Patty is not happy... Boo Hoo!

[JohnnyBuffalo]

What a bunch of brats they are.   They actually said that normally refs tell them they are Offside….ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?    So they admit to getting help?

 

They don’t like that rule?   I don’t like 12 men on the field rule…how about that?    That’s just as dumb as being Offside….an infinitesimally stupid error for this team as was 12 men on the field.    You lost!   Suck it up butter cup.   
 

hahahah.  Bunch of brats.  

[Beck Water]

21 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

It was the polite version of "cool story bro".

 

Because Josh knows nothing of heartbreaking losses and plays called back by dumb penalties.

 

I also think that there is something that bears repeating: this isn't a binary of "Refs made a call Bills win, no call Chiefs win". This isn't the Bills having 12 men on the field so Denver gets another kick or the Eagles fumbling in overtime and the turnover is called back or the game would be over.

 

Let's say, hypothetically, that the play stands as called and is a touchdown. The Bills are now in 4 down territory with all timeouts. It's not a sure thing at all.

 

And it's not as if the Chiefs suddenly had no chance. They had two more plays to get a first down and all the time in the world. And it's maddening to see the discussion seemingly be "oh the refs decided the game again"

 

Very clearly put.

 

And absolutely correct

 

This was not a "walk off win" penalty.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Beck Water

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Seriously, how lucky are we to have Josh?  How many times has he had to swallow a close loss where he was the only thing even keeping us in the game, and then later approach the media and hold himself accountable?

 

Yes, Mahomes has the rings.  He also happened to find himself in a beyond perfect scenario for a young QB with Reid, Kelce and Tyreek Hill.  This year we're finding out what happens when there's some adversity and he's showing his ass in public.

[BBFL]

3 minutes ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

What a bunch of brats they are.   They actually said that normally refs tell them they are Offside….ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?    So they admit to getting help?

 

They don’t like that rule?   I don’t like 12 men on the field rule…how about that?    That’s just as dumb as being Offside….an infinitesimally stupid error for this team as was 12 men on the field.    You lost!   Suck it up butter cup.   
 

hahahah.  Bunch of brats.  

If you’ve been playing organised football for years and are now a professional athlete getting paid to do so, the simplest rule of the game for your position shouldn’t need a “warning”. 
 

Only players who ever should be offside is a defender at the LOS. 

1 minute ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

Seriously, how lucky are we to have Josh?  How many times has he had to swallow a close loss where he was the only thing even keeping us in the game, and then later approach the media and hold himself accountable?

 

Yes, Mahomes has the rings.  He also happened to find himself in a beyond perfect scenario for a young QB with Reid, Kelce and Tyreek Hill.  This year we're finding out what happens when there's some adversity and he's showing his ass in public.

That’s testament to the hardship he’s had to endure without immediate success and winning…

 

Even then I don’t think Josh has that meltdown if he landed in the Chiefs and Andy Reid’s system…

[Beck Water]

10 minutes ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

What a bunch of brats they are.   They actually said that normally refs tell them they are Offside….ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?    So they admit to getting help?

 

It is normal and quite common that if the WR look to the ref for confirmation that they are lined up OK and the ref signals "you're good", it won't be called even if on film it can be seen they're a bit off.

 

This isn't KC, this is every team.  Every WR

 

There was a controversial play a while back - I *think* it might have been the Eagles win over the Pats in 2017 ..... there was a play on which the Eagles WR was probably lined up slightly off-sides and Patriots fans were livid it hadn't been called and all over "poor us, uncalled penalty cost us the game", but it could clearly be seen that the Eagles WR had looked to the ref on his side and been given "you're good", so no penalty was called and "too bad, so sad" for the Pats.

 

The key is, the WR has to ask, usually by looking at the ref and sometimes making a questioning hand gesture and the ref nods or thumbs-up them.

 

There's no expectation at all that the ref will trot over and tap Mr. Mahomes on the shoulder and say "Excuse me Mr Mahomes Sir but one of your skill players is positioned inappropriately, Sir"

 

5 minutes ago, BBFL said:

If you’ve been playing organised football for years and are now a professional athlete getting paid to do so, the simplest rule of the game for your position shouldn’t need a “warning”.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's a fact that WR do look to the refs and the refs will give them input if they look.  I haven't heard it called a "warning" before

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Beck Water

[Dopey]

13 minutes ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

What a bunch of brats they are.   They actually said that normally refs tell them they are Offside….ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?    So they admit to getting help?

 

They don’t like that rule?   I don’t like 12 men on the field rule…how about that?    That’s just as dumb as being Offside….an infinitesimally stupid error for this team as was 12 men on the field.    You lost!   Suck it up butter cup.   
 

hahahah.  Bunch of brats.  

Awesome example. It’s not like the 12th guy affected the play. 
Bunch of babies. 

[C.Biscuit97]

13 minutes ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

What a bunch of brats they are.   They actually said that normally refs tell them they are Offside….ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?    So they admit to getting help?

 

They don’t like that rule?   I don’t like 12 men on the field rule…how about that?    That’s just as dumb as being Offside….an infinitesimally stupid error for this team as was 12 men on the field.    You lost!   Suck it up butter cup.   
 

hahahah.  Bunch of brats.  

I don’t care I like mahomes (has in fantasy his breakout year won me a bunch of a money). But this was very Brady sore loser vibes. If it was reversed, we’d hate the call too. But they looked like children.

 

he should have been yelling at Toney, who might be the dumbest player in the nfl.

[BBFL]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It is normal and quite common that if the WR look to the ref for confirmation that they are lined up OK and the ref signals "you're good", it won't be called even if on film it can be seen they're a bit off.

 

This isn't KC, this is every team.  Every WR

 

There was a controversial play a while back - I *think* it might have been the Eagles win over the Pats in 2017 ..... there was a play on which the Eagles WR was probably lined up slightly off-sides and Patriots fans were livid it hadn't been called and all over "poor us, uncalled penalty cost us the game", but it could clearly be seen that the Eagles WR had looked to the ref on his side and been given "you're good", so no penalty was called and "too bad, so sad" for the Pats.

 

The key is, the WR has to ask, usually by looking at the ref and sometimes making a questioning hand gesture and the ref nods or thumbs-up them.

 

There's no expectation at all that the ref will trot over and tap Mr. Mahomes on the shoulder and say "Excuse me Mr Mahomes Sir but one of your skill players is positioned inappropriately, Sir"

 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's a fact that WR do look to the refs and the refs will give them input if they look.  I haven't heard it called a "warning" before

 

Great point. Maybe Toney didn’t do his due diligence then?
 

Either way, you can’t play/do a job for millions of dollars and be taught something that should be second nature. I mean, you’re always looking in-field as a downfield target so you have to know you’re lined up incorrectly. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by BBFL

[Gregg]

If the Chiefs aren't careful, they might not win the division. The Broncos are only a game back now. They can forget the #1 seed and they might be playing on WC weekend as a WC.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Gregg

[Process]

Look at toney compared to the WR on the other side 😂

 

 

[Steve O]

12 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Is there video?

https://x.com/thadbrown7/status/1734048405444256092?s=42

 

Not searching through 6 pages to see if this has been posted, apologies if it has.

[JohnnyBuffalo]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It is normal and quite common that if the WR look to the ref for confirmation that they are lined up OK and the ref signals "you're good", it won't be called even if on film it can be seen they're a bit off.

 

This isn't KC, this is every team.  Every WR

 

There was a controversial play a while back - I *think* it might have been the Eagles win over the Pats in 2017 ..... there was a play on which the Eagles WR was probably lined up slightly off-sides and Patriots fans were livid it hadn't been called and all over "poor us, uncalled penalty cost us the game", but it could clearly be seen that the Eagles WR had looked to the ref on his side and been given "you're good", so no penalty was called and "too bad, so sad" for the Pats.

 

The key is, the WR has to ask, usually by looking at the ref and sometimes making a questioning hand gesture and the ref nods or thumbs-up them.

 

There's no expectation at all that the ref will trot over and tap Mr. Mahomes on the shoulder and say "Excuse me Mr Mahomes Sir but one of your skill players is positioned inappropriately, Sir"

 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's a fact that WR do look to the refs and the refs will give them input if they look.  I haven't heard it called a "warning" before

 

I have been part of a collegiate game that the WR close to the near side ref gestures to him “I’m good?…ref says yep!”    And then play goes off and the far side ref calls him offside…guess what?    Call stood.  That’s it.   If that had taken place I would so agree with these brats.   But he was Offside!    How can you say anything else?   
 

I am so happy for the Bills and we fans.    We deserved one of those games against a team like that.   Keep crying punk!

 

Love it!   Go Bills!

[Billsatlastin2018]

2 minutes ago, BBFL said:

Great point. Maybe Toney didn’t do his due diligence then?
 

Either way, you can’t play do a job for millions of dollars and be taught something that should be second nature. I mean, you’re always looking in-field as a downfield target. 

Uh yeah! Dude has been a big,whipping boy clown with the dropsies this year. He ain’t getting any Jerry Rice breaks for being incompetent.

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

I have been part of a collegiate game that the WR close to the near side ref gestures to him “I’m good?…ref says yep!”    And then play goes off and the far side ref calls him offside…guess what?    Call stood.  That’s it.   If that had taken place I would so agree with these brats.   But he was Offside!    How can you say anything else?   
 

I am so happy for the Bills and we fans.    We deserved one of those games against a team like that.   Keep crying punk!

 

Love it!   Go Bills!

 

Yeah, what you've seen does happen, too, but more often than not the WR would be good.

 

My point was, you've seen and I've seen the WR gesturing and getting feedback from the ref, not just in Chiefs games but in any game, and much more often than not it stands (though one zebra usually isn't going to fight his colleague zebra if it's called anyway)

 

We both agree that's not what happened here, we don't see Toney looking to the ref and getting the "yep" and Toney was clearly and objectively off-sides, so Cry Me a River Paddy.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Beck Water

[nedboy7]

Andy Reid should be embarrassed.  F him and his rat.  Welcome to heartbreak.  I wonder if Taylor will write a song about how hard it’s been playing against the refs. 

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

This whole discussion about the ref giving a warning normally applies when a WR is lined up wide, and far away from the football.  You know, where it might be difficult to tell if you were lined up a little Offside.  Toney was 6 feet from the ball and staring right at it.  The fact that both Mahomes and Reid are acting like this was a borderline call is laughable and embarrassing.  They deserve all of the ridicule that is coming their way.  The only thing missing from their tantrum is a demand to speak to the manager.

Edited December 11, 2023 by HereComesTheReignAgain

[JohnnyBuffalo]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yeah, what you've seen does happen, too, but more often than not the WR would be good.

 

My point was, you've seen and I've seen the WR gesturing and getting feedback from the ref, not just in Chiefs games but in any game, and much more often than not it stands (though one zebra usually isn't going to fight his colleague zebra if it's called anyway)

 

We both agree that's not what happened here, we don't see Toney looking to the ref and getting the "yep" so Cry Me a River Paddy.

I was actually agreeing with your point.  Think we are on same page.    If Toney had asked and the ref answered and the call happened then yeah I would say that’s awful regardless of who it’s called on.   
 

 

[JoshAllin]

The only argument should be they whistle the ball and call the play dead rather than letting it play out, I thought this was a free play type situation at first

[Beck Water]

8 minutes ago, BBFL said:

Great point. Maybe Toney didn’t do his due diligence then?

 

As far as I've been able to tell, No, he did Not.  And I believe Cheffers said something about that.  (this may have been linked up thread)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-referee-explains-offside-call-on-kadarius-toney-that-outraged-chiefs-after-loss-to-bills/ar-AA1liRbV

Quote

"It's one of those things we don't want to be overly technical on, but when his alignment he's lined up over the ball, that's something that we are going to call as offensive offside," Cheffers said of the call. "So that's what the down judge saw. He saw that the alignment was over the ball and that's what he ruled on the field. That's what he called."

Indeed, as Cheffers detailed, Toney was lined up beyond the back of the ball. That, by definition, requires officials to call an offensive offside, as was noted by former referee turned CBS rules analyst Gene Steratore, among others.

So while the Chiefs believed the call to be controversial, it was handled correctly. Toney had simply made a big mistake at the worst possible time.

 

Quote

Additionally, Cheffers explained that players are allowed to check with an official whether they are offside before the play. That gives them a chance to realign to avoid being penalized. Toney didn't do that before the game-changing call, and he wasn't close to being onside either.

"Ultimately, if they look for alignment advice, certainly we are going to give it to them. But ultimately, they are responsible for wherever they line up," Cheffers said. "And, certainly, no warning is required, especially if they are lined up so far Offside where they're actually blocking our view of the ball. So, we would give them some sort of a warning if it was anywhere close, but this particular one is beyond a warning."

 

[BillsDad51]

7 minutes ago, Process said:

Look at toney compared to the WR on the other side 😂

 

 

Even worse violation than indicated in sideline view on TV last night.