cap situation.

 

Payton's coaching genius existed only in the context of Drew Brees--and even then after wining a single SB with one the best QBs of all time, he had a stretch of 4 7-9 seasons in 5 years.  He isn't a competent HC--he neglects the Defensive side of the ball.  I see no QB scenario next year where they get to the playoffs. 

 

His pumping up Stidham is shameless. This is the QB that owners tell the HC to play when they want to get rid of their expensive starter (see: D. Carr).