The DB Dilemma

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Our DB room is way too fascinating for me to save this thread for the summer time. Do we have a position group with as many offseason storylines as our Defensive backs?

 

Micah Hyde will be 33 in a few weeks and is a free agent this summer. Father Time has started to catch up to him, and the team simply cannot have this starting safety duo back again next year. I have so much love and respect for Hyde (and Poyer), but I think their time is done barring a late season P-Squad signing for depth. 
 

Jordan Poyer is in the same boat. He is under contract for 2024, but a release saves the team 5m during an offseason where they are pretty far in the hole. He, like Hyde, is relying off instinct and intelligence right now over athletic ability. Neither is done athletically, but they’ve lost some of their juice. The team could hang on to Poyer, he’s a defensive Swiss Army knife and I like him in this weird “other nickel” roll he’s been doing with Taron Johnson and Nard-dog.  I wouldn’t hate seeing him as the primary backup for both FS and SS. Behind who, you say? 
 

Christian Benford, right now as a second year former 6th round pick, is a solid CB. That is a huge win. He isn’t spectacular, he is dependable though. There are plenty of games this year where he only has 0-3 targets. There is a very good shot he stays the teams #2 CB, but imagine for a moment what he looks like at SS? 6’1’’ 205, sound tackler (hasn’t missed a single tackle in 2023) and sound in zone coverage. I don’t know if the Bills create a hole to fill a hole, but CB lining up at CB may depend on someone else.

 

Kaiir Elam wasn’t traded, I think that’s worth mentioning. I don’t think the Bills will give up on the kid without trying everything first. I believe he competes for the #2 CB role again, but given the log jam at CB and the depletion at Safety, I think there is a shot he, at minimum, gets a mention at FS. Elite athlete and has ball skills, FS could be a good home for him if Benford stays at CB2. He has a narrative for being a poor tackler, but the numbers don’t support it. Outside his first month in the NFL, his missed tackle rate is actually pretty low. I’ll admit, my X’s and O’s knowledge is limited and there is wayyyy more that goes into a CB-FS transition than ball skills and athleticism, but it’s an interesting conversation nonetheless. 
 

Taron Johnson is basically a mini-LB and Dane Jackson is fine as a primary perimeter CB backup. If it’s not broke don’t fix it. If Elam and Benford both stay at CB, maybe the team experiment with Jackson at Safety but I don’t think he is consistent enough week in and week out to hold down a new position full time. I will say, he’s got the intensity for it. 
 

I’m not sure that they view Damar Hamlin as an every down starter at SS, seeing he’s been inactive every game. 
 

Tre White is the ultimate wildcard. He’s still in his prime age wise, he will be 29 in January. His injuries are well noted, I have no idea when we may see him return. He was looking pretty good before he got hurt, there is no question a healthy Tre White is our CB1. Releasing Tre saves 6m, but I’d be willing to bet he would re-work his deal to stay on the team. There are some players that you don’t bet against when it comes to overcoming injuries, Take Away Tre is one of them. Could Tre move to Safety? There is a difference between being a poor tackler and being an unwilling one. 
 

What are your thoughts? Do we bring back Hyde/Poyer? Do we keep the log jam at CB? Where would Christian Benford be utilized best? Will Tre White come back from this injury or is 6 million in cap savings too much to ignore? What would you try with Elam? 
 

🦬

[FireChans]

Hyde/Poyer GTD gone.

 

TJ is questionable.

 

Tre gone.

 

Elam gone.

Edited December 13, 2023 by FireChans

[wppete]

Hyde, Poyer and Tre need to be cut. Give Elam another chance and maybe move him to Sefety. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

We have Douglas for one year because after '24  I think he is going to get pretty big money.

 

If Tre is gone and we have room maybe we pay.

 

I like him a lot.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[MJS]

Safety is going to be a major target in the off season. The hope was for Rapp to prove himself, but he hasn't, so he is not a viable replacement.

 

I was hoping that Hyde would return to form, but he is not the player he was and his continued neck issues are scary. That dude needs to retire.

 

Poyer would be fine for next year if they wanted to keep one of them for one more year of continuity.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

We have Douglas for one year because after '24  I think he is going to get pretty big money.

 

If Tre is gone and we have room maybe we pay.

 

I like him a lot.

 

 

 

 

The more I think about the Douglas trade the more I like it.

 

Saves us from a gigantic hole at CB next year and was a good Tre replacement mid season.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Hyde/Poyer GTD gone.

 

TJ is questionable.

 

Tre gone.

 

Elam gone.

That isn’t outside the realm of possibility come next September. 

3 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

We have Douglas for one year because after '24  I think he is going to get pretty big money.

 

If Tre is gone and we have room maybe we pay.

 

I like him a lot.

 

 

 

 

I think they add a year to Douglas’ contract to spread the cap hit, and we would have him under contract until he is 32. I’d like to see that move. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

That isn’t outside the realm of possibility come next September. 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

Safety is going to be a major target in the off season. The hope was for Rapp to prove himself, but he hasn't, so he is not a viable replacement.

 

I was hoping that Hyde would return to form, but he is not the player he was and his continued neck issues are scary. That dude needs to retire.

 

Poyer would be fine for next year if they wanted to keep one of them for one more year of continuity.

100% agree. If Benford/Douglas is the starting duo next year, I think we see a focus on athletes at the Safety positions. 
 

I still think Benford is potentially an elite SS. 

[Ballhawk]

Unless Elam becomes a locker room cancer there just isn't a compelling reason to cut him while he's on his rookie contract. I would keep Poyer and cut Hyde, I'm not sure I'd want to absorb both losses to the depth chart in the same year. 

 

Tre is a tough one, cap savings makes case for cutting him but I think management will be watching his recovery closely as this one could go either way.

 

TJ is one of the most valuable DBs to this nickel defense as he let's us play light and get away with it, I would leave him were he is.

[Billzgobowlin]

I don't see Hyde being a liability.   White is a huge question mark and I think he might know the writing is on the wall as far as his playing days being done.   Poyer is ok but last year completely wore him down.  CBs are in good shape with Taron, Benford, Jackson and Douglas.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Hyde/Poyer GTD gone.

 

TJ is questionable.

 

Tre gone.

 

Elam gone.

Goes without saying, Rapp and Hamlin also gone.

[BuffaloBillyG]

What I think I would do:

 

1 CB: First and foremost, I offer Tre the chance to stay with a pay cut. Find a sweet spot that works for team and player and make the offer. If he takes it, super...we have our CB2. If not it's likely time to move on. I move forward with Rasul Douglas as the CB1 for next year. I then bring back Dane Jackson, who would not likely be expensive and is good depth. He would be in a competition for CB3 with a day 2 rookie and/or FA. Elam would mix in here as well. As you said they didn't trade him...but he ended up on IR right after the trade deadline. Wondering if the fear was that he wouldn't pass a physical with another team.

 

Benford would be earmarked to begin the transition to Safety that they have talked about for a while.

 

2. At Safety, Hyde is done. Love the guy, appreciate all he's done. But he's just done. Between his play being a fraction of what it was and the almost constant flow of "stingers" he's had this year I don't think he comes back. Poyer is in the same boat. Very quiet year for him. I would take a look at Rapp the rest of this year and unless he improves I would move on there as well. Start fresh at one safety spot and Benford starts at the other. Cam Lewis is fine depth. Hamlin can compete as well. But again, a draft pick and/or FA would be brought in to compete as well.

 

3. Nickle Back: Taron has been a special player for years at that spot. He's had somewhat of a down year and has a hefty pricetag. But I'm not thinking I move on from him next year. Need some continuity and he's still in the top half of NCBS in the league IMO. 

 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, Ballhawk said:

Unless Elam becomes a locker room cancer there just isn't a compelling reason to cut him while he's on his rookie contract. I would keep Poyer and cut Hyde, I'm not sure I'd want to absorb both losses to the depth chart in the same year. 

 

Tre is a tough one, cap savings makes case for cutting him but I think management will be watching his recovery closely as this one could go either way.

 

TJ is one of the most valuable DBs to this nickel defense as he let's us play light and get away with it, I would leave him were he is.

I definitely agree with Elam, and there is nothing physically preventing him from being a good FS. I would absolutely love to see an elite athlete at that position.

 

Poyer, White, and Johnson could even take pay-cuts to stay. 
 

A rookie safety from rounds 2-4 is pretty likely IMO

[Dan Darragh]

You didn't mention Josh Norman.  Do we play Tennessee next year?

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The more I think about the Douglas trade the more I like it.

 

Saves us from a gigantic hole at CB next year and was a good Tre replacement mid season.

A tremendous trade the second it went down. Trading a 3rd sucks, but getting a 5th back along with our new CB1 for this year and next (and hopefully longer) is genius. I hope we extend him this offseason.  28 years old and has the same birthday as me!  Without that trade, this season is probably already over 

[Rigotz]

I think we have to break this into three position groups:

 

Safety:

Micah Hyde - Free agent, going on 34, nagging injuries and lost a step. Gone.

Jordan Poyer - Cutting saves $5.5M. $2M dead cap. Gone.

Rapp - Free agent - Gone.

Hamlin - Last year of cheap contract. Maaaaaybe practice squad, otherwise gone.

Need 2 new starters and maybe 2 backups.

 

Slot Corner:

1) Taron Johnson - last year of extension, due $12M. I bet we extend him.

Need depth, maybe in late rounds?

 

Outside Corner:

1) Christian Benford - Solid 1/2 and under contract 2 more years. Injury concerns.

2) Rasul Douglas - Rock solid 2 and under contract for next year. No reason to extend yet.

3) Kaiir Elam - This is the upside guy you groom behind 1 and 2.  No reason to cut or trade.

4) Dane Jackson - Meh. Expired contract, would welcome him back on vet min for depth.

5) Tre White - cut or ideally injury settlement. Love you Tre.

Need injury insurance for Benford and ideally a stronger #1 corner. Is Elam that guy?

 

Thus, safety is the big need. Corner depth and hopefully upside can be found in late rounds.

 

To those suggesting we cut Kaiir Elam... why?

 

He has raw talent and is on a relatively cheap contract. It's an $8M dead cap hit to cut him and $3.7M to keep him on the roster next year. Why the hell would you pay double to not have him?

[Billzgobowlin]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What I think I would do:

 

1 CB: First and foremost, I offer Tre the chance to stay with a pay cut. Find a sweet spot that works for team and player and make the offer. If he takes it, super...we have our CB2. If not it's likely time to move on. I move forward with Rasul Douglas as the CB1 for next year. I then bring back Dane Jackson, who would not likely be expensive and is good depth. He would be in a competition for CB3 with a day 2 rookie and/or FA. Elam would mix in here as well. As you said they didn't trade him...but he ended up on IR right after the trade deadline. Wondering if the fear was that he wouldn't pass a physical with another team.

 

Benford would be earmarked to begin the transition to Safety that they have talked about for a while.

 

2. At Safety, Hyde is done. Love the guy, appreciate all he's done. But he's just done. Between his play being a fraction of what it was and the almost constant flow of "stingers" he's had this year I don't think he comes back. Poyer is in the same boat. Very quiet year for him. I would take a look at Rapp the rest of this year and unless he improves I would move on there as well. Start fresh at one safety spot and Benford starts at the other. Cam Lewis is fine depth. Hamlin can compete as well. But again, a draft pick and/or FA would be brought in to compete as well.

 

3. Nickle Back: Taron has been a special player for years at that spot. He's had somewhat of a down year and has a hefty pricetag. But I'm not thinking I move on from him next year. Need some continuity and he's still in the top half of NCBS in the league IMO. 

 

 

Has that been talked about anywhere but on here?

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

I don't see Hyde being a liability.   White is a huge question mark and I think he might know the writing is on the wall as far as his playing days being done.   Poyer is ok but last year completely wore him down.  CBs are in good shape with Taron, Benford, Jackson and Douglas.

I don’t think his play is a liability but I worry that his penchant for neck injuries is.  Might be tough to pay him more than 5M per knowing that.  

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What I think I would do:

 

1 CB: First and foremost, I offer Tre the chance to stay with a pay cut. Find a sweet spot that works for team and player and make the offer. If he takes it, super...we have our CB2. If not it's likely time to move on. I move forward with Rasul Douglas as the CB1 for next year. I then bring back Dane Jackson, who would not likely be expensive and is good depth. He would be in a competition for CB3 with a day 2 rookie and/or FA. Elam would mix in here as well. As you said they didn't trade him...but he ended up on IR right after the trade deadline. Wondering if the fear was that he wouldn't pass a physical with another team.

 

Benford would be earmarked to begin the transition to Safety that they have talked about for a while.

 

2. At Safety, Hyde is done. Love the guy, appreciate all he's done. But he's just done. Between his play being a fraction of what it was and the almost constant flow of "stingers" he's had this year I don't think he comes back. Poyer is in the same boat. Very quiet year for him. I would take a look at Rapp the rest of this year and unless he improves I would move on there as well. Start fresh at one safety spot and Benford starts at the other. Cam Lewis is fine depth. Hamlin can compete as well. But again, a draft pick and/or FA would be brought in to compete as well.

 

3. Nickle Back: Taron has been a special player for years at that spot. He's had somewhat of a down year and has a hefty pricetag. But I'm not thinking I move on from him next year. Need some continuity and he's still in the top half of NCBS in the league IMO. 

 

 

Beford is locked in at CB2, I think. A rehabbed Tre may not even be ready for season start. 
 

You don’t bank on a 29 year old CB coming off his second major injury in a row, and move the starter to a different position. 
 

They will not do this, even if they keep Tre (which they probably won’t)