Bills cornerback Kaiir Elam says he tore ankle ligament in preseason and tried to play through it

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

Um, wouldn’t this mean the Bills/Elam broke NFL rules about reporting injuries?

Elam wasn’t on the injury report with an ankle until late October.

 

I’m skeptical…

 

This Bills regime has always taken a less is more approach to the injury report. And they are far from the only team in the league to do so. @Beck Water and I were talking about the Jerry Hughes wrist ligament example the other day when it was discussed in relation to whether there might be something lingering with TBass. 

 

The definition of "reportable injury" be league rules is one that causes a player to miss a game, fail to complete a game or prevents them from practicing fully. That last element is definitely interpreted differently by different teams. 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

21 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

What difference does it make if he is on IR or just a scratch?

 

The roster spot.

[Scott7975]

Just now, Freddie's Dead said:

 

The roster spot.

 

Who did they need to put on the roster?  That takes extra cap space for what?

[Einstein]

44 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

The definition of "reportable injury" be league rules is one that causes a player to miss a game, fail to complete a game or prevents them from practicing fully. That last element is definitely interpreted differently by different teams. 

 

 

This must be how the Bills got around it.

 

Seems like the injury report is practically worthless at this point.

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Who did they need to put on the roster?  That takes extra cap space for what?

 

Dave Mason time.

[Donuts and Doritos]

8 hours ago, Simon said:

Did anybody say it's healed? I don't have the BN.

 

He's back practicing, opened his 21 day window. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Who did they need to put on the roster?  That takes extra cap space for what?

Not sure but they added Linval Joseph right around the same time if I recall. Also Douglas was added to the roster. 

[BuffaloRebound]

8 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

He’s worth more than “anything the Bills can get” why would you trade him when he’s at his absolute lowest value? He’s on a rookie contract, there’s no reason to trade him in the off-season for nothing, keep him, see if he has something, and then if you need to move on in training camp there is always an injury and teams are looking for guys-you’ll have more value then 

Because Bills clearly didn’t trust in him before the injury and now a sprained ankle effectively cost him a whole season.  Cutting him costs $8m in dead money.  Trading him for anything saves $5m in cap over next 2 years.  Give that money to Jackson or a safety. The trade for Douglas sealed his fate.  He ain’t beating out Douglas or Benford next year.  

[strive_for_five_guy]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Because Bills clearly didn’t trust in him before the injury and now a sprained ankle effectively cost him a whole season.  Cutting him costs $8m in dead money.  Trading him for anything saves $5m in cap over next 2 years.  Give that money to Jackson or a safety. The trade for Douglas sealed his fate.  He ain’t beating out Douglas or Benford next year.  

They might need/want to move either Douglas or Benford to safety, given potential departures of Hyde and Poyer.  If Elam can step up to be a starting level CB too, that would certainly help if the DB situation.

[aristocrat]

if he is back to last seasons form we look good down the stretch just wish he'd be available for this weekends game. 

[BBFL]

12 hours ago, NoSaint said:

I just don’t get why he’d wait so long to tell the story 

He broke ligaments in his hand and tried to write through it…

50 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

They might need/want to move either Douglas or Benford to safety, given potential departures of Hyde and Poyer.  If Elam can step up to be a starting level CB too, that would certainly help if the DB situation.

 
What’s going on with Rapp? I know some aren’t fond of him but he’s had some decent play at times. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

4 minutes ago, BBFL said:

He broke ligaments in his hand and tried to write through it…

 
What’s going on with Rapp? I know some aren’t fond of him but he’s had some decent play at times. 

Rapp’s on a one year deal.  His play and wreckless abandonment scare me more than anything.  I’d rather find someone else in FA or the draft before bring him back.

[BBFL]

1 minute ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Rapp’s on a one year deal.  His play and wreckless abandonment scare me more than anything.  I’d rather find someone else in FA or the draft before bring him back.

This year though? Amos is about the only option as a FA right now. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

20 minutes ago, BBFL said:

This year though? Amos is about the only option as a FA right now. 

Sorry, I was looking ahead to next season on this question.  I think you gotta play things out with the guys you have at this point, including Rapp.  Next year is where their secondary needs an overhaul, in my opinion.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Because Bills clearly didn’t trust in him before the injury and now a sprained ankle effectively cost him a whole season.  Cutting him costs $8m in dead money.  Trading him for anything saves $5m in cap over next 2 years.  Give that money to Jackson or a safety. The trade for Douglas sealed his fate.  He ain’t beating out Douglas or Benford next year.  

Weird. Up until very late in camp Elam was running with the 1s quite frequently until Benford suddenly passed him on the depth chart. Many here were curious as to why and if Elam was slowed by a torn ankle ligament (not the same as a "sprain") that would explain what happened there. Not a trust issue. 

 

The Douglas trade has no bearing on Elam's future. It may have more to do with Tre White's. Benford may or may not be a CB next year. Then there's the whole issue of injury. Having too many CBs is a good problem to have. 

 

As far as beating Douglas or Benford next year...never say never. I seem to remember a LOT of people laughing at the notion that Bernard could even compete for the MLB job. 

[boater]

14 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

This isn't pretty: players target their opponents injuries. 

For that reason, players who are dinged up don't want to show on the injury report unless they miss enough practice that the league requires it of them.  Players who are actually injured don't want to disclose specifics of their injuries.

 

Plus, all that aside, some players like to preserve their medical privacy.

 

I wonder if it originally wasn't diagnosed as torn, or if it was only slightly torn but then tore worse.

The NFL could go the NHL route:

 

"He has an upper body injury"

"He has a lower body injury"

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

20 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Weird. Up until very late in camp Elam was running with the 1s quite frequently until Benford suddenly passed him on the depth chart. Many here were curious as to why and if Elam was slowed by a torn ankle ligament (not the same as a "sprain") that would explain what happened there. Not a trust issue. 

 

The Douglas trade has no bearing on Elam's future. It may have more to do with Tre White's. Benford may or may not be a CB next year. Then there's the whole issue of injury. Having too many CBs is a good problem to have. 

 

As far as beating Douglas or Benford next year...never say never. I seem to remember a LOT of people laughing at the notion that Bernard could even compete for the MLB job. 

 

I'd love to see Elam come back and start (also not holding my breath at this point) - i'm also not trading him for... essentially nothing? 

The available safeties aren't... all-pros?  But I do think McBeane have a type of guy they like for and found with Poyer and Hyde.  There will be a few guys who get paid a lot from this group, and usually the next tier where we'd be looking can be where you find some decent value.  I hope we get 2 of them honestly, so that you can enter the draft and not be pigeon holed at the position.  Stay away from "you've heard of them" veterans, because they're usually too old for the term they want *COUGH* VON MILLER *COUGH*.  Someone like Chinn maybe, or Jones from Miami, even dugger who i know had some pre-draft interest.  Whoever you think would excel in this defense.  

[BuffaloRebound]

23 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Weird. Up until very late in camp Elam was running with the 1s quite frequently until Benford suddenly passed him on the depth chart. Many here were curious as to why and if Elam was slowed by a torn ankle ligament (not the same as a "sprain") that would explain what happened there. Not a trust issue. 

 

The Douglas trade has no bearing on Elam's future. It may have more to do with Tre White's. Benford may or may not be a CB next year. Then there's the whole issue of injury. Having too many CBs is a good problem to have. 

 

As far as beating Douglas or Benford next year...never say never. I seem to remember a LOT of people laughing at the notion that Bernard could even compete for the MLB job. 

Benford has consistently been ahead of Elam since they were drafted.  And Bernard got his opportunity and ran with it.  Plus as a 3rd rounder he’s basically a vet minimum guy instead of a $3-4m cap hit per year that Elam as a 1st rounder is.  Bills had to spend a 3rd rounder on Douglas to shore up the CB position and now Elam’s offering up excuses to the media that border on throwing his employer under the bus.  Most signs point to this guy being a bust.  Better to trade him for a 4th or 5th rounder and use that $3m elsewhere.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I'd love to see Elam come back and start (also not holding my breath at this point) - i'm also not trading him for... essentially nothing? 

The available safeties aren't... all-pros?  But I do think McBeane have a type of guy they like for and found with Poyer and Hyde.  There will be a few guys who get paid a lot from this group, and usually the next tier where we'd be looking can be where you find some decent value.  I hope we get 2 of them honestly, so that you can enter the draft and not be pigeon holed at the position.  Stay away from "you've heard of them" veterans, because they're usually too old for the term they want *COUGH* VON MILLER *COUGH*.  Someone like Chinn maybe, or Jones from Miami, even dugger who i know had some pre-draft interest.  Whoever you think would excel in this defense.  

Funny, I just mentioned Duggar in another post. He is EXACTLY who I see Beane targeting if he hits FA. He would be an excellent fit on this defense. The other Safety I would like if he's there would be Winfield, but I think he'll be too expensive. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Benford has consistently been ahead of Elam since they were drafted.  And Bernard got his opportunity and ran with it.  Plus as a 3rd rounder he’s basically a vet minimum guy instead of a $3-4m cap hit per year that Elam as a 1st rounder is.  Bills had to spend a 3rd rounder on Douglas to shore up the CB position and now Elam’s offering up excuses to the media that border on throwing his employer under the bus.  Most signs point to this guy being a bust.  Better to trade him for a 4th or 5th rounder and use that $3m elsewhere.  

 Benford was clearly ahead of him...last season. You can go back and look at all the camp notes and see that Elam was clearly running ahead in the battle this season. 

 

And the Bills didn't "spend a 3rd rounder". They slide a 3rd for a 5th and this was likely more due to the White injury. 

 

You seem to think Elam is what? Lying? Or that if he's telling the truth having torn ligament in your ankle would have a down effect on a CB?