Diggs/Cook first 1k WR/RB combo for Bills since 2012

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Stevie Johnson at one point was only WR for the Bills with 3 consecutive 1K seasons. Stevie deserves respect.

He smoked Richard Sherman and Darrell Revis in their primes. 

[warrior9]

20 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

It sure does.  Stevie and Spiller are not even top 10 all time Bills at their positions.  

Stevie not being a top 10 all time Bill at WR is quite literally blasphemy. He was a top 3 route runner in the league during his time with the Bills. 

 

I don't even think you believe what you posted and if you do, man, I feel horrible for you.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

20 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

It’s super unlikely but not totally impossible that Gabe can still get to 1000. If he just had anything in those no show games, he’d probably be in good shape to get there. He’d have to have some monster games but he can still get there.

Right? He’s only 275 yards away. Easily the most frustrating WR in the NFL. 

9 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Stevie not being a top 10 all time Bill at WR is quite literally blasphemy. He was a top 3 route runner in the league during his time with the Bills. 

 

I don't even think you believe what you posted and if you do, man, I feel horrible for you.

I mean technically Stevie is #9 in catches,  #10 in yards, and #8 in TDs so he would be a Top 10 WR. 

[warrior9]

32 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Right? He’s only 275 yards away. Easily the most frustrating WR in the NFL. 

I mean technically Stevie is #9 in catches,  #10 in yards, and #8 in TDs so he would be a Top 10 WR. 

Right, now let's look at the QB's he played with vs. the QB's the ones ahead of him played with. 

 

Stats are great and all but saying Stevie is outside top 10 Bill WR OAT is really really blasphemous.

[Bob in STL]

2 hours ago, warrior9 said:

Stevie not being a top 10 all time Bill at WR is quite literally blasphemy. He was a top 3 route runner in the league during his time with the Bills. 

 

I don't even think you believe what you posted and if you do, man, I feel horrible for you.

Really?  And just how do you measure “route running” to come up with that?   How do you compare route running in the 60’s, 70’s, 80, 90’s,  00’s. - all different eras, some eras had different rules.  
 

Looking at something tangible, like total yards gained, Stevie is 10th all time on the Bills.  He is the 9th all time WR on the Bills list if you take out running back Thurman Thomas.   Considering the era he played in, that alone does not put him in the top ten overall.  
 

WRs with more total yards are:  Reed, Moulds, Evans, Dubenion, Diggs, Lewis, Butler and Chandler  - some of these guys played in eras where they did not the throw the ball nearly as much either.   Some played against bump and run coverages.   Stevie played in the passing era of the NFL and still ranks just 9th, barely ahead of Peerless Price who ranks 10th.  
 

Stevie is actually only 11th all time in average yards per game.  Not outstanding at all considering he played in the throwing era.  Or maybe the Bills have had a lot of excellent WRs in their history?  
 

Don’t like using yards?   He is just 9th all time in receptions, 8th in TDs.   So he is decent, but again this is a passing era player.  

There are 4 more WR that were better overall receivers than Stevie but have less yards due years played, era, injury, trade -  Lofton, Beebe, JD Hill, and Glenn Bass. 
 

Stevie might be a “top 3 route runner in the NFL” as you suggest, I highly doubt it though given his rankings in the NFL during his era. 
 

All things considered, on the all time Bills WRs list he slots in around the 12 to 15 range IMO.  It’s gets hard to compare him to players from other eras.  Since I’ve seen every era, I put him outside top ten and somewhere around 12-15 seems about right - IMO.  
 

Nice guy.  Fun player.  A steal in the draft.  He did acquire 1000 yards in 3 straight years which is highly notable.  But I remember his drops and inconsistency as much as his good plays. 
 

PS. No need to feel horrible for me or you.  It’s just opinion, only mine is based on factual data.  

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Bob in STL

[warrior9]

27 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Really?  And just how do you measure “route running” to come up with that?   How do you compare route running in the 60’s, 70’s, 80, 90’s,  00’s. - all different eras, some eras had different rules.  
 

Looking at something tangible, like total yards gained, Stevie is 10th all time on the Bills.  He is the 9th all time WR on the Bills list if you take out running back Thurman Thomas.   Considering the era he played in, that alone does not put him in the top ten overall.  
 

WRs with more total yards are:  Reed, Moulds, Evans, Dubenion, Diggs, Lewis, Butler and Chandler  - some of these guys played in eras where they did not the throw the ball nearly as much either.   Some played against bump and run coverages.   Stevie played in the passing era of the NFL and still ranks just 9th, barely ahead of Peerless Price who ranks 10th.  
 

Stevie is actually only 11th all time in average yards per game.  Not outstanding at all considering he played in the throwing era.  Or maybe the Bills have had a lot of excellent WRs in their history?  
 

Don’t like using yards?   He is just 9th all time in receptions, 8th in TDs.   So he is decent, but again this is a passing era player.  

There are 4 more WR that were better overall receivers than Stevie but have less yards due years played, era, injury, trade -  Lofton, Beebe, JD Hill, and Glenn Bass. 
 

Stevie might be a “top 3 route runner in the NFL” as you suggest, I highly doubt it though given his rankings in the NFL during his era. 
 

All things considered, on the all time Bills WRs list he slots in around the 12 to 15 range IMO.  It’s gets hard to compare him to players from other eras.  Since I’ve seen every era, I put him outside top ten and somewhere around 12-15 seems about right - IMO.  
 

Nice guy.  Fun player.  A steal in the draft.  He did acquire 1000 yards in 3 straight years which is highly notable.  But I remember his drops and inconsistency as much as his good plays. 
 

PS. No need to feel horrible for me or you.  It’s just opinion, only mine is based on factual data.  

 

Throw out all the "he was best in the league in route running" (he was, btw.. ask Derrell Revis).

 

He is top 10 in every category .. with awful QBs. So no, yours isn't based on factual data. 9th in catches,  10th in yards, and 8th in TDs, in Bills history for WR.. 99.99% of people (you are the .01) that wouldn't view this as a top 10 based on facts LOL 

 

Let's talk about your "factual data" and how your "opinion" of 12-15 isn't "factually" correct.

 

Stevie was not in the current passing era... he last played 10 years ago...... everything your saying is poorly thought out opinions based on zero facts.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1655110-why-stevie-johnson-is-even-better-than-you-think PS, here is some knowledge for you for his route running. It's ok if you cant recognize talent man..  Unless Richard Sherman is also wrong? Wait, is John Lynch also wrong? 

Edited December 27, 2023 by warrior9

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 hour ago, warrior9 said:

Right, now let's look at the QB's he played with vs. the QB's the ones ahead of him played with. 

 

Stats are great and all but saying Stevie is outside top 10 Bill WR OAT is really really blasphemous.

Look I love Stevie. He's certainly in the top 10 most beloved in my generation, and he was a one of the few bright spots of the drought years. 

 

But let's look at some of the contenders: 

Jim Kelly

Josh Allen

Andree Reed

Bruce Smith

Thurman Thomas

Cornelius Bennett

Steve Tasker

James Lofton 

Eric Moulds

Darryl Talley

Jack Kemp

Frank Reich (the Comeback!)

OJ (you can hate the person, love the talent)

 

Fitz, Fast Freddie and Stevie will always have a place in my heart. But all time greats?

[Bray Wyatt]

27 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Look I love Stevie. He's certainly in the top 10 most beloved in my generation, and he was a one of the few bright spots of the drought years. 

 

But let's look at some of the contenders: 

Jim Kelly

Josh Allen

Andree Reed

Bruce Smith

Thurman Thomas

Cornelius Bennett

Steve Tasker

James Lofton 

Eric Moulds

Darryl Talley

Jack Kemp

Frank Reich (the Comeback!)

OJ (you can hate the person, love the talent)

 

Fitz, Fast Freddie and Stevie will always have a place in my heart. But all time greats?

 

Um he said top 10 Bills WR

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 minute ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

Um he said top 10 Bills WR

ahhh. Ok. Fair.

[RoyBatty is alive]

23 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

It sure does.  Stevie and Spiller are not even top 10 all time Bills at their positions.  

Stevie Johnson is very close to a top 10 Bills receivers, in fact all time yardarge list for receptionss he is listed as #10 which also includes ahead of him Thurman Thomas and Elbert Dubenion..

[warrior9]

58 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Look I love Stevie. He's certainly in the top 10 most beloved in my generation, and he was a one of the few bright spots of the drought years. 

 

But let's look at some of the contenders: 

Jim Kelly

Josh Allen

Andree Reed

Bruce Smith

Thurman Thomas

Cornelius Bennett

Steve Tasker

James Lofton 

Eric Moulds

Darryl Talley

Jack Kemp

Frank Reich (the Comeback!)

OJ (you can hate the person, love the talent)

 

Fitz, Fast Freddie and Stevie will always have a place in my heart. But all time greats?

He said top 10 per position my man. Not all time Bill

[Bob in STL]

48 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Throw out all the "he was best in the league in route running" (he was, btw.. ask Derrell Revis).

 

He is top 10 in every category .. with awful QBs. So no, yours isn't based on factual data. 9th in catches,  10th in yards, and 8th in TDs, in Bills history for WR.. 99.99% of people (you are the .01) that wouldn't view this as a top 10 based on facts LOL 

 

Let's talk about your "factual data" and how your "opinion" of 12-15 isn't "factually" correct.

 

Stevie was not in the current passing era... he last played 10 years ago...... everything your saying is poorly thought out opinions based on zero facts.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1655110-why-stevie-johnson-is-even-better-than-you-think PS, here is some knowledge for you for his route running. It's ok if you cant recognize talent man..  Unless Richard Sherman is also wrong? Wait, is John Lynch also wrong? 

 

What you first wrote to me was actually devoid of any facts or data.  I responded with data to back up my opinion and I actually provided more support for your assertion than you did.  

 

First you come up with "best route runner in the NFL", and now you say to forget that.    I don't have to forget it, because it is not true, and it was never true, even if one guy said it one time.   You found an article that says he is better than most people think.  I agree with that, he is better than most people think.  Because most people outside of Buffalo don't think much of him.  But in his era he was an average WR.  He was also inconsistent and he dropped passes, some at very critical times.  

 

You said he played with awful QBs.  Not quite true.  Stevie played with a a pretty good passing QB in Fitz.    Fitz is the Bills 5th all time passer, and 3rd best in passing yards per game.  He went on to play many years in the NFL, long after Stevie faded away.  Like it or not, after Allen, Kelly, Ferguson and Kemp, Fitz is the best of the remaining lot that includes Flutie, Bledsoe, and Taylor.   So your QB argument is invalid.  Lots of Bills WRs played with bad QBs at certain points in their careers.  

 

You have to look at the data and the era.  That is how I drop Stevie to 12-15.  He was good, but more like a good #2.   

 

So yes, he is 9th in catches, 10th in yards, 8th in TDs and he played from 2008 to 2013 (when teams threw much more than any prior area)  - statistically he cracks the top ten.  Then you look at players below him and you factor in the era, their time as a Bill, the number of seasons,  and their impacts to the team at that time.   I see better players with lesser stats.  Factoring in everything, in my opinion he is at best 12. 

 

If you don't agree that is fine.  I realize that maybe you, and a lot of fans here, never saw some of these other Bills players.   Again, I am giving you my opinion and I used the data and facts available while assessing players within their era to get to this opinion.  Perhaps in the future you can disagree without the wise cracks,  patronizing comments, and insults.

 

 

 

[Bob in STL]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Stevie Johnson is very close to a top 10 Bills receivers, in fact all time yardarge list for receptionss he is listed as #10 which also includes ahead of him Thurman Thomas and Elbert Dubenion..

Yes.  He is very close to #10. The stats I provided in another post show that he is.  

 

If we only go by yards/stats then in 20 more years the top 10 will all be players that played from 2005 and on.  Is that really the top 10?  

 

Stevie has more 1000 yards seasons than Paul Warfield (he only had 1), while Stevie had 3 in a row with Fitz.  Who was the better player?  Is it even a conversation?   That is why I look beyond the stats.   

 

It is getting impossible to compare WRs from other eras.  The game is different now.  

[finn]

22 hours ago, ganesh said:

But the spiller pick was insane considering we already had two very good RBs in beast mode and Jackson 

To think we passed on Roger Saffold. 😛