Staley Canned

[Low Positive]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

he was a fraud from the get go. I was beating that drum for years. He was totally unqualified to be a HC. His claim to fame was basically stealing Fangio’s defense and taking credit for it, but running an inferior version. 
 

Then he became some bizarre media darling, like you said. I remember when Gruden was fired and he made some comments about it, and was hailed a genius. Or when he basically made the simple comment about how running is important to keep defenses honest, and he was hailed a genius.

 

his career trajectory was one where he needed another 3-4 years as a defensive coach. He had no business being hired.  

Zac Taylor had even less experience when the Bengals hired him and that’s working out.

[Beck Water]

When I scan the topics on the board, I keep dropping an "N" out of this subject:

 

Staley Caned

 

....which, come to think of it, is not really that far off

[Warcodered]

Just now, Beck Water said:

When I scan the topics on the board, I keep dropping an "N" out of this subject:

 

Staley Caned

 

....which, come to think of it, is not really that far off

Is that how he was run out of the building?

[Beck Water]

 

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

he was a fraud from the get go. I was beating that drum for years. He was totally unqualified to be a HC. His claim to fame was basically stealing Fangio’s defense and taking credit for it, but running an inferior version. 
 

Then he became some bizarre media darling, like you said. I remember when Gruden was fired and he made some comments about it, and was hailed a genius. Or when he basically made the simple comment about how running is important to keep defenses honest, and he was hailed a genius.

 

his career trajectory was one where he needed another 3-4 years as a defensive coach. He had no business being hired.  

 

OK, but here's the thing.  What guys are available for HC positions?  Well, there are retread guys, like Rex Ryan and Andy Reid.  Which is gonna be which?  And then there are Hot Young Innovators, currently working as OCs and DCs or maybe even just assistants - who, like QBs, usually get drafted early.

 

I thought McDaniel was a weird hire for the Dolphins - one year as OC for SF where most think Kyle Shanahan calls the offensive shots, after a few prior years as run game coordinator.  "Seriously, Dolphins?".  OK, so far, he's looking very good.  Got them to them to the playoffs last season, got them leading the division this season (OK, largely because the Bills laid an egg and lost 2-3 games they should really have won, but still).

 

I bring him up because Staley had a very similar IMO level of experience - one year as DC, after several years coaching LB.

 

Then there's Zac Taylor, in his 5th year with the Bengals now.  Not a lot of prior experience there either - 2 years as an assistant with the Rams, previous stint as QB coach in Miami, never even a coordinator.  Couple years of losing, two very good years with a SB loss and an AFCCG appearance, now they're 7-6 which is coincidentally the record we want McDermott thrown to the wolves for.

 

Kevin O'Connell was a relative "old hand" with 3 years of OC experience under his belt before Minnesota tapped him.  13-4 last season, like Taylor 7-6 this season.

 

Maybe you're prescient, but fact is Staley had them 9-8 his first season, 10-7 and playoffs his 2nd season, then the wheels fell off his third.  He did some good things that were thought to be innovative.  Maybe his problem was not hiring a quality DC, IDK.  I agree with the firing, but it really highlights this simple question:

 

=> if you hire a "hot young hand" with minimal experience, how do you pick one that will work out, instead of a dud? (especially since the duds may have good starts)

=> if you hire a retread, what will help him work better this time around?

 

2 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Since McVay there was a run on hiring young thirty something coaches. Many of have worked out, some haven’t, but I think fans, owners, and media started to falsely assume that every hot new coaching candidate would be a smashing success. 

 

Truth.  So how do you sort the "studs" from the "duds"?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that it's not that easy.

[Alphadawg7]

The name "Brandon Staley" has 13 letters in it...so does "LOOOOOOOOOSER"...coincidence?  Probably not.

[Warcodered]

3 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Since McVay there was a run on hiring young thirty something coaches. Many of have worked out, some haven’t, but I think fans, owners, and media started to falsely assume that every hot new coaching candidate would be a smashing success. 

Which coaches are these? There's McVay who got to a Super Bowl lost dinked around a bit went back won and now the team seems fairly mediocre. Then there is........? Seriously the youngest Super Bowl winner in like the last 5 years other than McVay is Doug Pederson and he was 50.

[QCity]

He should have been canned after that timeout in 2022 when his team simply needed a tie to get into the playoffs.

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

This kind of fear prevents the Bills from advancing further. I believe this is the incorrect mindset to have. Often change is needed way before change is made. Case in point the Chargers. I'd argue with confidence McD and the Bills are applicable here. 

 

McD would actually be a great coach for the Chargers. He would instill a winning attitude and culture. The defense would be very solid and they'd likely make multiple playoff appearances. They would unlikely advance far but he would turn around the team and get them over the hump sort of speak. The team would be solid under his guidance. 

 

There are coaching candidates that are creative and innovative. McD has had plenty of time to make a SB appearance with his elite QB. This is just another failed year. How many more can and will this fan base accept?

 

A failed playoff appearance is clearly realistic this year. How much more do we need to see? 

 

Let's stay with McD because he's safe and a great guy. No thanks for this fan. 

 

Get an assertive offensive minded coach. Can you imagine what Peyton would be doing with this team? 

 

I did say fear of getting an overrated hot young offensive coach as a replacement is "one of the reasons" I didn't want McD fired.   Not the only reason.  

 

I think until this year, McD got the best or near-best out of the roster each season.  This is the only year I feel like he's gotten fewer wins than you'd expect based on the roster.   In short, I think he's a good coach.  I think he can win a SB when Beane gets him a better roster.  

 

I think there are only a few coaches who are clearly better than McD.  Unfortunately, they all have jobs.  But if Andy Reid wanted to come to Buffalo anyway, I'd take him.  And Andy had years when he arguably underperformed as well.

 

Cleveland fired Belichick when they moved to Baltimore.  They hired Ted Marchibroda instead who went 16-31 while Belichick went on to win a gaggle of Lombardis - despite being a defensive minded HC.   It seems Modell should have had a little more patience with Bill.  I don't want to make that mistake.  

 

When professionals can't make smart coaching changes, I really don't have much faith in fan recommendations.  I remember a long time ago when a bunch of fans wanted us to hire Leslie Frazier as our head coach and Doug Whaley to be our GM.     

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I did say fear of getting an overrated hot young offensive coach as a replacement is "one of the reasons" I didn't want McD fired.   Not the only reason.  

 

I think until this year, McD got the best or near-best out of the roster each season.  This is the only year I feel like he's gotten fewer wins than you'd expect based on the roster.   In short, I think he's a good coach.  I think he can win a SB when Beane gets him a better roster.  

 

I think there are only a few coaches who are clearly better than McD.  Unfortunately, they all have jobs.  But if Andy Reid wanted to come to Buffalo anyway, I'd take him.  And Andy had years when he arguably underperformed as well.

 

Cleveland fired Belichick when they moved to Baltimore.  They hired Ted Marchibroda instead who went 16-31 while Belichick went on to win a gaggle of Lombardis - despite being a defensive minded HC.   It seems Modell should have had a little more patience with Bill.  I don't want to make that mistake.  

 

When professionals can't make smart coaching changes, I really don't have much faith in fan recommendations.  I remember a long time ago when a bunch of fans wanted us to hire Leslie Frazier as our head coach and Doug Whaley to be our GM.     

I hear what you are saying. Allow me to respond. 

 

Coach McD has mostly failed in his playoff appearances. He's 4-5 in the playoffs. He's without a doubt blown games and been out coached far too much in these big games. There's really no debate here. It's pretty much a pattern that I expect to continue. Believe in what you see. 

 

To use other coaches failures and then subsequent successes as an indicator that McD will succeed doesn't prove anything. There's plenty of examples in the opposite direction.  It has no relevance to McD's future success or lack of. Sure it's possible but it's perhaps more likely the continued failures continue. 

 

Beane deserves some blame as well. However, let's not negate the fact that McD likely has had a lot of input in Beane's decisions. Beane didn't blow 13 seconds or have the team ill prepared to play the biggest home playoff game in decades vs the Bengals. That's on coach McD!!!

 

Fast forward to this year and the team has regressed under McD. The team is in jeopardy of losing the division and not making the playoffs. Who would have imagined this at the start of the season? 

 

Yet, fans want to give this coach more chances. Give him the benefit of the doubt. The window isn't closed but it certainly isn't opening wider. Years are ticking and McD with a franchise QB have largely squandered opportunities to appear in a SB. More of the same is likely coming. Run it back again seems to be the incorrect decision. Not sure how Bills fans can't see a need for change. It's  time to move on from McD. Don't fear the unknown. The team can reach it's ultimate goal with a dynamic innovative coach not named McD. Let's not settle for good because good isn't good enough. McD is good but not good enough. Multiple blown playoff games and his 4-5 record are indicators of his shortcomings. 

 

 

[T master]

21 hours ago, bills6969 said:

https://x.com/chargers/status/1735707955541225938?s=46&t=10Oplb_WrqSrrnmb75e13A

 

Here's to all those Bills Mafia that want to get rid of McD for another coach the chargers could be the Bills if we change coaches & i would much rather have McD and know what we got and have a chance than go with a new coach and be the Chargers .. JMHO - GO BILLS !! 

 

Who knows maybe seeing as a offensive coach is better in a HC ing position than a defensive HC they might go look at Dorcey for a HC ing position .

Edited December 16, 2023 by T master

[NoSaint]

21 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

But he was so young, smart and innovative.  

And leaves with as many rings as our own coach has earned 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

15 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Maybe he'll bring Mac & Cheese Jones-- just to punish him for ruining his legacy in NE.

TBD-TSW members are reminded that references to Mr. Jones are required to carry his duly registered product identification, which is protected by patent, trademark, and copyright law.

 

📯🌟MJ🏈10🌟📯 ©️®️™️

 

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

[stuvian]

They'll always have the treasured memory of the 6 - 0 win vs the Pats.

 

As much as I am tempted to gloat, there is a cautionary tale here about a team getting old. If we don't watch it that could be us. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

13 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

OK, but here's the thing.  What guys are available for HC positions?  Well, there are retread guys, like Rex Ryan and Andy Reid.  Which is gonna be which?  And then there are Hot Young Innovators, currently working as OCs and DCs or maybe even just assistants - who, like QBs, usually get drafted early.

 

I thought McDaniel was a weird hire for the Dolphins - one year as OC for SF where most think Kyle Shanahan calls the offensive shots, after a few prior years as run game coordinator.  "Seriously, Dolphins?".  OK, so far, he's looking very good.  Got them to them to the playoffs last season, got them leading the division this season (OK, largely because the Bills laid an egg and lost 2-3 games they should really have won, but still).

 

I bring him up because Staley had a very similar IMO level of experience - one year as DC, after several years coaching LB.

 

Then there's Zac Taylor, in his 5th year with the Bengals now.  Not a lot of prior experience there either - 2 years as an assistant with the Rams, previous stint as QB coach in Miami, never even a coordinator.  Couple years of losing, two very good years with a SB loss and an AFCCG appearance, now they're 7-6 which is coincidentally the record we want McDermott thrown to the wolves for.

 

Kevin O'Connell was a relative "old hand" with 3 years of OC experience under his belt before Minnesota tapped him.  13-4 last season, like Taylor 7-6 this season.

 

Maybe you're prescient, but fact is Staley had them 9-8 his first season, 10-7 and playoffs his 2nd season, then the wheels fell off his third.  He did some good things that were thought to be innovative.  Maybe his problem was not hiring a quality DC, IDK.  I agree with the firing, but it really highlights this simple question:

 

=> if you hire a "hot young hand" with minimal experience, how do you pick one that will work out, instead of a dud? (especially since the duds may have good starts)

=> if you hire a retread, what will help him work better this time around?

 

 

Truth.  So how do you sort the "studs" from the "duds"?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that it's not that easy.

it would be different if he he had some experience or track record of being innovative in any way, especially on the offensive side. His entire experience was based on learning Fangio’s relatively simple defensive scheme in a relatively short period of time. 
 

I get hiring more of an unproven guy on the offensive side who has been involved in very innovative or explosive schemes. But that wasn’t Staley. 

 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

And leaves with as many rings as our own coach has earned 

I always say that Demeco Ryans, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McDermott and Brandon Staley are all basically the same coaches because they’ve never won a ring as an HC. 

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I always say that Demeco Ryans, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McDermott and Brandon Staley are all basically the same coaches because they’ve never won a ring as an HC. 

I particularly enjoy including a guy not even finished with his first year

 

and we will see if shanahan pulls it off. He’s been there before, and I think he would’ve won last year with literally anyone at qb and he’s a favorite this year 

[Beck Water]

42 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

it would be different if he he had some experience or track record of being innovative in any way, especially on the offensive side. His entire experience was based on learning Fangio’s relatively simple defensive scheme in a relatively short period of time. 
 

I get hiring more of an unproven guy on the offensive side who has been involved in very innovative or explosive schemes. But that wasn’t Staley. 

 

 

OK, so basically, your premise is "don't hire defensive coordinators as head coaches"?  Because defensive assistants are not, as a general rule, going to have experience or a track record of being innovative on the offensive side.

 

As far as Fangio, his relatively simple scheme had some pretty effective defenses, especially with the 49ers and the Bears, and Miami's defense has been pretty effective when it needs to be.  I will say that Fangio's D seems to rely on top D talent, but Staley should have had enough to work with between Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I particularly enjoy including a guy not even finished with his first year

 

and we will see if shanahan pulls it off. He’s been there before, and I think he would’ve won last year with literally anyone at qb and he’s a favorite this year 

Well that’s the kind of counterpoint deserving when you have as blistering of a take as “the coach that choked the third largest playoff comeback ever in his solitary playoff appearance with a franchise QB AND is the worst close game coach in the NFL is the same as our coach because they both didn’t win a Super Bowl”

[NoSaint]

14 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

OK, but here's the thing.  What guys are available for HC positions?  Well, there are retread guys, like Rex Ryan and Andy Reid.  Which is gonna be which?  And then there are Hot Young Innovators, currently working as OCs and DCs or maybe even just assistants - who, like QBs, usually get drafted early.

 

I thought McDaniel was a weird hire for the Dolphins - one year as OC for SF where most think Kyle Shanahan calls the offensive shots, after a few prior years as run game coordinator.  "Seriously, Dolphins?".  OK, so far, he's looking very good.  Got them to them to the playoffs last season, got them leading the division this season (OK, largely because the Bills laid an egg and lost 2-3 games they should really have won, but still).

 

I bring him up because Staley had a very similar IMO level of experience - one year as DC, after several years coaching LB.

 

Then there's Zac Taylor, in his 5th year with the Bengals now.  Not a lot of prior experience there either - 2 years as an assistant with the Rams, previous stint as QB coach in Miami, never even a coordinator.  Couple years of losing, two very good years with a SB loss and an AFCCG appearance, now they're 7-6 which is coincidentally the record we want McDermott thrown to the wolves for.

 

Kevin O'Connell was a relative "old hand" with 3 years of OC experience under his belt before Minnesota tapped him.  13-4 last season, like Taylor 7-6 this season.

 

Maybe you're prescient, but fact is Staley had them 9-8 his first season, 10-7 and playoffs his 2nd season, then the wheels fell off his third.  He did some good things that were thought to be innovative.  Maybe his problem was not hiring a quality DC, IDK.  I agree with the firing, but it really highlights this simple question:

 

=> if you hire a "hot young hand" with minimal experience, how do you pick one that will work out, instead of a dud? (especially since the duds may have good starts)

=> if you hire a retread, what will help him work better this time around?

 

 

Truth.  So how do you sort the "studs" from the "duds"?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that it's not that easy.

to be fair you did pick two coaches that are struggling through qb injuries (and in the vikes case their star player too)… though the Vikings did start slow 

 

but can you imagine this team sans Josh (and Kyle) and without stef, instead of Daquan and Milano?

 

I am curious to see O’Connell if they let cousins walk and he gets a run with a cheap qb 

11 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Well that’s the kind of counterpoint deserving when you have as blistering of a take as “the coach that choked the third largest playoff comeback ever in his solitary playoff appearance with a franchise QB AND is the worst close game coach in the NFL is the same as our coach because they both didn’t win a Super Bowl”

if the bucket is guys that are able to win it, and guys that aren’t…. Is it really worth the nuance of arguing about who didn’t win it the worst? Obviously I think McDermott is better but at some point we are going to need to be Ricky Bobby and not accept less than first. 

[Albany,n.y.]

Keep this in mind the next time you want to replace McDermott with an assistant coach who has never been a head coach, or a former Super Bowl winning head coach:

 

The ONLY successful assistant hired as Bills head coach is McDermott.  All other 1st time coaches have failed the Bills.  

 

No coach has ever won the Super Bowl with more than 1 team.