Offensive Supporting Cast

[Solomon Grundy]

9 hours ago, Dillenger4 said:

Yep - I agree OP. Well said for sure. Even Shakir - I wish we used him more as he looks potent at times. And don't forget Ty Johnson... he is a beast and very hard to tackle. Ty will be a cog for us as we approach the playoffs.

Finally some recognition for Ty Johnson!! 

[stinky finger]

8 hours ago, NewEra said:

The RB group is very good.  The TE group is very good.  The OL looks to be good/very good.  The WR group is lacking but they have roles that work what could be our new identity. Diggs is an elite WR that is having a rough go as of late.  I have no worries about him on game days.  Davis and Sheffield are two of the best blocking WRs in the league and aren’t bums in the passing game.  Shakir looks to be emerging as a solid WR3 option.  
 

Going forward- we only need to worry about adding a legit WR2……unless we just plan to pound the rock and decide resign gabe.  I don’t see that happening tho.  He’ll probably chase the most $ and I hope that’s not us). 

Agree on RB group. TEs very good? Disagree there. Could be good. Lacking consistency as I see it. Diggs, while kind of stale recently, will be himself I believe. Shakir is the only other I trust.

 

OL I agree, Good and becoming better and with attitude. 

[mannc]

9 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Vikings obviously better

Cowboys

Bengals

Rams

Chargers

All likely better or close

Bills have midtier talent on offense

Chargers????????🤣🤣🤣

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

 

Deebo is in the best offense in football, with the best play caller in football.  Put deebo on the Bills and you see a different deebo.  He’s not a good route runner.  He’s a great runner with the ball

 

I agree with this with Deebo. I said it when he was holding out and requesting a trade. Be careful what you wish for because I think his skillset is a really specific fit for what Kyle Shanahan does. And I know there are a ton of Shanahan copycats now but I am not sure any of them understand that offense as well as the master. Deebo is absolutely an elite player in that scheme. I am not sure he is a guy who would be elite wherever he was. 

[GoBills808]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

The position has always been somewhat QB dependent no?  Are Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne in the HoF if the Bills had drafted them instead of the colts?  Is Jerry rice the greatest WR ever if he was drafted by the cardinals?  
 

Diggs had two things in the way while he was in Minny- having another top WR in theilen and had bridgewater, Bradford and keenum his first 3 years.  Cousins for his next two.  Yet our GN thought he was worth multiple draft picks.  Beane thought he was top 10.  

 

I didn’t think he was a top 5 WR in minny but I thought he was top 10.  What he’s shown his first 3.5 years in Buffalo makes me believe he’s top 5.  Def top 10.  He’s hit a rough patch.  It happens.  Not sure why anyone would doubt him based on a rough patch

I stand by my comment that he’d be voted top 10 WR by just about every nfl

player. If not all.  
 

You listed 8 and some might still regard Diggs as better than Deebo….. a RB playing WR in a freaky system.  

You’d take deebo over Diggs? 🤣 

It matters for sure

 

Diggs has always been borderline elite for me, doesn't have elite physical tools. And if people want to lie and say they thought he was top5 in Minnesota that's fine but he was like 15th in yards and 26th in TDs his last year there😂😂

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This points to another problem in our offense, we don't have anyone that can win at the catch point. Either Diggs wins his route or one of the other guys gets schemed open or forgotten about by the defense. I can't think of many offenses that don't have a go to guy where if you see him 1v1 you can just toss the ball in his general direction and there's a better than even chance he'll come down with it. Kincaid was advertised as a great contested catch guy but he isn't there yet.

 

Similarly we don't have anyone that truly scares defenses with the ball in their hands. Cook is the best we have in that area but he is never going to catch a 5 yard slant and turn it into a 50 yard TD.

 

The more I think about it the more perplexed I am by this thread. We have one pass catcher that consistently separates at an above average level and even he has not been dominant. We have zero contested catch specialists. We have zero elite YAC guys. As a result, the offense has a crazy low margin for error.

 

 

Few thoughts on this:

 

1. I'm not sure who advertised Kincaid as a contested catch guy. He has good hands but he is the tight end equivalent of Stef, he wins with crafty, nuanced route running. 

 

2. I am not big on contested catch guys personally. I don't really want us to focus on finding that. I'd much rather get people who separate either with burst or route running. 

 

3. Definitely true that we lack a guy who can win quickly - which is an issue in games like the Chiefs one where they are beating our protection quickly and Josh can't just let one go in the general direction of a guy he can confident will win his assignment. The overall wide receiver corps is still below average. I'm happy with Kincaid and think he will get better and better, but man I wanted Jordan Addison badly and he was perfect for this offense. I'm also very confident he'd have been the pick. Missing him by two spots sucks. Looks a deeper WR draft at the top this year though, so fingers crossed.

 

4. The thread is still a justified thread. The oline performance the past two years has been dreadful and it has majorly hamstrung offensive performance. That is not a justifiable criticism this year. I don't think the oline is dominant (it isn't the Eagles line) but has been halfway or just above halfway up the NFL this season. Certainly better than Cincy, and I think better than San Fran really who while they have an elite of the elite at LT as soon as Williams was out you saw how bad they were without him - when the second best starter on your line is Jon Feliciano you are in trouble. And James Cook has emerged as a top 5 back who is still clocking over 5ypc while handling a #1 back number of carries and is a genuine dual threat. The supporting cast is improved. At times last year (especially with Dion underperforming in 2022) you could legitimately argue it was Josh Allen, Stef Diggs and 9 JAGs. It has not been that this year. They can still get better, sure, especially at receiver.

 

5. I think you are spot on about the low margin of error in the pass game. And it is why ultimately Ken Dorsey had to go. Ken's offense wasn't horrible, but it was pretty vanilla. Pretty simple. And therefore it put a lot of emphasis on execution. More emphasis than the playmaking talent on this roster could handle on a consistent basis. Brady hasn't overhauled the scheme, it is almost impossible to do that in-season even if he wanted to. But they are using more pre-snap shift and motion, in run and pass game, which is giving them a numbers and leverage advantage on multiple plays and he is calling fewer hitch / comeback routes that necessarily limit YAC potential. These are routes Josh has always been very comfortable with and because of his alleged closeness with Dorsey I kinda wonder if Dors pandered to him too much on calling them. But Brady has found a way to get the ball to the middle more with his calls. Again, it isn't radical overhaul.... it is just a slightly more creative approach to doing the same stuff and it has increased some of that "margin of error" which is a good thing (while I am on that subject this blog is highly recommended reading). 

 

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

It matters for sure

 

Diggs has always been borderline elite for me, doesn't have elite physical tools. And if people want to lie and say they thought he was top5 in Minnesota that's fine but he was like 15th in yards and 26th in TDs his last year there😂😂

 

Not a lie from me. I said on here I thought he was clear top 10 and a borderline top 5 receiver when the trade went down. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Teddy KGB]

16 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There was some narrative early in the season that Allen was surrounded by bums. Josh is our best player and a top 3 qb but can we finally argee that there is legit good talent on this offense? 
 

- one of the most improved (and honestly one of the best o lines in the nfl)

- a top 5 receiver 

- a top 5 rb who is breaking out big time 

- a 1st round TE who is emerging as one of the best receiving TEs in the nfl 

 

 

obviously, Allen is the star but can we finally admit this is a really good group around him? How many groups are better? SF, Philly, Miami, and maybe Detroit? 

I thought only Knox and Gabe Davis were bums iirc 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I think Cook is a nice diversion for the main problem still, and that is no playmaking threat at WR. 

[FireChans]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

It's all relative right

 

If the Browns or Jets had a QB their weapons would look on par w ours

I don't think either of those teams have as good of WR's as Diggs tbh

[PBF81]

19 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Vikings obviously better

Cowboys

Bengals

Rams

Chargers

All likely better or close

Bills have midtier talent on offense

 

Chargers?

 

You'd rather have Ekeler, Keenan Allen, Josh Palmer, and Gerald Everett (TE), than Cook, Diggs, Davis, Shakir, and Kincaid?

 

 

19 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There was some narrative early in the season that Allen was surrounded by bums. Josh is our best player and a top 3 qb but can we finally argee that there is legit good talent on this offense? 
 

- one of the most improved (and honestly one of the best o lines in the nfl)

- a top 5 receiver 

- a top 5 rb who is breaking out big time 

- a 1st round TE who is emerging as one of the best receiving TEs in the nfl 

 

 

obviously, Allen is the star but can we finally admit this is a really good group around him? How many groups are better? SF, Philly, Miami, and maybe Detroit? 

 

We're well above average regardless.  The way everyone talks you'd think we suck in the talent department.

 

This offense should have been seeing records this season. 

 

 

[Bobby Hooks]

19 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

The only thing missing is the guy that can make the long play. Gabe was the one for a bit but no longer. 

Gotta wait for the playoffs, then playoff Gabe will come to play. 
 

With that said, where’s playoff Lenny? 

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Few thoughts on this:

 

1. I'm not sure who advertised Kincaid as a contested catch guy. He has good hands but he is the tight end equivalent of Stef, he wins with crafty, nuanced route running. 

 

2. I am not big on contested catch guys personally. I don't really want us to focus on finding that. I'd much rather get people who separate either with burst or route running. 

 

3. Definitely true that we lack a guy who can win quickly - which is an issue in games like the Chiefs one where they are beating our protection quickly and Josh can't just let one go in the general direction of a guy he can confident will win his assignment. The overall wide receiver corps is still below average. I'm happy with Kincaid and think he will get better and better, but man I wanted Jordan Addison badly and he was perfect for this offense. I'm also very confident he'd have been the pick. Missing him by two spots sucks. Looks a deeper WR draft at the top this year though, so fingers crossed.

 

4. The thread is still a justified thread. The oline performance the past two years has been dreadful and it has majorly hamstrung offensive performance. That is not a justifiable criticism this year. I don't think the oline is dominant (it isn't the Eagles line) but has been halfway or just above halfway up the NFL this season. Certainly better than Cincy, and I think better than San Fran really who while they have an elite of the elite at LT as soon as Williams was out you saw how bad they were without him - when the second best starter on your line is Jon Feliciano you are in trouble. And James Cook has emerged as a top 5 back who is still clocking over 5ypc while handling a #1 back number of carries and is a genuine dual threat. The supporting cast is improved. At times last year (especially with Dion underperforming in 2022) you could legitimately argue it was Josh Allen, Stef Diggs and 9 JAGs. It has not been that this year. They can still get better, sure, especially at receiver.

 

5. I think you are spot on about the low margin of error in the pass game. And it is why ultimately Ken Dorsey had to go. Ken's offense wasn't horrible, but it was pretty vanilla. Pretty simple. And therefore it put a lot of emphasis on execution. More emphasis than the playmaking talent on this roster could handle on a consistent basis. Brady hasn't overhauled the scheme, it is almost impossible to do that in-season even if he wanted to. But they are using more pre-snap shift and motion, in run and pass game, which is giving them a numbers and leverage advantage on multiple plays and he is calling fewer hitch / comeback routes that necessarily limit YAC potential. These are routes Josh has always been very comfortable with and because of his alleged closeness with Dorsey I kinda wonder if Dors pandered to him too much on calling them. But Brady has found a way to get the ball to the middle more with his calls. Again, it isn't radical overhaul.... it is just a slightly more creative approach to doing the same stuff and it has increased some of that "margin of error" which is a good thing (while I am on that subject this blog is highly recommended reading).

 

I don't disagree with a lot of what you said here. It just comes down to priorities. Like I agree that scouting contested catch specialists is not a good use of resources. But most offenses have a pass catcher that can make them from time to time, in addition to whatever other receiving skills they have. We don't have anybody that can make contested catches at all. Which means if the intended target doesn't flat out beat his coverage man on the route, or isn't schemed wide open, the pass has no chance of being completed. That's an unusual weakness for a supposedly championship caliber offense.

 

The OL is better than it was last year but it's not really a strength of the team. There are still a few too many 1v1 losses. The protection scheme still gets broken down by stunts and blitzes too frequently. And I'm fine with this... I don't think a team needs the best OL in football to compete for a championship. But I struggle to make the leap from "the OL is maybe slightly above average now" to "the offensive personnel isn't as bad as people say."

 

Ditto for talking about Cook. Having a top 5ish RB is a luxury. It isn't the engine that drives championship offenses. And running the offense through a RB inevitably creates that low margin for error. I've noticed this year that holding calls more than ever before in the Josh Allen era are killing drives (I don't have stats on this, but that's how it has felt). In the past I always felt confident even on 3rd and 15, but this year it feels like drives are DOA with any kind of negative play. I don't think this is a coincidence. We are having to paper over some pretty large weaknesses in skill position personnel, and those weaknesses get exposed quickly with the slightest misstep. The low margin for error is still there... Brady has just done a better job of papering over it than Dorsey did. And if you agree with me about the low margin for error, you must agree there are personnel issues creating it.

 

I know I'm a broken record on this but the lack of a true go-to #2 pass catcher is still a massive problem for the team. Every recent Super Bowl participant has had a #2 pass catcher that is much better than Davis (or Kincaid for that matter, who as a rookie is still learning). The worst in recent years was JuJu Smith-Schuster for the Chiefs last year. That's the floor and we are not meeting that floor right now. I think Kincaid can get there as early as next year, but talking about this season only it is a noticeable missing element for our offense.

 

And this is a talking point I never thought I would be bringing up this year, but now I am concerned that our #1 pass catcher is not at the caliber of other team's #1s. The Diggs that we've seen in the past month especially has not been even a top 10 WR.

 

If that trend with Diggs continues, we're running an offense with a slightly above average OL, where our best skill player is a RB, our best WR is somewhere outside the top 10, our 2nd best pass catcher is a rookie TE, and everyone else is a JAG or worse. That does not come close to fitting the profile of a championship offense.

 

There is still a path to us winning the Super Bowl. Allen plays elite football the rest of the way, the defense plays like a top 5 defense, the run game continues to look like a top 5 run offense, Bass gets over whatever his issue has been this year, and we get a few bounces of the ball to go our way. But it's frustrating that the path isn't easier than that solely because Brandon Beane failed to bring in a substantial upgrade to our skill position personnel.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't disagree with a lot of what you said here. It just comes down to priorities. Like I agree that scouting contested catch specialists is not a good use of resources. But most offenses have a pass catcher that can make them from time to time, in addition to whatever other receiving skills they have. We don't have anybody that can make contested catches at all. Which means if the intended target doesn't flat out beat his coverage man on the route, or isn't schemed wide open, the pass has no chance of being completed. That's an unusual weakness for a supposedly championship caliber offense.

 

The OL is better than it was last year but it's not really a strength of the team. There are still a few too many 1v1 losses. The protection scheme still gets broken down by stunts and blitzes too frequently. And I'm fine with this... I don't think a team needs the best OL in football to compete for a championship. But I struggle to make the leap from "the OL is maybe slightly above average now" to "the offensive personnel isn't as bad as people say."

 

Ditto for talking about Cook. Having a top 5ish RB is a luxury. It isn't the engine that drives championship offenses. And running the offense through a RB inevitably creates that low margin for error. I've noticed this year that holding calls more than ever before in the Josh Allen era are killing drives (I don't have stats on this, but that's how it has felt). In the past I always felt confident even on 3rd and 15, but this year it feels like drives are DOA with any kind of negative play. I don't think this is a coincidence. We are having to paper over some pretty large weaknesses in skill position personnel, and those weaknesses get exposed quickly with the slightest misstep. The low margin for error is still there... Brady has just done a better job of papering over it than Dorsey did. And if you agree with me about the low margin for error, you must agree there are personnel issues creating it.

 

I know I'm a broken record on this but the lack of a true go-to #2 pass catcher is still a massive problem for the team. Every recent Super Bowl participant has had a #2 pass catcher that is much better than Davis (or Kincaid for that matter, who as a rookie is still learning). The worst in recent years was JuJu Smith-Schuster for the Chiefs last year. That's the floor and we are not meeting that floor right now. I think Kincaid can get there as early as next year, but talking about this season only it is a noticeable missing element for our offense.

 

And this is a talking point I never thought I would be bringing up this year, but now I am concerned that our #1 pass catcher is not at the caliber of other team's #1s. The Diggs that we've seen in the past month especially has not been even a top 10 WR.

 

If that trend with Diggs continues, we're running an offense with a slightly above average OL, where our best skill player is a RB, our best WR is somewhere outside the top 10, our 2nd best pass catcher is a rookie TE, and everyone else is a JAG or worse. That does not come close to fitting the profile of a championship offense.

 

There is still a path to us winning the Super Bowl. Allen plays elite football the rest of the way, the defense plays like a top 5 defense, the run game continues to look like a top 5 run offense, Bass gets over whatever his issue has been this year, and we get a few bounces of the ball to go our way. But it's frustrating that the path isn't easier than that solely because Brandon Beane failed to bring in a substantial upgrade to our skill position personnel.

 

Our offensive line is not slightly above average...by many metrics it is one of the best in the NFL. Allen is the least sacked QB in the NFL.  Cook is averaging over 5 YPC, not much you can complain about with them really.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Big Turk

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't disagree with a lot of what you said here. It just comes down to priorities. Like I agree that scouting contested catch specialists is not a good use of resources. But most offenses have a pass catcher that can make them from time to time, in addition to whatever other receiving skills they have. We don't have anybody that can make contested catches at all. Which means if the intended target doesn't flat out beat his coverage man on the route, or isn't schemed wide open, the pass has no chance of being completed. That's an unusual weakness for a supposedly championship caliber offense.

 

The OL is better than it was last year but it's not really a strength of the team. There are still a few too many 1v1 losses. The protection scheme still gets broken down by stunts and blitzes too frequently. And I'm fine with this... I don't think a team needs the best OL in football to compete for a championship. But I struggle to make the leap from "the OL is maybe slightly above average now" to "the offensive personnel isn't as bad as people say."

 

Ditto for talking about Cook. Having a top 5ish RB is a luxury. It isn't the engine that drives championship offenses. And running the offense through a RB inevitably creates that low margin for error. I've noticed this year that holding calls more than ever before in the Josh Allen era are killing drives (I don't have stats on this, but that's how it has felt). In the past I always felt confident even on 3rd and 15, but this year it feels like drives are DOA with any kind of negative play. I don't think this is a coincidence. We are having to paper over some pretty large weaknesses in skill position personnel, and those weaknesses get exposed quickly with the slightest misstep. The low margin for error is still there... Brady has just done a better job of papering over it than Dorsey did. And if you agree with me about the low margin for error, you must agree there are personnel issues creating it.

 

I know I'm a broken record on this but the lack of a true go-to #2 pass catcher is still a massive problem for the team. Every recent Super Bowl participant has had a #2 pass catcher that is much better than Davis (or Kincaid for that matter, who as a rookie is still learning). The worst in recent years was JuJu Smith-Schuster for the Chiefs last year. That's the floor and we are not meeting that floor right now. I think Kincaid can get there as early as next year, but talking about this season only it is a noticeable missing element for our offense.

 

And this is a talking point I never thought I would be bringing up this year, but now I am concerned that our #1 pass catcher is not at the caliber of other team's #1s. The Diggs that we've seen in the past month especially has not been even a top 10 WR.

 

If that trend with Diggs continues, we're running an offense with a slightly above average OL, where our best skill player is a RB, our best WR is somewhere outside the top 10, our 2nd best pass catcher is a rookie TE, and everyone else is a JAG or worse. That does not come close to fitting the profile of a championship offense.

 

There is still a path to us winning the Super Bowl. Allen plays elite football the rest of the way, the defense plays like a top 5 defense, the run game continues to look like a top 5 run offense, Bass gets over whatever his issue has been this year, and we get a few bounces of the ball to go our way. But it's frustrating that the path isn't easier than that solely because Brandon Beane failed to bring in a substantial upgrade to our skill position personnel.

we don't really prioritize pass catchers and it shows up wrt elite tools, that's why you watch our wideouts and think lack of contested catch ability...it's the kind of athleticism that typically goes in early rounds

 

i'm struggling to think of another team rn that doesn't have at least one first round pick in their wr room and we dont even have a second lol

[HappyDays]

19 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Our offensive line is not slightly above average...by many metrics it is one of the best in the NFL. Allen is the least sacked QB in the NFL.  Cook is averaging over 5 YPC, not much you can complain about with them really.

 

 

 

 

 

That first chart is saying the Eagles and Lions have worse pass protection than the Dolphins? That is so far removed from reality it makes me feel justified to ignore the entire thing. OL is really hard to grade in any kind of objective way. But I've watched enough football this year to know the Eagles and Lions are the two elite OLs in the league.

 

To be fair I know that I said "slightly above average" but I will acknowledge I meant that in a subjective sense, not in an objective sense that contextualizes it with the rest of the league. Truth be told the line between good and bad OLs has been muddied quite a bit this year. The Lions and Eagles for my money are the only dominant OLs. Giants, Panthers, and Jets OLs are so bad they make the offense dysfunctional. Everyone else for the most part is kind of in this jumbled up blur of mediocrity. You can draw a few lines between teams here and there but nothing substantial. I would classify most OLs this year as "average to slightly above average" in the sense that most are not particularly good or bad.

 

I think OL in general has been somewhat of a red herring on this board in recent years. It isn't the thing that needs to be elite to make a championship run. The Bengals went to the Super Bowl with a bad OL. The Dolphins this year have a bad OL and are still the most explosive offense in the league. The 49ers have the best LT in football but mediocrity the rest of the way down and still have the best overall offense in the league. You really just need a "good enough" OL to make a championship run, and the Bills certainly have that, but more importantly you also need other pieces around the QB that the Bills very clearly do not have.

[Sherlock Holmes]

22 hours ago, finn said:

One WR away from the best offense in the league, since Allen > Purdy.

 

Might still be good enough to go all the way, though. 

Purdy and Josh gonna be battling for MVP and Lombardis for the next two decades

Edited December 21, 2023 by Sherlock Holmes

[Big Turk]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That first chart is saying the Eagles and Lions have worse pass protection than the Dolphins? That is so far removed from reality it makes me feel justified to ignore the entire thing. OL is really hard to grade in any kind of objective way. But I've watched enough football this year to know the Eagles and Lions are the two elite OLs in the league.

 

To be fair I know that I said "slightly above average" but I will acknowledge I meant that in a subjective sense, not in an objective sense that contextualizes it with the rest of the league. Truth be told the line between good and bad OLs has been muddied quite a bit this year. The Lions and Eagles for my money are the only dominant OLs. Giants, Panthers, and Jets OLs are so bad they make the offense dysfunctional. Everyone else for the most part is kind of in this jumbled up blur of mediocrity. You can draw a few lines between teams here and there but nothing substantial. I would classify most OLs this year as "average to slightly above average" in the sense that most are not particularly good or bad.

 

I think OL in general has been somewhat of a red herring on this board in recent years. It isn't the thing that needs to be elite to make a championship run. The Bengals went to the Super Bowl with a bad OL. The Dolphins this year have a bad OL and are still the most explosive offense in the league. The 49ers have the best LT in football but mediocrity the rest of the way down and still have the best overall offense in the league. You really just need a "good enough" OL to make a championship run, and the Bills certainly have that, but more importantly you also need other pieces around the QB that the Bills very clearly do not have.

 

They have the great equalizer in Allen. On any given day Allen can be so good that it doesn't matter what the other team does, they cannot win.  My hope is that one day that will happen in a Super Bowl game and any of the other flaws won't matter for one day.

 

6 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Purdy and Josh gonna be battling for MVP and Lombardis for the next two decades

 

Purdy will flame out as soon as he doesn't have an all-world supporting cast around him. I mean look at what happened when he simply was missing his LT and Deebo this year.  He looked terrible.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Big Turk

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think OL in general has been somewhat of a red herring on this board in recent years. It isn't the thing that needs to be elite to make a championship run. The Bengals went to the Super Bowl with a bad OL. The Dolphins this year have a bad OL and are still the most explosive offense in the league. The 49ers have the best LT in football but mediocrity the rest of the way down and still have the best overall offense in the league. You really just need a "good enough" OL to make a championship run, and the Bills certainly have that, but more importantly you also need other pieces around the QB that the Bills very clearly do not have.

 

While I agree - you don't need a dominant OL, I don't agree it has been a red herring the past two years. The Bills have had bottom feeding offensive lines in 2021 and 2022. The guard play has been positively disgusting. They didn't in 2020 and they haven't this year. Both of those lines were probably a bit above average. I am absolutely fine with that. But the line has been a major issue the last two years. Our record in one score games we lost where our OFFENSE had the ball last in the past 2 seasons was atrocious (unlike this year where it has been the D at the end that has failed more than it has succeeded) and almost all those potential gane winning drives that failed had a major offensive line breakdown that got us behind the sticks. 

 

That isn't to say I don't agree with you on the resource allocation at receiver. I do. I have been on receiver in round 1 the last two years. I likely will be again although tok early for me to really be on this class it looks a decent one. Gabe Davis has been a really good draft pick. His production from a 4th rounder is way above 4th round average. But you can't keep hoping to strike bronze (let alone gold or silver) with Davis, Shakir and Shorter. Eventually you gotta take a shot at a guy early. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by GunnerBill

[HappyDays]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

While I agree - you don't need a dominant OL, I don't agree it has been a red herring the past two years. The Bills have had bottom feeding offensive lines in 2021 and 2022. The guard play has been positively disgusting. They didn't in 2020 and they haven't this year. Both of those lines were probably a bit above average. I am absolutely fine with that. But the line has been a major issue the last two years. Our record in one score games we lost where our OFFENSE had the ball last in the past 2 seasons was atrocious (unlike this year where it has been the D at the end that has failed more than it has succeeded) and almost all those potential gane winning drives that failed had a major offensive line breakdown that got us behind the sticks. 

 

That isn't to say I don't agree with you on the resource allocation at receiver. I do. I have been on receiver in round 1 the last two years. I likely will be again although tok early for me to really be on this class it looks a decent one. Gabe Davis has been a really good draft pick. His production from a 4th rounder is way above 4th round average. But you can't keep hoping to strike bronze (let alone gold or silver) with Davis, Shakir and Shorter. Eventually you gotta take a shot at a guy early. 

 

I guess what I mean is that it's easier to hide a below average OL than it is to hide a below average group of weapons. As evidenced by the fact that below average OLs have made it to the Super Bowl in recent years, but below average groups of weapons have not.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

we don't really prioritize pass catchers and it shows up wrt elite tools, that's why you watch our wideouts and think lack of contested catch ability...it's the kind of athleticism that typically goes in early rounds

 

i'm struggling to think of another team rn that doesn't have at least one first round pick in their wr room and we dont even have a second lol

It’s actually insane to me. 
 

I was advocating for the Steelers model of day 2 picks every other year for WR’s for a stable rotation of cheap, decent pass catchers with upside probably 3 years ago. 
 

Even if they took one in the first round every 2-3 years, that would be fine.

 

Instead, they’ve done neither. That has been the biggest flaw of this regime in the Josh Allen era BY FAR.