WR’s checking with officials when lining up

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Would they give the Defensive players warning if it was anywhere close?  I don't get that.

 

I think they would. I think it's one of those, "hey man be careful you are really close to being Offside. Back up." To me that's a warning. If they are lined up Offside, that's a flag. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

36 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

It’s generally the latter. Nobody is dumb enough to be as far offside as Toney was. 

 

He wasn't even like... wide.  

[dave mcbride]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Usually the former. It's not the refs job to tell them they have an illegal formation, but the refs will help them be on the line instead of Offside.

Toney never even looked at a ref so it was impossible to tell him anyway.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Toney never even looked at a ref so it was impossible to tell him anyway.

 

Oh absolutely. All of this is on Toney. Not surprising as he may be the dumbest person in the NFL right now.

[QLBillsFan]

19 minutes ago, zow2 said:

This morning on ESPN Rex said in all his years of coaching he’s never seen a ref warn a receiver.  If anything, they will gesture to Dline or Oline.  but that’s about it.

Bills had our OG flagged for lining up Offside on a big running play earlier in the year. Never seen that before . But that’s on Toney and his QB, sorry Patty! 

[boyst]

the refs are there to assist in the game and will give guidance on such things like this.

 

i've always found if you treat them right they'll treat you right. i had told them i was having hands to the face when playing TE. the guy told me if i want that called then he might start calling me for holding too.. haha

[All_Pro_Bills]

15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Usually the former. It's not the refs job to tell them they have an illegal formation, but the refs will help them be on the line instead of Offside.

The most abused and uncalled illegal formation penalty is when the OT's are way off the Center a couple yards back to "cheat" on pass protection.  The ref's need to crack down on this infraction.  On the Toney offside the RT was well behind the rule of thumb of having their helmet parallel to the centers belt line.  His helmet was behind the center's butt and his back foot was 3 yards off the LOS.  They could have called that too. 

[stevewin]

Pretty sure the context of Rex's comments was that sometimes for OL/DL you'd get a warning between plays for non-egregious issues  - your tackle needs to move up a bit more, your DT is crowding the ball - that you would then tell the player to correct for subsequent plays.  And he stated multiple times that never happened for a receiver for the entire duration of his coaching career.

 

The mechanism for the receiver to be warned is to proactively check with the ref on the LOS.  This whole narrative Reid/Mahomes are trying to create that refs proactively warn receivers isn't a thing.

[schoolhouserock]

I seem to recall seeing on broadcasts several instances (over like 20 years) where the WR looks to the sideline and the ref gives him a subtle wave of the hand that conveys a message of “back up a step” to get the WR back onside. If Toney had just bothered to look, he likely would have received the same courtesy. It was Toney’s mistake.

[NewEra]

Multiple ex nfl WRs have stated that they ask the refs if they are onside.  That was said due to the talking point being the toney penalty.  I’m sure the answer is both, offside and illegal formation 

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, schoolhouserock said:

I seem to recall seeing on broadcasts several instances (over like 20 years) where the WR looks to the sideline and the ref gives him a subtle wave of the hand that conveys a message of “back up a step” to get the WR back onside. If Toney had just bothered to look, he likely would have received the same courtesy. It was Toney’s mistake.

What you are seeing is the WR checking to see if he’s lined up incorrectly so as to be ‘covering up’ the TE or other WR. He’s not checking to see if he’s over the line of scrimmage. The penalty he’s trying to avoid is illegal formation….not offside. 

[Virgil]

I've thought the same things.  Receivers on the outside will typically check in with the judge, but Toney wasn't on the outside.  He still could have checked in, but didn't.  Toney has no one to blame but himself.  I can't understand all the crying over this play.

 

For me, who's to say Mahomes only threw it deep because he saw the flag, thought it was defensive, and took a chance on a perceived free play.

[CNYfan]

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

I've thought the same things.  Receivers on the outside will typically check in with the judge, but Toney wasn't on the outside.  He still could have checked in, but didn't.  Toney has no one to blame but himself.  I can't understand all the crying over this play.

 

For me, who's to say Mahomes only threw it deep because he saw the flag, thought it was defensive, and took a chance on a perceived free play.

 

The bold is my thing.   Patrick couldn't make a play, became frustrated and blamed the refs when they had to look at their own failures.    

[Simon]

4 hours ago, NoSaint said:

that’s relatively normal but not with a player inside and in a rush. Around the perimeter, light guidance is par for the course.

This.

"you're off, 84" to a nearby boundary guy is within the norm.

Screaming halfway across the field to a slot WR who's hurrying around in the last couple minutes and paying no attention to you is not.

[CodeMonkey]

4 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

It’s not the refs responsibility to line up the players 

Agreed.  But they should probably be consistent about it. Make it always be the players responsibility for the legality of the formation as well as offside.  Take away the warning/asking completely. And, of course, call it every time it happens.

Edited December 11, 2023 by CodeMonkey

[Virgil]

Just now, CNYfan said:

 

The bold is my thing.   Patrick couldn't make a play, became frustrated and blamed the refs when they had to look at their own failures.    

 

If it was a penalty within play, then maybe.  But a pre-snap flag before anything's happened on the field?  Yeah, get over it already.

 

If they want to see some backbreakingly bad penalties, let me pull up the Eagles tape

[SectionC3]

4 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Someone clarify…

 

Are the WR’s asking if they are onside, or are they asking about the illegal formation/covering up/not covering up?

 

I believe it is the latter, but not positive. 

Both.  Happens all the time.  But probably not for Toney because he was nearly inline.  He just lined up wrong, plain and simple. 

13 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

Agreed.  But they should probably be consistent about it. Make it always be the players responsibility for the legality of the formation as well as offside.  Take away the warning/asking completely. And, of course, call it every time it happens.

Asking is what prevents this from happening.  It’s good officiating. 

[947]

Every receiver is supposed to check-in with the ref. If you're on the line, you hold your fist forward while looking at the ref. The ref will either give you a thumbs-up or motion backwards or forward & give you the thumbs-up once you're good. If you're supposed to be off the line (slot), you hold a fist backwards & look at the ref, same process.

 

It's not a rule at any level of football that you have to check-in, but 99% of coaches require their players to do it. At the very least, if you cause an illegal formation penalty by not checking-in, you'll find yourself in the doghouse.

 

I coach 8th grade football, I had an issue with this twice this year, both resulting in penalties. The players got an earful about checking in on every single play.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

From what I have heard from ex-players today, one of the easiest and most common ways to get as much room as you can is to look to the sideline and check to see what the ref will allow. As in "is this good? Step back? Is this good?"

 

If you do the bare minimum and check, you can get away with it.

 

Toney did not do that in the slightest

[Returntoglory]

5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

It’s generally the latter. Nobody is dumb enough to be as far offside as Toney was. 

Oh but he was "only an inch or two"