Greg Van Roten Pro Bowl?

[PetermansRedemption]

17 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Hey, remember when Tyler Huntley made the Pro Bowl at QB last year?

 

The Pro Bowl is a joke.

Pro bowl is absolutely a joke. All-pro is a lot higher of an honor IMO. Pro bowl “games” shouldn’t even exist anymore. You want a real pro bowl? Make the all-stars participate in an 6 man football tournament chosen by a school yard pick. Offer a 1 million prize per player to the winning team. 

[34-78-83]

Van Roten is not good. This doesn't change that.

[billsfan89]

14 minutes ago, boyst said:

if we had kept Teller and Van Roten and evaluated LB's properly in the draft we might not have needed to use resources on the line we have now. just sayin.

 

What massive resources were spent along the offensive line? A mid-level free-agent addition in McGovern and a late second-round pick in Torrence? Dawkins has been here since 2017 and Mitch since 2019, Brown was a late 3rd round pick in 2021. Seems like the Bills did a good job overhauling the line without much in terms of resources. 

 

We definitely should have kept Teller, not saying that wasn't a blunder but every regime has bad moves no matter how great they are. But there was no reason to bring back Von Rotten and have him start. Von Rotten was 32 years old and had never been more than a marginal backup and in his lone year with the Bills he was terrible. There was no reason to believe that he was anything more than a mid-level backup at this point in his career. 

 

Also what massive resources have been spent at LB? Two late third-round picks? At this point, you are just looking for something to be aggrieved about. 

[JGMcD2]

12 hours ago, boyst said:

Spector, Edmunds,  Joseph, a few others im forgetting

I suppose I’ll give you credit for the Edmunds answer… not sure how you *miss* on your evaluation of a player when he signs for the 3rd highest LB AAV in the league, but I’ll give you that one because it’s the closest you are to being right. 
 

Bringing up 5th and 7th round pick picks is odd considering it’s hard to hit there. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by JGMcD2

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Pro bowl is absolutely a joke. All-pro is a lot higher of an honor IMO. Pro bowl “games” shouldn’t even exist anymore. You want a real pro bowl? Make the all-stars participate in an 6 man football tournament chosen by a school yard pick. Offer a 1 million prize per player to the winning team. 

 

They should "name" a Pro Bowl team as I think having some sort of secondary recognition beyond simply two All-Pro teams is a good idea. But the actual game or event should be done away with. Sadly it is still a TV product that gets ratings so they will continue to do it.

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I don't get your point.     Your original argument was that the Bills were bad at evaluating vets because they should have kept Teller and Van Roten.  The people you listed are JAGs or folks from way before Beane (Hopkins, Greer) or way too expensive (Tremaine Edmunds --   a decent player but not worth the money the Bears gave him).  So are you saying the Bills are okay at evaluating vets?

 

 

 

No. I was mocking the take of what talent evaluation was and how it's subjective. 

 

Imo keeping younger talent on the roster to develop with an embedded starting QB, and skill players... That's when I value building the trenches with youth. We did that with the DL and didn't choose well, though I am not that disappointed with AJE.

 

But, pulling back up to the top: veteran signings were weak. Harty, Sherfield, Arizona linebacker dude, etc... and then pulling in the line specifically we didn't do well we had Felciano, Saffold, and some others I can't even remember but were poor choices. Bates was the only one I thought was worthy. Boettiger, and others - not so much. 

40 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

What massive resources were spent along the offensive line? A mid-level free-agent addition in McGovern and a late second-round pick in Torrence? Dawkins has been here since 2017 and Mitch since 2019, Brown was a late 3rd round pick in 2021. Seems like the Bills did a good job overhauling the line without much in terms of resources. 

 

We definitely should have kept Teller, not saying that wasn't a blunder but every regime has bad moves no matter how great they are. But there was no reason to bring back Von Rotten and have him start. Von Rotten was 32 years old and had never been more than a marginal backup and in his lone year with the Bills he was terrible. There was no reason to believe that he was anything more than a mid-level backup at this point in his career. 

 

Also what massive resources have been spent at LB? Two late third-round picks? At this point, you are just looking for something to be aggrieved about. 

Edmunds was a bit of a whiff and over draft. I can't remember nor do I have the time to go through the OL we brought in but there were a few vets that were barely JAGS to take depth roles over youth. I can look them up later 

40 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I suppose I’ll give you credit for the Edmunds answer… not sure how you *miss* on your evaluation of a player when he signs for the 3rd highest LB AAV in the league, but I’ll give you that one because it’s the closest you are to being right. 
 

Bringing up 5th and 7th round pick picks is odd considering it’s hard to hit there. 

Those are just the veterans. We tried to keep others in here that I just don't think we need and I've always been concerned we use two depth positions at LB exclusively for ST'ers. 

[Process]

He's about to be 34yo. Who gives a damn. Very happy with the guys we have. 

[billsfan89]

59 minutes ago, boyst said:

 

Edmunds was a bit of a whiff and over draft. I can't remember nor do I have the time to go through the OL we brought in but there were a few vets that were barely JAGS to take depth roles over youth. I can look them up later 

 

 

Edmunds started 5 seasons with the team and while I don't think he lived up to the billing he certainly was a solid player who filled a role and got this team a comp pick, and that's one draft resource from 2018. The team has not invested much in the position since then unless you count two later-round picks in 2022/23 or AJ Klein's lower mid-level free-agent signing in 2020 as being massive resources. 

 

Offensive line the resources invested from 2020 to 2022 were far too limited. From 2020-2022 they only put one pick in the first 4 rounds into the offensive line (Spencer Brown a late 3rd round pick) and their biggest free agency signing was Saffold a mid-tier contract or resigning D. Williams to a modest extension. They always attempted to develop guys at the end of the bench like Ike or Bates. 

 

I think your categorization and criticism just falls flat. If you really want to say where the Bills "overinvested" in years past I would say the defensive line has had a lot of big whiffs. Addison, Star, Murphy, and Butler were big additions cap-wise that fell flat. Those cap dollars could have been better spent on the offensive line or at WR. 

[Doc]

15 minutes ago, Process said:

He's about to be 34yo. Who gives a damn. Very happy with the guys we have. 

 

The Raiders will give him a 5-year $100M deal...

[boyst]

7 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Edmunds started 5 seasons with the team and while I don't think he lived up to the billing he certainly was a solid player who filled a role and got this team a comp pick, and that's one draft resource from 2018. The team has not invested much in the position since then unless you count two later-round picks in 2022/23 or AJ Klein's lower mid-level free-agent signing in 2020 as being massive resources. 

 

Offensive line the resources invested from 2020 to 2022 were far too limited. From 2020-2022 they only put one pick in the first 4 rounds into the offensive line (Spencer Brown a late 3rd round pick) and their biggest free agency signing was Saffold a mid-tier contract or resigning D. Williams to a modest extension. They always attempted to develop guys at the end of the bench like Ike or Bates. 

 

I think your categorization and criticism just falls flat. If you really want to say where the Bills "overinvested" in years past I would say the defensive line has had a lot of big whiffs. Addison, Star, Murphy, and Butler were big additions cap-wise that fell flat. Those cap dollars could have been better spent on the offensive line or at WR. 

So all of this boils down to the quality of our performance evaluation at the position, eh?

[billsfan89]

56 minutes ago, boyst said:

So all of this boils down to the quality of our performance evaluation at the position, eh?

 

It boils down to how many high draft picks and cap dollars are spent at positions vs. how much production has been achieved at those positions. If you invest 3 first-round picks in 4 years along the defensive line you better have a dam good defensive line. Whereas if you don't spend many draft choices and not a lot of cap dollars along the defensive line and you field a decent unit that's actually not a bad result. 

[Doc Brown]

On 12/21/2023 at 5:47 PM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

First string ProBowl is not a joke. Being named an alternate and then making the ProBowl because 5 other guys declined is a joke.

 

Dustin Hopkins may be All-Pro K this year. He is on his fourth team after the BIlls gave up on him.  He was OK with Washington but now is having his best year of his career at age 33.

Maybe not but I wish the selection process was similar to All Pro selections where it's a collection of 50 national media members.  Fans, players, and coaches have too much biases and/or don't really take the time to make an educated decision.  Fellow players in particular will prop a QB up when they're do for a new contract or receive higher 5th year options if they make the Pro Bowl (think Tremaine Edmunds).  Lamar making it over Allen in 2021 is the most ridiculous snub I can recall.  Kyler over Stafford was also ludicrous that same year.