Offensive Supporting Cast

[GoBills808]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Ahhh, the crusade continues!

 

if you asked every NfL to list their top 10 WRs, Diggs would be on everyone’s list.  

 

If you asked every analyst who their top 10 teams in the nfl were 5 weeks ago- not one would list Buffalo.  FF 5 weeks- we’re out everyones top 5.

 

We were always a top 5 team- we were just playing like 💩 suffering from a bad OC mixed with bad luck.  Diggs is in the midst of just that.  Doesn’t mean he’s not a top 10 WR.  He is.  

That's what I mean about QB dependent tho

 

Before he got to Buffalo nobody had Diggs as a top5 wideout

[GunnerBill]

52 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Vikings obviously better

Cowboys

Bengals

Rams

Chargers

All likely better or close

Bills have midtier talent on offense

 

The Chargers are the ones I dispute here. I think you overrate their weapons. They do not separate. The rest of those teams I agree with.

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There was some narrative early in the season that Allen was surrounded by bums. Josh is our best player and a top 3 qb but can we finally argee that there is legit good talent on this offense? 
 

- one of the most improved (and honestly one of the best o lines in the nfl)

- a top 5 receiver 

- a top 5 rb who is breaking out big time 

- a 1st round TE who is emerging as one of the best receiving TEs in the nfl 

 

 

obviously, Allen is the star but can we finally admit this is a really good group around him? How many groups are better? SF, Philly, Miami, and maybe Detroit? 

This is almost as bad as the post I saw yesterday , proclaiming La Porta the best TE in the league and OROY. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There was some narrative early in the season that Allen was surrounded by bums. Josh is our best player and a top 3 qb but can we finally argee that there is legit good talent on this offense? 
 

- one of the most improved (and honestly one of the best o lines in the nfl)

- a top 5 receiver 

- a top 5 rb who is breaking out big time 

- a 1st round TE who is emerging as one of the best receiving TEs in the nfl 

 

 

obviously, Allen is the star but can we finally admit this is a really good group around him? How many groups are better? SF, Philly, Miami, and maybe Detroit? 

 

 

Agree with the first 2.     

 

Rest.......I'd say nah.

 

- Cook is a fine player but putting up volume numbers in great part due to the lack of other receiving weapons,  teams overplaying Diggs because of that,  and the dual threat QB next to him.   He's still just a RB though.    He's not McCaffrey(especially not in the catch efficiency department) but even with CMC Deebo is BY FAR the most important weapon for that 49ers team.   They routinely pumped out huge RB per play production in SF before CMC arrived.   But they lose games when Deebo is not on the field because he gets 12 yards per touch versus McCaffrey who gets just 6 yards per touch.   

 

- Kincaid could become one of the best TE's in the NFL but he definitely hasn't been that this season.   James Cook might have been closer to being one of the best RB's in the NFL last year than Kincaid is among TE's.   Cook averaged 5.7 yards per carry in 2022.    Kincaid is 15th in receiving yards but his 8.1 yards per reception is horrible and now he's got a sprained thumb and dropped both of his targets last game.  

 

Allen does not have a good skill unit around him this season.     

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There was some narrative early in the season that Allen was surrounded by bums. Josh is our best player and a top 3 qb but can we finally argee that there is legit good talent on this offense? 
 

- one of the most improved (and honestly one of the best o lines in the nfl)

- a top 5 receiver 

- a top 5 rb who is breaking out big time 

- a 1st round TE who is emerging as one of the best receiving TEs in the nfl 

 

 

obviously, Allen is the star but can we finally admit this is a really good group around him? How many groups are better? SF, Philly, Miami, and maybe Detroit? 

 

Allen's supporting cast was not characterized as "bums" which is just a hyperbolic statement.   The comparison was to teams like CIN, KC, and PHI he didn't have the skilled talent at WR/TE.  

 

I wouldn't characterize Kincaid as "one of the best receiving TE's in the NFL."  He's averaging 8 yards per catch, good for 112th in the league among WR and TE.  As advertised, his hands are excellent but he's not top tier yet.  

 

Also shouldn't go unsaid that the OL playing well is a major factor, but skilled receivers are not all that.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There was some narrative early in the season that Allen was surrounded by bums. Josh is our best player and a top 3 qb but can we finally argee that there is legit good talent on this offense? 
 

- one of the most improved (and honestly one of the best o lines in the nfl)

- a top 5 receiver 

- a top 5 rb who is breaking out big time 

- a 1st round TE who is emerging as one of the best receiving TEs in the nfl 

 

 

obviously, Allen is the star but can we finally admit this is a really good group around him? How many groups are better? SF, Philly, Miami, and maybe Detroit? 

Actually that was not the narrative.  The narrative was that among the top teams contending for a Super Bowl the Bills were deficient in their O line and play makers.  That beyond Diggs the Bills had a lot of average to below average talent in the offensive skill positions.  No one is calling an "average" NFL player a bum.  But hen you compare the Bills WR group to say Miami's, or the Eagles, or Dallas or the 49's or the Bengals you get an idea of what the narrative was.

 

The other part of the narrative was that the Bills focused a disproportionate amount of their FA resources and draft capitol over the last 5 years trying to build an elite D.  This has led to what many of us think is a talent deficiency on the offensive side of the ball when COMPARED to other top playoff contenders.

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

50 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Ahhh, the crusade continues!

 

if you asked every NfL to list their top 10 WRs, Diggs would be on everyone’s list.  

 

If you asked every analyst who their top 10 teams in the nfl were 5 weeks ago- not one would list Buffalo.  FF 5 weeks- we’re out everyones top 5.

 

We were always a top 5 team- we were just playing like 💩 suffering from a bad OC mixed with bad luck.  Diggs is in the midst of just that.  Doesn’t mean he’s not a top 10 WR.  He is.  

 

facts don't need a crusade 

 

the OP said top 5.  he's not, despite a hot stretch months ago.  2022, 2020--obviously.  he has been a mediocre WR1 not for a few weeks, but since the second week of October.  so no one outside of this place would put him top 5.  top 10?  maybe. 

[Fleezoid]

Kinda nice to be talking about a good O-Line for a change. We'll be needing Center soon. I hope they can get a quintessential Center and not a repurposed Guard. 

[Charles Romes]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

obviously, Allen is the star but can we finally admit this is a really good group around him? How many groups are better? SF, Philly, Miami, and maybe Detroit? 

 
Cincy and Minnesota, Seattle, we are like 7-10ish range. Diggs may have realistically fallen to the 8-15 range. That’s not a knock on him. It’s just that he’s 30 now, and that’s what happens.  

[gonzo1105]

The Bills need another high end WR. This is two fold. They need a guy to ease the pressure off of Josh and they need an eventual replacement for Diggs. To me this is by far the tear to do it with FA and the draft 

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Vikings obviously better

Cowboys

Bengals

Rams

Chargers

All likely better or close

Bills have midtier talent on offense

Dolphins/49ers also way better

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There was some narrative early in the season that Allen was surrounded by bums. Josh is our best player and a top 3 qb but can we finally argee that there is legit good talent on this offense? 
 

- one of the most improved (and honestly one of the best o lines in the nfl)

- a top 5 receiver 

- a top 5 rb who is breaking out big time 

- a 1st round TE who is emerging as one of the best receiving TEs in the nfl 

 

 

obviously, Allen is the star but can we finally admit this is a really good group around him? How many groups are better? SF, Philly, Miami, and maybe Detroit? 

I think the talent is starting to get there.  For almost two years Chris Simms has been saying “someone else is allowed to step up besides Josh Allen and Stefan Diggs”

 

We’ve seen that happen ever since Joe Brady took over - especially last week against Dallas.  For the first time ever, the best player on the Bills offense was not named Allen or Diggs.  
 

I don’t think Kincaid is there yet but we’ve seen flashes and Knox is an excellent TE2 though I don’t think he’ll be around long term w/ his contract and Kincaid.  

The spot that needs to be improved is WR.  Diggs is 30 and we might be seeing the beginning of some signs of decline.  I think Shakir has potential as a WR3 but lacks the overall consistency.  Gabe Davis… great blocker but we need more of a threat at WR2.  
 

OL is pretty good and should return next season in tact though at some point, a Mitch Morse replacement will be needed.  
 

So they are getting there - I’d still like to see a WR taken in R1 this year 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

if you asked every NfL to list their top 10 WRs, Diggs would be on everyone’s list.  

 

Not this year though.

 

Hill

Brown

Jefferson

Chase

Cooper

Adams

Wilson

Samuel

 

Those are pretty clearly the most dominant WRs in the league right now, with varying degrees of QB play obviously.

 

Then you have guys in the next tier like Lamb, Evans, Aiyuk. Diggs is somewhere in that tier right now, for my money closer to the bottom than the top. He just hasn't been anywhere close to his dominant self in recent weeks.

 

So I really don't agree at all that we have a top 10 group of weapons. Middle of the pack IMO. Davis has been invisible in like half of our games this year. Kincaid is a rookie, any hopes that he would immediately take over as our #2 pass catcher have not come to fruition.

 

Honestly Cook might be our best skill player right now. If he can play as well as he did against the Cowboys for the rest of the season and through the playoffs, maybe we can be the first team in a long time to make it to the Super Bowl without a legitimate #2 pass catcher. That weakness certainly lowers the margin of error though.

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

they don't have a top 10 WR right now...

 

I mean really, a top 10 wideout is still a very good receiver.  There's so much talent at the position.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

That's what I mean about QB dependent tho

 

Before he got to Buffalo nobody had Diggs as a top5 wideout

The position has always been somewhat QB dependent no?  Are Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne in the HoF if the Bills had drafted them instead of the colts?  Is Jerry rice the greatest WR ever if he was drafted by the cardinals?  
 

Diggs had two things in the way while he was in Minny- having another top WR in theilen and had bridgewater, Bradford and keenum his first 3 years.  Cousins for his next two.  Yet our GN thought he was worth multiple draft picks.  Beane thought he was top 10.  

 

I didn’t think he was a top 5 WR in minny but I thought he was top 10.  What he’s shown his first 3.5 years in Buffalo makes me believe he’s top 5.  Def top 10.  He’s hit a rough patch.  It happens.  Not sure why anyone would doubt him based on a rough patch

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not this year though.

 

Hill

Brown

Jefferson

Chase

Cooper

Adams

Wilson

Samuel

 

Those are pretty clearly the most dominant WRs in the league right now, with varying degrees of QB play obviously.

 

Then you have guys in the next tier like Lamb, Evans, Aiyuk. Diggs is somewhere in that tier right now, for my money closer to the bottom than the top. He just hasn't been anywhere close to his dominant self in recent weeks.

 

So I really don't agree at all that we have a top 10 group of weapons. Middle of the pack IMO. Davis has been invisible in like half of our games this year. Kincaid is a rookie, any hopes that he would immediately take over as our #2 pass catcher have not come to fruition.

 

Honestly Cook might be our best skill player right now. If he can play as well as he did against the Cowboys for the rest of the season and through the playoffs, maybe we can be the first team in a long time to make it to the Super Bowl without a legitimate #2 pass catcher. That weakness certainly lowers the margin of error though.

I stand by my comment that he’d be voted top 10 WR by just about every nfl

player. If not all.  
 

You listed 8 and some might still regard Diggs as better than Deebo….. a RB playing WR in a freaky system.  

You’d take deebo over Diggs? 🤣 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

they don't have a top 10 WR right now...

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

facts don't need a crusade 

 

the OP said top 5.  he's not, despite a hot stretch months ago.  2022, 2020--obviously.  he has been a mediocre WR1 not for a few weeks, but since the second week of October.  so no one outside of this place would put him top 5.  top 10?  maybe. 

Yeah…. But YOU said he’s not even top 10.  So yeah, crusade on!

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You’d take deebo over Diggs?

 

This season, for sure. I thought Diggs was easily a top 5 WR from 2020-2022. This year something has been off, especially lately. He has never been great at contested catches and now he is having trouble separating consistently too. It isn't just because he's bracketed. He wasn't bracketed at all against KC and did nothing 1v1 against Sneed. Drops have suddenly become a HUGE problem for him. There's been at least one 3rd down conversion in each of the last three games that he flat out dropped... Other than his former reputation, what evidence is there that he's performing like a top 10 WR right now let alone top 5?

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

That's what I mean about QB dependent tho

 

Before he got to Buffalo nobody had Diggs as a top5 wideout

 

I did and argued as much here. When the consensus was he was the 2nd best receiver on the Vikings. Which was hilariously wrong.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This season, for sure. I thought Diggs was easily a top 5 WR from 2020-2022. This year something has been off, especially lately. He has never been great at contested catches and now he is having trouble separating consistently too. It isn't just because he's bracketed. He wasn't bracketed at all against KC and did nothing 1v1 against Sneed. Drops have suddenly become a HUGE problem for him. There's been at least one 3rd down conversion in each of the last three games that he flat out dropped... Other than his former reputation, what evidence is there that he's performing like a top 10 WR right now let alone top 5?

 

I don't think he has played like a top 5 guy this year. He is top 10 in receptions and top 5 in touchdowns though, and just outside that in yards (12th) on what has been at times a stuttering offense. But there have been more drops (highest drop rate of his time as a Bill) and while I think the "not separating" thing is a bit overblown and isn't borne out when I look at the film I do think there is just a hint that some of the suddenness of his acceleration has dipped. But he is still a master of his craft as a route runner and he was always a guy who relied on his route running skill over his speed and suddenness.

 

If we were going a rebuild mode everything would be on the table for me with Stef. But I think that now feels really unlikely, even if they miss the playoffs at 10-7 I think almost no chance Pegula makes a change in thos circumstances. So I think you keep Stef for 2024 and you work a bit of the contract and kick the can a bit and you have to try and draft a guy who by this time next year we are talking about as potentially our next #1 receiver going into 2025.

[Mr. WEO]

20 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

Yeah…. But YOU said he’s not even top 10.  So yeah, crusade on!

this year he  isn’t.  And that’s ok.  You know this.   It’s down year for him, I believe you’ve pointed that out