Did "The McDermott Problem" Backfire? Or Work to Perfection.

[Ray Stonada]

5 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

You mean the record that shows he’s the winningest coach in Bills history.  Sure seems by his record that he’s “blatantly” not a good coach.  

Actually, that’s Marv Levy.

 

Stop factlessly defending McDermott, dude.

[JohnNord]

7 minutes ago, Ray Stonada said:

Actually, that’s Marv Levy.

 

Stop factlessly defending McDermott, dude.

You’re right…he’s not anywhere near the top of the list for win percentage.  My bad

[Ray Stonada]

5 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

You’re right…he’s not anywhere near the top of the list for win percentage.  My bad

Sure, keep changing the goalposts.

 

As I said, if you think McDermott is a good in-game coach, I can’t help you.
 

He is clueless strategically but he has Josh Allen. You too 🤣

[billsfan89]

Just now, Ray Stonada said:

Sure, keep changing the goalposts.

 

As I said, if you think McDermott is a good in-game coach, I can’t help you.
 

He is clueless strategically but he has Josh Allen. You too 🤣

 

In-game I think McD is average but coaching goes well beyond in-game decisions. The Bills have developed a lot of talent other than Josh Allen and also gotten good veteran additions at various levels, McD is a big part of that process of player scouting and development. I am not saying that McD deserves that many more chances should this season end in missing the playoffs or early playoff failure. But rather that you have to look at what he brings wholistically before making a judgement on him as a HC.

[Ray Stonada]

3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

In-game I think McD is average but coaching goes well beyond in-game decisions. The Bills have developed a lot of talent other than Josh Allen and also gotten good veteran additions at various levels, McD is a big part of that process of player scouting and development. I am not saying that McD deserves that many more chances should this season end in missing the playoffs or early playoff failure. But rather that you have to look at what he brings wholistically before making a judgement on him as a HC.

Totally. I only pointed out that he just missed blowing another lead late in the fourth or OT thanks to Toney. He’s good in a lot of areas, too. But without Josh Allen he wouldn’t have close to the record he does. 
 

And if we go on a playoff run (and I think we can) we will have to overcome his poor end-of-game chess. 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Then another shot to not only the local media - perhaps beyond as well.  He accuses them of sitting on negative stories until a coach, GM, or player leave town.   He calls not reporting this information “cowardly” and that NFL coaches and GM’s should expect criticism.  
 

The most interesting quote is here:

 

“There are reporters doing extremely good work — don’t get me wrong. But most, by and large, don’t view something like this worth the hassle or headache. The trend has been obvious in the 13 years I’ve covered the NFL full-time. Given the choice, most would rather not become embroiled in the Twitter/X crossfire for 48 to 72 hours. Threats aren’t necessarily fun. 

 

I actually believe this part. Media absolutely does sit on stuff until after the fact.  Too afraid of getting fired/credentials pulled/burning bridges/whatever. I also believe people like Brown and Tasker and Sal C toe the company line and wont speak ill on Bills things.  So I believe that part to be true too. How many times we hear around here that "they are employed by the Bills so of course they going to spin this" or something.  People can't really go back on that just because of this article.  You can see examples of that trio always change their opinion to be Bills positive based on what the Bills do.. Nah dont fire Dorsey hes great.  Firing Dorsey was the right move.

 

However, the totality of what he wrote in that was pretty much a turn off for me.  Read too much like a political piece or playing a martyr or something to me.  Like a.. they are trying to get you against me but I speak the truth... take my side and I will save you! type of thing.  I don't play that.  Write something I find interesting.  I'll read it, I'll even pay for it, and I will form my own opinions about everything.  I won't pick sides.  I'm not on anyone's side accept my own.  I don't give a crap about anyone's propaganda from either side.  Doesn't change my opinion about the article either way but it may have changed it some about him.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Scott7975

[BillsFan692]

Tyler dunne said everything that needed to be said about Mcdermott. What a lot of players themselves have probably been thinking but couldnt speak it.

 

Was it a hit piece? Yes. Did it go too far in attacking McDs character as a person? Yes. Was it necessary? I think so yes.

 

First of all, it let mcdermott read/hear about his shortcomings -- it WILL make him self reflect. Some of the stuff may have been outlandish but a lot of it was quiet salient.

 

Second, it probably relieved some players from feeling like its been their fault (Josh Allen, McD has low key been sliding a lot of blame his way durring pressers). I know josh allen probably agree with at least half of what he read in the article. But now he doesnt have to say it. Tyler dunne did. McDermott can reflect on it now.

 

Third, it bring team together as they will rally behind their coach -- and hopefully their coach will take SOME THINGS from the article to heart and, in turn, be better for his players moving forward.

 

To be honest i saw it on Sunday. McD was a little more aggressive and had a little more faith in his QB. I hope that trend continues for Sean.

[JTown]

23 hours ago, Man with No Name said:

people who are offended are dumb. people who think it was just a stupid thing to do are correct. 

the military would have a different standard for what they use as teachable events compared to a football team. And honestly, maybe if he wasn't so damn awkward, he could have framed it better and gotten away with using it. He doesn't come off as a very good story teller/ speech maker. 

I'm not a McClappy supporter.  He seemed quite narcissistic until after that article was released.   He now appears to have changed his demeanor in interviews and press conferences.   I have no doubt that he can be a great coach if he refrained from micro managing ever aspect of the team.

[JohnNord]

9 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I actually believe this part. Media absolutely does sit on stuff until after the fact.  Too afraid of getting fired/credentials pulled/burning bridges/whatever. I also believe people like Brown and Tasker and Sal C toe the company line and wont speak ill on Bills things.  So I believe that part to be true too. How many times we hear around here that "they are employed by the Bills so of course they going to spin this" or something.  People can't really go back on that just because of this article.  You can see examples of that trio always change their opinion to be Bills positive based on what the Bills do.. Nah dont fire Dorsey hes great.  Firing Dorsey was the right move.

 

However, the totality of what he wrote in that was pretty much a turn off for me.  Read too much like a political piece or playing a martyr or something to me.  Like a.. they are trying to get you against me but I speak the truth... take my side and I will save you! type of thing.  I don't play that.  Write something I find interesting.  I'll read it, I'll even pay for it, and I will form my own opinions about everything.  I won't pick sides.  I'm not on anyone's side accept my own.  I don't give a crap about anyone's propaganda from either side.  Doesn't change my opinion about the article either way but it may have changed it some about him.

Fair point Scott.  

[JohnNord]

11 minutes ago, JTown said:

I'm not a McClappy supporter.  He seemed quite narcissistic until after that article was released.   He now appears to have changed his demeanor in interviews and press conferences.   I have no doubt that he can be a great coach if he refrained from micro managing ever aspect of the team.

This is a major stereotyping but I do think he has the “wrestler” mentality.  I had several friends like this in HS.  Polite and soft spoken but also very serious and discipline about training and focused on a single goal - wrestling.  Almost militaristic.   Not people who fool around.  
 

And with this training and success came a certain confidence/arrogance that, if they needed to, they could whip anyone’s ass.  In many cases, it was probably true 
 

I think this is where he might come off as narcissistic.  Interesting point from the Dunne article - one player noted he almost needed to be this way with young team - but maybe not with a more veteran one.  

Edited December 13, 2023 by JohnNord

[Wayne Arnold]

14 hours ago, JohnNord said:

“I think you're making a helluva lot of assumptions here.”

 

(Then proceeds to retort with a helluva lot of assumptions himself!”)

 

I went back over my reply and didn't see a single assumption there. Hard to take the rest of your post seriously after that.

 

Although I'll say that the story is not dead in comparison to other sports stories that are written about small market teams throughout the year and will be referenced by people at least through the end of the season whether this season proceeds to go well or poorly.

 

It appears that you may be letting your bias skew your ability to evaluate the subject. A perfect example of what I was referencing when I talked about the emotional defenders who lash out at those who question people in power. That percentage is the most vocal, making it seem as if more people are against the criticism than for it. But that's not necessarily the case. See: vocal minority.

[Man with No Name]

1 hour ago, JTown said:

I'm not a McClappy supporter.  He seemed quite narcissistic until after that article was released.   He now appears to have changed his demeanor in interviews and press conferences.   I have no doubt that he can be a great coach if he refrained from micro managing ever aspect of the team.

I like to think im self-aware, but every once in awhile I have something pointed out about me that I'm completely oblivious to. Maybe this article will work like that for him. 

[section122]

18 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

Plenty of people would be saying exactly that.
 

If you think McDermott is a good in-game coach, I can’t help you.

 

Our record shows blatantly that he is not. 
 

He lucked into Allen.

 

He has the highest win % of any Bills coach.

 

He has the 5th highest win % of all active coaches.

 

He has the 23rd best win % of all time.

 

He was the coach that oversaw the drafting and developing of Allen.

 

Give the man some damn credit sheesh.

 

[JohnNord]

5 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I went back over my reply and didn't see a single assumption there. Hard to take the rest of your post seriously after that.

 

Although I'll say that the story is not dead in comparison to other sports stories that are written about small market teams throughout the year and will be referenced by people at least through the end of the season whether this season proceeds to go well or poorly.

 

It appears that you may be letting your bias skew your ability to evaluate the subject. A perfect example of what I was referencing when I talked about the emotional defenders who lash out at those who question people in power. That percentage is the most vocal, making it seem as if more people are against the criticism than for it. But that's not necessarily the case. See: vocal minority.

Wayne Arnold… do you really want me to go through the post and bold all of your assumptions.  I really don’t want to.  But I will.

 

I can think of one off the top of my head - you said he made a “load of money.”  Assumption 1

1 hour ago, section122 said:

 

He has the highest win % of any Bills coach.

 

He has the 5th highest win % of all active coaches.

 

He has the 23rd best win % of all time.

 

He was the coach that oversaw the drafting and developing of Allen.

 

Give the man some damn credit sheesh.

 

McDermott deserves criticism but at least be fair.  To pretend he’s bad coach who just “lucked into Allen” is just not true.  

[section122]

42 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

 

McDermott deserves criticism but at least be fair.  To pretend he’s bad coach who just “lucked into Allen” is just not true.  

 

I'm with you.

 

To me there is a difference between criticism and the he has to go sentiment that is so prevalent right now.

 

The Bills are in every game, competitively, and very rarely get blown out.  By nature you will lose some of those close ones.  Sometimes I wonder if people would be happier if the Bills did get blown out instead of losing heartbreakers as silly as that sounds.

 

Everyone loves Mike McDaniel.  He just lost a game up 14 with less than 3 mins to go.  People this week are still pining for him.

 

Sean payton lost by 50 earlier this year.  He had an absolute legend im drew brees he went 7-9 with 3 straight years.  People still want him.

 

Ben Johnson is the hot coordinator name.  His offense scored 6 against the ravens, 14 against the chiefs, and 13 last weekend against the bears.  People are begging for him.

 

McDermotts "down year" still has the Bills in the mix for the division title.  Still has a winning record.

 

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills lately!

[Ray Stonada]

6 hours ago, section122 said:

 

He has the highest win % of any Bills coach.

 

He has the 5th highest win % of all active coaches.

 

He has the 23rd best win % of all time.

 

He was the coach that oversaw the drafting and developing of Allen.

 

Give the man some damn credit sheesh.

 

I do. But not for being a good in-game strategist. He’s not.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

On 12/11/2023 at 7:24 PM, Steptide said:

I think dunnes article is crap personally. I think some former players and coaches exaggerated certain situations greatly. Why would a player like Bease or brown wanna come back if McDermott was/is so terrible to play for? McDermott and beane have brought multiple players back over the years. That doesn't happen when players hate the team they play for 

Desiring a final NFL paycheck covers a multitude of things 

[Wayne Arnold]

17 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Wayne Arnold… do you really want me to go through the post and bold all of your assumptions.  I really don’t want to.  But I will.

 

I can think of one off the top of my head - you said he made a “load of money.”  Assumption 1

 

I don't like arguing semantics but saying "he probably earned a load of money for it" is not an assumption. It's a hypothesis. Saying "the article was worth it because he earned a load of money for it" would be an assumption. See the difference?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I think we're at the point where it's who cares. 

 

Who cares who likes who, we all just have to do what we have to do to get into the Playoffs. 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I don't like arguing semantics but saying "he probably earned a load of money for it" is not an assumption. It's a hypothesis. Saying "the article was worth it because he earned a load of money for it" would be an assumption. See the difference?

 

No, not really.  You made the assumptions about the situation that I did.