wnyguy Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 4 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: No, I say the documents were classified because the documents themselves bear classification markings. Trump never denied he had documents marked "Secret" or even "Top Secret" at Mar-a-Lago. He claimed that he had declassified them. So the whole "set up" defense in nonsense. Once the President declassifies the documents they cease to be classified. No need for the coversheet stunts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I wonder if the people who believe that the FBI was trying to set up Trump also believe that drug dealers neatly stack their drugs, guns, and money on tables at police precincts... Do those drugs, guns, and money have proprietary government classification markings? And did the cops add any extra drugs or guns to the stack to make it more dramatic? I think that would be embellishment. Edited June 25 by All_Pro_Bills 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) 3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Do those drugs, guns, and money have proprietary government classification markings? And did the cops add any extra drugs or guns to the stack to make it more dramatic? I think that would be embellishment. Adding classification markings to both protect the underlying classified material and to document for evidentiary purposes which documents were classified is not embellishment. There seems to be quite a bit of confusion here between the investigators and the media. I do not blame investigators for the media being dumb and bad. If the cops put a sign on the drugs that said "cocaine" and a sign on a gun that said "glock," I don't think that'd be embellishment. Edited June 25 by ChiGoose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnyguy Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 2 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I wonder if the people who believe that the FBI was trying to set up Trump also believe that drug dealers neatly stack their drugs, guns, and money on tables at police precincts... And yet the FBI has admitted to tampering with the evidence already. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 2 minutes ago, wnyguy said: And yet the FBI has admitted to tampering with the evidence already. Do not take legal advice from food bloggers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnyguy Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 9 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Adding classification markings to both protect the underlying classified material and to document for evidentiary purposes which documents were classified is not embellishment. There seems to be quite a bit of confusion here between the investigators and the media. I do not blame investigators for the media being dumb and bad. If the cops put a sign on the drugs that said "cocaine" and a sign on a gun that said "glock," I don't think that'd be embellishment. Would those signs cover up the alleged cocaine or glock that may very well be baby powder and a BB gun? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 29 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: 7 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 7 minutes ago, wnyguy said: Would those signs cover up the alleged cocaine or glock that may very well be baby powder and a BB gun? Well, not in the Mar A Lago case where they found documents with classification markings as well as classification folders/cover sheets (many of which were empty). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 1 minute ago, ChiGoose said: Well, not in the Mar A Lago case where they found documents with classification markings as well as classification folders/cover sheets (many of which were empty). As a former president, was he allowed to declassify them and take them? Now, how about bribem? He stole classified documents when he was a senator! Which according to the rule of law, he stole them! You definitely are a special kind of stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biden is Mentally Fit Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 1 minute ago, Westside said: He stole classified documents when he was a senator! That was spillage that a low-level staffer made happen to him. Pretty sure that was the original argument from Chigoose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 1 minute ago, Westside said: As a former president, was he allowed to declassify them and take them? Now, how about bribem? He stole classified documents when he was a senator! Which according to the rule of law, he stole them! You definitely are a special kind of stupid. Given all of the coverage, and all of the analysis and even the Hur report, I really don't get how people still don't understand this. Trump got in trouble solely because he obstructed the investigation. He could have stolen all of the documents, not declassified them, paraded them about Mar a Lago, wallpapered his office with them, and he *still* wouldn't have been charged if he had simply given them back when the government asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 11 minutes ago, Westside said: As a former president, was he allowed to declassify them and take them? Now, how about bribem? He stole classified documents when he was a senator! Which according to the rule of law, he stole them! You definitely are a special kind of stupid. He was allowed to declassify them. If he had done so, shouldn't he have told someone so the rest of the government stopped treating other copies of these reports as classified? Regardless, he was not allowed to take them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 11 minutes ago, B-Man said: Shocking news as it turns out the police regularly fabricate photos such as these: 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 7 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Shocking news as it turns out the police regularly fabricate photos such as these: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: The photo was included in a court filing to show the types of documents that were found during the search. The fact that some in the media took that and did not put it in the proper context isn't the fault of the investigators. Should they have just decided not to provide evidence to the court under the theory that some people might misinterpret it? People still seem to be confusing the investigation with the media coverage of it... 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 34 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: The photo was included in a court filing to show the types of documents that were found during the search. The fact that some in the media took that and did not put it in the proper context isn't the fault of the investigators. Should they have just decided not to provide evidence to the court under the theory that some people might misinterpret it? People still seem to be confusing the investigation with the media coverage of it... Right. And it's our old friend Julie Kelly spreading misinformation again. Here's what they drill into you if you have a security clearance: - the document itself is classified at the level noted on it. - you must put a cover sheet on the document to avoid having it picked up by cameras, snooping eyes, etc. (this has happened). The cover sheet notes the highest level of classification in the document. For example, some paragraphs may be unclassified, marked by (U). But if other paragraphs are Secret (S) the whole document is considered Secret and the cover sheet will include Secret. - any derivative document including the information in the classified documents is considered classified at the same level. So a photo of the text of a secret document is also secret and must be similarly secured. This would include a memory card. When you go into a SCIF to discuss a classified documents, you check your phone outside. If you take notes during the discussion, those notes must be destroyed (typically a shredder meeting the standards for national security documents; they're pretty fun since they reduce the document to something like a powder; no gluing strips of shredded docs together like they did in the movie Argo) before you leave the SCIF. Classified documents must be secured in a safe authorized for classified storage, and someone has to sign a card every day noting that the safe was checked, was secured, and nothing seems out of place. Everyone knows this. As I said, they drill it into you. Yes, Biden knew this (unless he knew and forgot it). Trump knew this (unless he knew and forgot or was incapable of learning). - 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Evolving timeline of classified docs cover sheets per DOJ: * Documents were found during MAL raid with classified cover sheets (August 2022) * Well actually FBI agents brought cover sheets to the raid but only to use as "placeholders" indicating where a classified record was found (Feb 2024) * Well actually FBI agents took the so-called placeholder sheets and instead attached them to documents and took photos (June 2024) Standard operating procedure folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: You do (don't) realize that a photo of actual classified material (not the cover sheet) makes the memory chip in the camera classified too? To be fair, though, it seems as if the DOJ didn't really care much one way or another what was classified at this level, who was handling it, or where it was stashed for a couple hundred years +/-...until suddenly we were in the midst of a full blown classified document crisis centering around one individual. What's weird is that one individual wasn't the guy with a documented history of seizing/maintaining classified documents over several decades, and where classified information was shared and evidence destroyed by a third party, with no rhyme, reason or sensible security standards applied. To boot, the story goes the photos leaked by the SC/DOJ office were staged and included cover sheets prepared by the government with files strewn about on the floor, and the only reasonable explanation is that this is how the process works? I know this is crazy talk, but why not run with 'no leaked photos of staged documents and imported cover sheets' to avoid the appearance of impropriety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: To be fair, though, it seems as if the DOJ didn't really care much one way or another what was classified at this level, who was handling it, or where it was stashed for a couple hundred years +/-...until suddenly we were in the midst of a full blown classified document crisis centering around one individual. What's weird is that one individual wasn't the guy with a documented history of seizing/maintaining classified documents over several decades, and where classified information was shared and evidence destroyed by a third party, with no rhyme, reason or sensible security standards applied. To boot, the story goes the photos leaked by the SC/DOJ office were staged and included cover sheets prepared by the government with files strewn about on the floor, and the only reasonable explanation is that this is how the process works? I know this is crazy talk, but why not run with 'no leaked photos of staged documents and imported cover sheets' to avoid the appearance of impropriety? I suggest the raid had two purposes. One, to secure some specific and as of yet undisclosed set classified documents the government didn't want "revealed". Some have suggested Trump scooted away with some Russian collusion hoax documents that painted the FBI and IC in less than flattering terms. Whether they recovered the only copy is unclear. Two, to create negative public opinion and perception of the targeted individual. Hence, the staged photos. The DOJ's got a little bit of Hollywood in their blood and in general the people running the operation know how to put on a good show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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