How have the Bills been after their Bye Week?

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

And just BTW, if you think that McDoesn'tKnow can't possibly turn the "culture" that exists at OBD sour in short order, think that one over a little bit more.  

 

This ridiculous insinuation that we're otherwise headed for division championships every season and playoffs is clearly over.  

 

The free ride of three bereft AFCE teams post-Brady is now over as well with Miami the better team.  

 

And a little something to think about from Dunne's article, you should definitely read the context, but here's the summation;  

 

One ex-Bills assistant said he’s been hearing from players and coaches alike who want out. 

 

“It’s all a persona,” this coach said. “You wouldn’t have players and coaches asking — begging — to get out of there if the culture was so great. That’s a good team that’s won a lot of football games. It’s hard to win games in this league. It’s not easy. Players and coaches would rather go somewhere else than be there and be miserable.”

 

I'm not saying that's not embellished at least a little, but it's far from not likely.  If we miss the playoffs, we'll likely be seeing some visible discontent from the outside even.  

 

File under Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.  

 

 

 

 

What that shows is that there's a coach out there - specifically an ex-coach - who doesn't like McDermott. None of the rest of the media gets any sense that that's what the people currently think. (Look at the Buffalo Plus posting on youtube today, as one example.)

 

 

Could it be more than that? Sure, but outside Dunne' sources, where is the rest of it?

 

There have been a few guys through the years who wanted out. Quinton Spain, for instance. But what we have also seen a ton of is people leaving for more money and greener pastures ... and then coming back a few years later wishing they hadn't left and appreciating being here even more than they had. Phillips. Beasley. Shaq, John Brown. It's not all that short a list and they've proved they're not blowing smoke by coming back.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Thurman#1

[PBF81]

51 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Nope, not happy with ceilinged out.

 

But there's absolutely zero reason to believe that's where McDermott is. Just as easily he could be approaching his best days.

 

I do love your optimism.   

 

 

37 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

What that shows is that there's a coach out there - specifically an ex-coach - who doesn't like McDermott. None of the rest of the media gets any sense that that's what the people currently think. (Look at the Buffalo Plus posting on youtube today, as one example.)

 

 

Could it be more than that? Sure, but outside Dunne' sources, where is the rest of it?

 

There have been a few guys through the years who wanted out. Quinton Spain, for instance. But what we have also seen a ton of is people leaving for more money and greener pastures ... and then coming back a few years later wishing they hadn't left and appreciating being here even more than they had. Phillips. Beasley. Shaq, John Brown. It's not all that short a list and they've proved they're not blowing smoke by coming back.

 

Well, besides those few 25 sources, he didn't specify. 

 

Poona Ford's unhappy.  So is Fournette.  

 

It also projects to that those guys weren't told the truth.  Not that it matters in Fournette's case as he didn't seem to have any other offers, but not so for Ford.  

 

You also have to remember, that a bunch of our coaching staff is only here in roles that they wouldn't have elsewhere, specifically because of those personal connections to McD in Carolina.  That's hardly an endorsement of your position.  

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

10 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

And just BTW, if you think that McDoesn'tKnow can't possibly turn the "culture" that exists at OBD sour in short order, think that one over a little bit more.  

 

This ridiculous insinuation that we're otherwise headed for division championships every season and playoffs is clearly over.  

 

The free ride of three bereft AFCE teams post-Brady is now over as well with Miami the better team.  

 

And a little something to think about from Dunne's article, you should definitely read the context, but here's the summation;  

 

One ex-Bills assistant said he’s been hearing from players and coaches alike who want out. 

 

“It’s all a persona,” this coach said. “You wouldn’t have players and coaches asking — begging — to get out of there if the culture was so great. That’s a good team that’s won a lot of football games. It’s hard to win games in this league. It’s not easy. Players and coaches would rather go somewhere else than be there and be miserable.”

 

I'm not saying that's not embellished at least a little, but it's far from not likely.  If we miss the playoffs, we'll likely be seeing some visible discontent from the outside even.  

 

File under Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.  

 

 

I think Jordan Poyer disagrees. And so does Jordan Phillips. Shaq Lawson. Cole Beasley. John Brown. Josh Norman. AJ Klein. I could keep going. 

 

Point is time and again players leave...and come back. I believe that over a nameless whistleblower. 

 

That's not to say there aren't SOME that feel that way. But I'm betting if you talk to the proper people you can get a set of statements like that on almost any NFL head coach. 

[PBF81]

8 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think Jordan Poyer disagrees. And so does Jordan Phillips. Shaq Lawson. Cole Beasley. John Brown. Josh Norman. AJ Klein. I could keep going. 

 

Point is time and again players leave...and come back. I believe that over a nameless whistleblower. 

 

That's not to say there aren't SOME that feel that way. But I'm betting if you talk to the proper people you can get a set of statements like that on almost any NFL head coach. 

 

We have no idea what those guys think personally.  This is a very private team, more so than teams of the past, perhaps the most private, which when we think about it makes a little sense because that's the way their head coach is.  

 

What about Diggs?  Pretty sure we don't know the whole story there.  It's reasonable to suspect that we haven't heard the last from him.  

 

Poona Ford.  Fournette.  I'd also question Beasley.  Do you have quotes from them saying as much?  Klein should be on his knees before McD for even having the role he did, he wouldn't have gotten it elsewhere as he did here.  

 

Players get paid enough and they keep their mouths shut.  

 

It's a fair point however.  

 

Remember too, that what Dunne's pointing out by the players and coaches, lots of them, not just a few, is the type of thing that if you pipe up and say what you really think to McD, your time there could be finished.  That's hardly a culture that prompts openess.  Just sayin'.  

 

 

[Big Turk]

18 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

And playing at Arrowhead AGAIN!!!

 

Where they have won the last 2 games they played in the regular season(including last year) and would have been 3 overall if not for the 13 second debacle. Statistically Allen might have his best games there.

[PBF81]

12 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

you happy with starting all over again with a completely new staff, new offense, new defense, mismatched roster, 2-3 years of 8 and 8 while things are blown up and rebuilt ?  that's what happens when you shoot the HC.. everyone goes out with him,   everyone.

 

Been thinking about this a little bit more.  

 

Did you read Dunne's piece, the whole thing, not simply the free part?   It's well worth the $8 alone if you want to understand the current state of this team.  

 

Among the handful of core takeaways are that players are loathe to speak their minds to McD for fear of retribution of one sort or another.  

 

That coming from current players/coaches as well.  

 

So to your point, and many of us have come to this conclusion independently well before this Dunne piece came out, which BTW, he'd been researching and compiling for quite some time, it seems that the highly praised "culture" here is precariously teetering on the fence leaning towards falling into the toxic category.  Contrary to the thoughts of many as posted, that he woke up last week or a few weeks ago, and decided to write it and release it off the cuff.  

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

25 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

We have no idea what those guys think personally.  This is a very private team, more so than teams of the past, perhaps the most private, which when we think about it makes a little sense because that's the way their head coach is.  

 

 

Ok. So when it's an opinion presented by someone that won't attach their name to the statement, yet it conforms to your opinion it's an obvious statement of fact.

 

When presented with a factual list of players that left and came back it's "We have no idea what they are thinking." And "It's a private team," yet everyone that's apparently even been affiliated with it is jumping at the chance to talk to a reporter. 

 

There's a LOT in that story that makes sense. There's also a lot that kind of contradicts itself and the narrative its trying to create. To think any of it is fact based on shadowed hearsays is a reach. To brush it 100% aside is also a reach. As with most things the truth is likely closer to the middle. 

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Ok. So when it's an opinion presented by someone that won't attach their name to the statement, yet it conforms to your opinion it's an obvious statement of fact.

 

When presented with a factual list of players that left and came back it's "We have no idea what they are thinking." And "It's a private team," yet everyone that's apparently even been affiliated with it is jumping at the chance to talk to a reporter. 

 

There's a LOT in that story that makes sense. There's also a lot that kind of contradicts itself and the narrative its trying to create. To think any of it is fact based on shadowed hearsays is a reach. To brush it 100% aside is also a reach. As with most things the truth is likely closer to the middle. 

 

Again, the one thing that you're not ackowledging, is statements by both current as well as former players, stating outright, that anyone that says something that McD doesn't agree with, much less challenges or disagrees with him, is chastised or castigated by him.  

 

That hardly fosters a culture of openess.  You seem to ignore that entirely.  

 

Again, we'll see as time goes on, more will come out.  It's not as if we have any say over any of this.  

 

And when you said "Poyer agrees" above, it's clear that McD treats his DBs differently than he does the rest of the team.  That's been blatant to outsiders for years.  

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Again, the one thing that you're not ackowledging, is statements by both current as well as former players, stating outright, that anyone that says something that McD doesn't agree with, much less challenges or disagrees with him, is chastised or castigated by him.  

 

That hardly fosters a culture of openess.  You seem to ignore that entirely.  

 

Again, we'll see as time goes on, more will come out.  It's not as if we have any say over any of this.  

 

And when you said "Poyer agrees" above, it's clear that McD treats his DBs differently than he does the rest of the team.  That's been blatant to outsiders for years.  

 

 

I don't ignore anything. I just can't give too much credence to what amounts to hearsay. Literally no one I have seen has put their name behind any statement. That includes former players/coaches that would suffer no repercussion. I haven't been on Twitter much in the last 24 hours, however I've seen no former players lend any validation to these reports. Without looking I would bet Quentin Spain has said something. By the same token I haven't seen any former players refute it either. Again, truth is likely in the middle. 

 

You like to say things like "it's clear" a lot. While it may be clear to you it boils down to your opinion. Nothing wrong with having an opinion, of course. I just don't like when people make or take opinion as fact. And the piece that Ty wrote, while he worked hard and did I'm sure his due diligence was FILLED with opinions of people that did not attach their name to it. 

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I don't ignore anything. I just can't give too much credence to what amounts to hearsay. Literally no one I have seen has put their name behind any statement. That includes former players/coaches that would suffer no repercussion. I haven't been on Twitter much in the last 24 hours, however I've seen no former players lend any validation to these reports. Without looking I would bet Quentin Spain has said something. By the same token I haven't seen any former players refute it either. Again, truth is likely in the middle. 

 

You like to say things like "it's clear" a lot. While it may be clear to you it boils down to your opinion. Nothing wrong with having an opinion, of course. I just don't like when people make or take opinion as fact. And the piece that Ty wrote, while he worked hard and did I'm sure his due diligence was FILLED with opinions of people that did not attach their name to it. 

 

I'd strongly suggest taht you read Dunne's entire article.  

 

If you want to agree with the many sources he's cited, or call them liars, feel free.  You won't hurt my feelings.  

 

But as I recall, many of the things that we now know to be absolute fact, were contested by McD's apologists as hearsay, nonsense, and without any substance or basis whatsoever.  So that hasn't aged well.  

 

Otherwise, this really isn't all that important to me.   McD's days are numbered and that's his own doing, not mine, Dunne's, nor anyone else's.  

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by PBF81

[BuffaloBillyG]

18 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'd strongly suggest taht you read Dunne's entire article.  

 

If you want to agree with the many sources he's cited, or call them liars, feel free.  You won't hurt my feelings.  

 

But as I recall, many of the things that we now know to be absolute fact, were contested by McD's apologists as hearsay, nonsense, and without any substance or basis whatsoever.  So that hasn't aged well.  

 

Otherwise, this really isn't all that important to me.   McD's days are numbered and that's his own doing, not mine, Dunne's, nor anyone else's.  

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

Again, stating opinion as fact. And rather bold to assume I didn't read the entire article. It's possible 2 people can read the same words and come away with different outlooks. As a matter of fact, good writers often strive for that. And Ty is a good writer. 

 

As I said, I'm certain there are facts a plenty in that piece. However, looking objectively at this piece I find it difficult to think that a piece written by a writer who is based up the road from the Bills and is denied credentials spoke to 25 former players and coaches and objectively came out with these results. That's all. It's almost like there was a direction it was intended and once his "Burn Book" was complete he put it out....riiiiight before a HUGE game for the Bills that could define their season. Weird set of circumstances. 

 

 

[PBF81]

31 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Again, stating opinion as fact. And rather bold to assume I didn't read the entire article. It's possible 2 people can read the same words and come away with different outlooks. As a matter of fact, good writers often strive for that. And Ty is a good writer. 

 

As I said, I'm certain there are facts a plenty in that piece. However, looking objectively at this piece I find it difficult to think that a piece written by a writer who is based up the road from the Bills and is denied credentials spoke to 25 former players and coaches and objectively came out with these results. That's all. It's almost like there was a direction it was intended and once his "Burn Book" was complete he put it out....riiiiight before a HUGE game for the Bills that could define their season. Weird set of circumstances. 

 

 

 

I stand by that.  There's zero chance that with the support of the fans and community that McDoesn'tKnow continues to stay on for much longer.  I give him next season tops.  

 

What Pegula does is anyone's guess, but relegating this team to a higher caliber version of the Sabres is not in his best interests.  

 

 

 

 

[Jerome007]

McD is not that great in the clutch, in spur of the moment thing, but he is well prepared. Not surprised the team is 6-0 coming off the bye. I am of  the opinion is he is good not great, so almost an obstacle to winning the big one. Yet we have to credit  him for what he is damn good at too.

 

As for rumors of discontent, why would Ford or Fournette be happy? In all teams, some players hate the coach, some love him, most are fairly neutral. It's when that balance is heavy on one side or another that it gets bad. By the look of it, he has NOT lost he locker room. But it's natural if some players, like many of us, don't trust him to lead them to a Superbowl win. Yet bad coaches have won, teams with bad QBs have won it.  FIGHT ON!!

[bklnpete]

Brady used his time to scheme up some nasty stuff that's gonna blow the Chiefs' minds! Bills 37 Chiefs 24!

[bklnpete]

15 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Cole Beasley. John Brown. Josh Norman. AJ Klein. I could keep going. 

You could keep going? Really? Because it sure sounds like someone who is running out of examples. 

[Paul Costa]

On 12/7/2023 at 2:37 PM, Ramza86 said:

I appreciate this post. Love the talking heads using after bye 6-0 garbage.

 

 

It is a fact right? The most obvious fact 🤔

[Paul Costa]

23 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

We have no idea what those guys think personally.  This is a very private team, more so than teams of the past, perhaps the most private, which when we think about it makes a little sense because that's the way their head coach is.  

 

What about Diggs?  Pretty sure we don't know the whole story there.  It's reasonable to suspect that we haven't heard the last from him.  

 

Poona Ford.  Fournette.  I'd also question Beasley.  Do you have quotes from them saying as much?  Klein should be on his knees before McD for even having the role he did, he wouldn't have gotten it elsewhere as he did here.  

 

Players get paid enough and they keep their mouths shut.  

 

It's a fair point however.  

 

Remember too, that what Dunne's pointing out by the players and coaches, lots of them, not just a few, is the type of thing that if you pipe up and say what you really think to McD, your time there could be finished.  That's hardly a culture that prompts openess.  Just sayin'.  

 

 

That’s kinda the point. Dunne is making a lot of claims but with no ones name behind them. If Steph Diggs said …. Then yeah you have a valid point. But it’s Jon Feliciano , Quinton Spain or some assistant line coach who’s contract wasn’t renewed it not news.It’s much like the classic Trump lines “ people are saying” or “I’m hearing things”. It’s red meat for ######s. ######s that want their narrative to be true

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, Paul Costa said:

That’s kinda the point. Dunne is making a lot of claims but with no ones name behind them. If Steph Diggs said …. Then yeah you have a valid point. But it’s Jon Feliciano , Quinton Spain or some assistant line coach who’s contract wasn’t renewed it not news.It’s much like the classic Trump lines “ people are saying” or “I’m hearing things”. It’s red meat for ######s. ######s that want their narrative to be true

 

At the same time, the only (few too) players that have independently defended him, have been on the defensive side of the ball.  And Hyde's a DB too, one of the first brought on by McD whose love is the Secondary.  His support should have been expected.  

 

I'm awaiting the supportive comments from the offensive players.  And Allen's silence is hardly inconspicuous, particularly given the supposed gap in any type of relationship between the two, personal or professional.  

 

Diggs too, who's clearly aligned with Allen.  How about some of the offensive coaches?  Where's this massive thrust of support, it isn't there.  

 

I'm not a big fan of sports media, I draw my own conclusions and only read local/regional stuff related to the Bills.  But a Cowherd brief came up on my phone and I listened to it, and he's right, when players and coaches cannot approach their head coach, ultimately they'll end up going to the media.  

 

As Bills fans we should be happy that so many of them actually care about winning before they leave here while leaving the place undesireable for free-agents due to the head coach.  

 

And honestly, it's now no secret that McD was PO'd when the WRs gave Hall a truck for Christmas?  Do you defend that behavior by McD?  For just one point even.  Is that a good trait, a consistent trait for what he preaches, for a head coach?   Your thoughts on that?   Seems to me that should bother everyone.  

 

 

[Nextmanup]

Past performance is no guarantee of future results in investing, and football.

 

I do like our chances in this one, however.

 

 

[Big Turk]

On 12/8/2023 at 10:28 AM, PBF81 said:

 

Been thinking about this a little bit more.  

 

Did you read Dunne's piece, the whole thing, not simply the free part?   It's well worth the $8 alone if you want to understand the current state of this team.  

 

Among the handful of core takeaways are that players are loathe to speak their minds to McD for fear of retribution of one sort or another.  

 

That coming from current players/coaches as well.  

 

So to your point, and many of us have come to this conclusion independently well before this Dunne piece came out, which BTW, he'd been researching and compiling for quite some time, it seems that the highly praised "culture" here is precariously teetering on the fence leaning towards falling into the toxic category.  Contrary to the thoughts of many as posted, that he woke up last week or a few weeks ago, and decided to write it and release it off the cuff.  

 

 

 

The team didn't play like they think that.  Perhaps you should stop acting as if you couldn't find 25 people to say bad stuff about any NFL head coach.