Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[Richard Noggin]

49 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

The writer is a highly respected member of the press/journalist world.  The dude is not putting his career and reputation on the line making stuff up.  Did he put his own thoughts on some things in the article?  Sure, but all writers do that. All people do that. At least he is using facts from interviews he got first hand.  In this thread we have people that haven't even read the article making stuff up to try and discredit it in any way possible because they have some irrational need to defend a guy in McD that they don't even know.  I find that to be ridiculous.  There is nothing made up in this article.  It's things that people in the know have told him.  Here we have people that are entirely in the dark trying to justify and make stuff up.

 

With respect to the bolded: IS he?

[Scott7975]

Just now, Richard Noggin said:

 

With respect to the bolded: IS he?

 

I've heard nothing but other press backing him up.  Have you heard different?

[Richard Noggin]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I've heard nothing but other press backing him up.  Have you heard different?

 

I haven't heard anything, frankly, from credentialed members of the NFL media machine. But that could very well be because I'm not looking.

 

I mostly think of Dunne the way I think of the NY Post's sports coverage. His entrance into the independent, online, subscription-based space was so reliant on the flawed and limited contributions of two recently fired front office employees (who would not find positions with any other NFL orgs since - although one unfortunately died soon after and the other is a big shot in the XFL, for what it's worth). He (Dunne) specializes in one-sided, salacious polemics derived from anonymous sources. Which doesn't make him wrong, for sure, but it does make him a tabloid peddler. Not a lot of football content to be found. 

 

Also worth noting: I hope Pegula fires McDermott immediately following their next loss. He won't, because the ridiculous org structure is lacking a layer of expertise and insight between the horizontal GM and Head Coach combo and their immediate supervisor, him (the owner - Pegula). Great for stability, that streamlined org chart, but terrible for accountability.

[Scott7975]

 

[Scott7975]

32 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

I haven't heard anything, frankly, from credentialed members of the NFL media machine. But that could very well be because I'm not looking.

 

I mostly think of Dunne the way I think of the NY Post's sports coverage. His entrance into the independent, online, subscription-based space was so reliant on the flawed and limited contributions of two recently fired front office employees (who would not find positions with any other NFL orgs since - although one unfortunately died soon after and the other is a big shot in the XFL, for what it's worth). He (Dunne) specializes in one-sided, salacious polemics derived from anonymous sources. Which doesn't make him wrong, for sure, but it does make him a tabloid peddler. Not a lot of football content to be found. 

 

Also worth noting: I hope Pegula fires McDermott immediately following their next loss. He won't, because the ridiculous org structure is lacking a layer of expertise and insight between the horizontal GM and Head Coach combo and their immediate supervisor, him (the owner - Pegula). Great for stability, that streamlined org chart, but terrible for accountability.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say here. I don't know Dunne from a whole in the wall.  I just have seen people like Tim Graham and such give him respect.  Yes, he may be as you say a tabloid peddler but I like reading that stuff as long as what is written is not made up.  I have no reason to believe any of his sources are fake.  I have no reason to believe anything his sources said was a lie and I have no reason to believe he inaccurately quoted his sources.  Some stuff in the article was his perception or take on the comments to paint a story, but I am intelligent enough to see opinion from the rest and I take it as such and make up my own mind.

 

I like reading that stuff because I like to know.  There are always secrets behind what really happens.  Not enough people report on that stuff.  I hear stat stuff and BS Josh Allen sucks talks everywhere.  I don't care to hear it all the time.  I mean, who didn't want to know what really happened with "i wasn't privy to that conversation" or things like who really took charge in that draft or when did they know they were going to fire Whaley.  Was it because of that?  Was it because McD didn't like him?  There are all kinds of things I would have liked to know from past regimes that people just speculate about.  Now we get real information and all people want to do is discredit it act as if it's all fake and all bs and just a witch hunt or something.  Why?  Because they are too scared that McD will get fired and we will end up like the Sabres.

 

What the Pegulas do with all this is their business.  Personally, I do not think McD is the right coach.  I think that he pisses his pants in key moments.  Something that Dunne tries to get across and pretty much outright says in the article, but I have thought that since 13 seconds.  The article had nothing to do with it.  I also think McD is a good football coach and everything he does is to try and get this team to win a championship.  I don't think anything he does has ill will and I have no reason to believe he is a bad guy.  I just think that "his way" is the wrong way.  This article pointed out to me more of the "his way" stuff that I didn't even know about. I believe every word of it.  Doesn't change anything for me really.  Just gives me more insight into his coaching. 

 

Ultimately, while I think McD is a good coach, I don't think he is a good enough coach.  As the article paints a picture of... this team is only going to win a championship if it overcomes the head coach.  I firmly believe that and I believed that before the article.  It's too hard to win a championship like that.  You already have to overcome injuries, referees sometimes, the way the ball bounces, luck, facing teams that are either better than you or at least on par with you.  It takes too much to win a championship if you have to overcome the HC. 

 

13 seconds is on Sean McDermott.  He has shown nothing since then that he learned from it.  In fact we have lost games in the same fashion from the same coaching style.  This is why I think he needs to go.  Not because of the article or anything in it.  Simply because I believe he isn't good enough and hasn't learned from that.  He still craps his pants.  He still folds in big moments.  This is why he takes timeouts at the end of the game defensively. Just kneeling the ball with Josh Allen and 20 secs against the best team in the league is enough to show me he hasn't learned a damn thing. It showed he is still coaching scared.  Instead of looking at what Josh could do in 20 seconds to win a game, he thought about what could lose the game.  I don't want a coach like that.  I want a coach that sees he has one of the best and most gifted QBs to ever play in the NFL, hands him the ball and says go win this football game.  Too many people are afraid that we will go back to being a crap team by hiring a worse coach.  As long as Josh Allen is here, it won't get worse.  Josh Allen is what is carrying this team, not Sean McDermott.

 

Anybody that disagrees with any of that, I respect that but this is my opinion on it.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Scott7975

[Belgium_Bill]

55 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say here. I don't know Dunne from a whole in the wall.  I just have seen people like Tim Graham and such give him respect.  Yes, he may be as you say a tabloid peddler but I like reading that stuff as long as what is written is not made up.  I have no reason to believe any of his sources are fake.  I have no reason to believe anything his sources said was a lie and I have no reason to believe he inaccurately quoted his sources.  Some stuff in the article was his perception or take on the comments to paint a story, but I am intelligent enough to see opinion from the rest and I take it as such and make up my own mind.

 

I like reading that stuff because I like to know.  There are always secrets behind what really happens.  Not enough people report on that stuff.  I hear stat stuff and BS Josh Allen sucks talks everywhere.  I don't care to hear it all the time.  I mean, who didn't want to know what really happened with "i wasn't privy to that conversation" or things like who really took charge in that draft or when did they know they were going to fire Whaley.  Was it because of that?  Was it because McD didn't like him?  There are all kinds of things I would have liked to know from past regimes that people just speculate about.  Now we get real information and all people want to do is discredit it act as if it's all fake and all bs and just a witch hunt or something.  Why?  Because they are too scared that McD will get fired and we will end up like the Sabres.

 

What the Pegulas do with all this is their business.  Personally, I do not think McD is the right coach.  I think that he pisses his pants in key moments.  Something that Dunne tries to get across and pretty much outright says in the article, but I have thought that since 13 seconds.  The article had nothing to do with it.  I also think McD is a good football coach and everything he does is to try and get this team to win a championship.  I don't think anything he does has ill will and I have no reason to believe he is a bad guy.  I just think that "his way" is the wrong way.  This article pointed out to me more of the "his way" stuff that I didn't even know about. I believe every word of it.  Doesn't change anything for me really.  Just gives me more insight into his coaching. 

 

Ultimately, while I think McD is a good coach, I don't think he is a good enough coach.  As the article paints a picture of... this team is only going to win a championship if it overcomes the head coach.  I firmly believe that and I believed that before the article.  It's too hard to win a championship like that.  You already have to overcome injuries, referees sometimes, the way the ball bounces, luck, facing teams that are either better than you or at least on par with you.  It takes too much to win a championship if you have to overcome the HC. 

 

13 seconds is on Sean McDermott.  He has shown nothing since then that he learned from it.  In fact we have lost games in the same fashion from the same coaching style.  This is why I think he needs to go.  Not because of the article or anything in it.  Simply because I believe he isn't good enough and hasn't learned from that.  He still craps his pants.  He still folds in big moments.  This is why he takes timeouts at the end of the game defensively. Just kneeling the ball with Josh Allen and 20 secs against the best team in the league is enough to show me he hasn't learned a damn thing. It showed he is still coaching scared.  Instead of looking at what Josh could do in 20 seconds to win a game, he thought about what could lose the game.  I don't want a coach like that.  I want a coach that sees he has one of the best and most gifted QBs to ever play in the NFL, hands him the ball and says go win this football game.  Too many people are afraid that we will go back to being a crap team by hiring a worse coach.  As long as Josh Allen is here, it won't get worse.  Josh Allen is what is carrying this team, not Sean McDermott.

 

Anybody that disagrees with any of that, I respect that but this is my opinion on it.

From thousands of miles away I 100% agree with this.

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 minutes ago, Belgium_Bill said:

From thousands of miles away I 100% agree with this.

 

Sidle up all you like, you're not  getting a Bills' game by agreeing with this.

*
😁😉

[Billsfan1972]

12 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Lots of people projecting a lot of their own personal issues onto McDermott. Every little thing an indictment on his character. 
 

Lots of people are broken records on here the last few weeks. Saying the same negative things over and over and over again. 

The broken record comes just as loud from the McD camp.

[Niagara Dude]

8 hours ago, Reks Ryan said:

It’s hard to believe that he interviewed 25 people and no one would go on the record. In today’s world a lot of people are happy to put their name behind critical comments.   Dunne clearly went into this project biased against McDermott.

 

 

Not surprised at all unless any of them were retired guys.  Which teams gives them another shot after doing something like that

[Niagara Dude]

This is a win league business,  when you win everything is good and when you don't win then the knives come out.  I guarantee you this,  if this team loses 2 or more of their final 5 games and miss the playoffs that included our defence giving up leads late in games then the knives will come out.  It was McDermott who named himself DC and said he would fix things on defensive side of the ball. 

 

McDermott supporters will be far fewer and media will be running that Dunn report over and over.  All the negatives will be highlighted and you will hear more reports of players making comments about McDermott. Easy for Terry to give his full support now because he has no choice.  Terry cannot let some players believe they can just tune out McDermott because he won't be around next season.  If I'am Terry I do the exact same thing or McDermott easily loses the locker room.

 

The simple reality is, If they miss the playoffs then everything is on the table,  that includes Terry talking to key players to find out about any communication issues. The fact is if the Bills miss the playoffs everyone will point to losing games to Jets/Pats and Broncos.  Even if they won 2 of those 3 games they are in great shape to win the division right now,  they were not prepared to play any of those games and that is on the HC.  

Edited December 9, 2023 by Niagara Dude
error

[Billsfan1972]

10 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Gotta love people gleefully tearing a person down because the sports team he coaches is making you disappointed.

 

I'm just confused by the entertainment people are taking from this, especially after he came out and said that he's really feeling hurt by it.

 

Celebrity gossip culture is gross and between this and people being excited Von Miller was potentially going to get suspended because he's not playing well on the field (I saw all the second reactions after people's initial reaction of saying that behavior is awful, then switching to "ooh, now he won't play because he stinks")

 

Just I'm not sure what happened after being so freaking proud of being a part of this fan base with the donations and the playoff drought ending and even during the drought the vast majority of people being reasonable if not passionate, and then how everyone said they were changed by the Hamlin injury, but just empty words and it's gotten worse.

 

Now people are gleefully sharing gossip with one another to justify absolutely ripping the joy out of someone who it's never justified to do to someone, but by all accounts is a really genuine person who maybe has some quirks in his personality.

 

Seriously, imagine what it must be like for him tonight, knowing all these people have awful things to say about you...he's a human and is trying his best on top of it... it's gross

Maybe because some of us have had enough of McD and didn't buy a lot of what he said from day one and have seen results on the field and then his response afterwards to think it is phony or disingenuous?

 

Now that does not mean at all that McDermott doesn't mean well, did not handle the Hamlin situation wonderfully and does not want to win.

 

As fans though regardless it has been a tough year and yep a lot of vitriol is directed at McD, and this article encapsulated what many here have thought, particularly about his handling of the offense.  Heck it barely scratched the surface of how the Bills are 6-6 and that there is no doubt that McD's Defense has not made the stop when needed late in games.

[CSBill]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say here. I don't know Dunne from a whole in the wall.  I just have seen people like Tim Graham and such give him respect.  Yes, he may be as you say a tabloid peddler but I like reading that stuff as long as what is written is not made up.  I have no reason to believe any of his sources are fake.  I have no reason to believe anything his sources said was a lie and I have no reason to believe he inaccurately quoted his sources.  Some stuff in the article was his perception or take on the comments to paint a story, but I am intelligent enough to see opinion from the rest and I take it as such and make up my own mind.

 

I like reading that stuff because I like to know.  There are always secrets behind what really happens.  Not enough people report on that stuff.  I hear stat stuff and BS Josh Allen sucks talks everywhere.  I don't care to hear it all the time.  I mean, who didn't want to know what really happened with "i wasn't privy to that conversation" or things like who really took charge in that draft or when did they know they were going to fire Whaley.  Was it because of that?  Was it because McD didn't like him?  There are all kinds of things I would have liked to know from past regimes that people just speculate about.  Now we get real information and all people want to do is discredit it act as if it's all fake and all bs and just a witch hunt or something.  Why?  Because they are too scared that McD will get fired and we will end up like the Sabres.

 

What the Pegulas do with all this is their business.  Personally, I do not think McD is the right coach.  I think that he pisses his pants in key moments.  Something that Dunne tries to get across and pretty much outright says in the article, but I have thought that since 13 seconds.  The article had nothing to do with it.  I also think McD is a good football coach and everything he does is to try and get this team to win a championship.  I don't think anything he does has ill will and I have no reason to believe he is a bad guy.  I just think that "his way" is the wrong way.  This article pointed out to me more of the "his way" stuff that I didn't even know about. I believe every word of it.  Doesn't change anything for me really.  Just gives me more insight into his coaching. 

 

Ultimately, while I think McD is a good coach, I don't think he is a good enough coach.  As the article paints a picture of... this team is only going to win a championship if it overcomes the head coach.  I firmly believe that and I believed that before the article.  It's too hard to win a championship like that.  You already have to overcome injuries, referees sometimes, the way the ball bounces, luck, facing teams that are either better than you or at least on par with you.  It takes too much to win a championship if you have to overcome the HC. 

 

13 seconds is on Sean McDermott.  He has shown nothing since then that he learned from it.  In fact we have lost games in the same fashion from the same coaching style.  This is why I think he needs to go.  Not because of the article or anything in it.  Simply because I believe he isn't good enough and hasn't learned from that.  He still craps his pants.  He still folds in big moments.  This is why he takes timeouts at the end of the game defensively. Just kneeling the ball with Josh Allen and 20 secs against the best team in the league is enough to show me he hasn't learned a damn thing. It showed he is still coaching scared.  Instead of looking at what Josh could do in 20 seconds to win a game, he thought about what could lose the game.  I don't want a coach like that.  I want a coach that sees he has one of the best and most gifted QBs to ever play in the NFL, hands him the ball and says go win this football game.  Too many people are afraid that we will go back to being a crap team by hiring a worse coach.  As long as Josh Allen is here, it won't get worse.  Josh Allen is what is carrying this team, not Sean McDermott.

 

Anybody that disagrees with any of that, I respect that but this is my opinion on it.

 

Well said, Scott 7975. I can't entirely agree with all of it, but I appreciate the thoughtful and nuanced perspective. Thank you.

 

As for the existential crisis of this week: It was a hideously stupid thing to say (I want to sarcastically ask, What, you ran out of "Hitler and the Nazis were such a well-oiled machine"; or. "Wow, how impressive was the planning and execution of the two high school boys who pulled off the Columbine shootings," references?).  [Side Note: I suspect he heard or read that illustration somewhere and unwittingly decided it would be helpful to use someday. And maybe in that context, it works? I have no proof; I'm just speculating why he would ever think of the idea in the first place.]

 

The point here: It was about as stupid as one can get. The fact of it may be true, but using that fact to make a point is as foolish (stupid) as one can get. 

 

And here is what really bothers me: I wish he would say that and show genuine remorse for it. But I don't get that sense from his interviews. I come away with more of an "I'm sorry I got caught" vibe rather than an "I'm an idiot, and that was about as stupid (and inappropriate) of an illustration as I could have ever used." Is there emotion and regret in his response? Yes. But do I see brokenness and a realization of how awful this is? No, I don't. At least not publically. .... And I guess that is the point of the Dunn article (confession, I have not read it). I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not seeing it.

 

I've always had great admiration for him as a person and a coach. I have not contributed anything to TBD's "fire Sean" threads. And I'm still not there, but I am having a tough time processing this one.

 

 

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

That's the downside of putting it behind a paywall as not as many people will read it so they rely on others interpretations.  I'd pay the monthly fee to read it but then would be afraid I'd forget to cancel it.

 

It's more like a small book.  ... about 80 pages.  Very well written.  

 

Well worth the $8.  Pay, download, cancel.  🙂

 

 

[wettlaufer]

9 hours ago, Reks Ryan said:

It’s hard to believe that he interviewed 25 people and no one would go on the record. In today’s world a lot of people are happy to put their name behind critical comments.   Dunne clearly went into this project biased against McDermott.

 

 

 

There were numerous comments made on the record.

 

Why is it hard to believe? Are you familiar with his body of work?

 

I also work in an industry in which I can't come out publicly and smack talk former bosses. It would hurt me in the end. The NFL is a small community and people know if they put their name to negative comments about a former boss, they reduce their future employment and income potential.

 

I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. Chad Hall isn't gonna put his name to the weirdest anecdote in that story (about WRs buying him a truck). And he didn't. His comment was "no comment." So whos' beefing on the Chad Hall story? You don't know, number one. Number two, it's not a beef. It's an accurate recounting of McD being a weirdo.

 

He didn't clearly do anything but report on what 25 separate people, who had firsthand experience working with McD, had to say about the guy. Sorry you don't like it, but that's no reason to accuse others of not doing their job and being unethical.

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

True but the guy does need to make a living and this is how he is doing it.  I am not suggesting that you pay to read it, but what I do in these situations is subscribe and then cancel right away.  They still need to give you access to what you paid for.

 

You're on a roll BTW!

 

👍👍

 

 

[wettlaufer]

10 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

So neither of you have read it lol

That's likely true of 95% of the people who are having this teenager reaction to the story, including McDermott, who once again evaded responsibility for everything in the piece except for the dumb 9/11 story. That was the LEAST damning of everything in the story, but has attracted the most commentary. It was one of many weird anecdotes in the story and not really that important vs the other more important points, namely that McD freezes in big games and is a very shaky leader at many points. 13 seconds is the prime example. Is anyone screeching about that anecdote?

[PBF81]

11 minutes ago, CSBill said:

And here is what really bothers me: I wish he would say that and show genuine remorse for it. But I don't get that sense from his interviews. I come away with more of an "I'm sorry I got caught" vibe rather than an "I'm an idiot, and that was about as stupid (and inappropriate) of an illustration as I could have ever used." Is there emotion and regret in his response? Yes. But do I see brokenness and a realization of how awful this is? No, I don't. At least not publically. .... And I guess that is the point of the Dunn article (confession, I have not read it). I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not seeing it.

 

Given this, you should definitely take the time to read it.  

 

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say here. I don't know Dunne from a whole in the wall.  I just have seen people like Tim Graham and such give him respect.  Yes, he may be as you say a tabloid peddler but I like reading that stuff as long as what is written is not made up.  I have no reason to believe any of his sources are fake.  I have no reason to believe anything his sources said was a lie and I have no reason to believe he inaccurately quoted his sources.  Some stuff in the article was his perception or take on the comments to paint a story, but I am intelligent enough to see opinion from the rest and I take it as such and make up my own mind.

 

I like reading that stuff because I like to know.  There are always secrets behind what really happens.  Not enough people report on that stuff.  I hear stat stuff and BS Josh Allen sucks talks everywhere.  I don't care to hear it all the time.  I mean, who didn't want to know what really happened with "i wasn't privy to that conversation" or things like who really took charge in that draft or when did they know they were going to fire Whaley.  Was it because of that?  Was it because McD didn't like him?  There are all kinds of things I would have liked to know from past regimes that people just speculate about.  Now we get real information and all people want to do is discredit it act as if it's all fake and all bs and just a witch hunt or something.  Why?  Because they are too scared that McD will get fired and we will end up like the Sabres.

 

What the Pegulas do with all this is their business.  Personally, I do not think McD is the right coach.  I think that he pisses his pants in key moments.  Something that Dunne tries to get across and pretty much outright says in the article, but I have thought that since 13 seconds.  The article had nothing to do with it.  I also think McD is a good football coach and everything he does is to try and get this team to win a championship.  I don't think anything he does has ill will and I have no reason to believe he is a bad guy.  I just think that "his way" is the wrong way.  This article pointed out to me more of the "his way" stuff that I didn't even know about. I believe every word of it.  Doesn't change anything for me really.  Just gives me more insight into his coaching. 

 

Ultimately, while I think McD is a good coach, I don't think he is a good enough coach.  As the article paints a picture of... this team is only going to win a championship if it overcomes the head coach.  I firmly believe that and I believed that before the article.  It's too hard to win a championship like that.  You already have to overcome injuries, referees sometimes, the way the ball bounces, luck, facing teams that are either better than you or at least on par with you.  It takes too much to win a championship if you have to overcome the HC. 

 

13 seconds is on Sean McDermott.  He has shown nothing since then that he learned from it.  In fact we have lost games in the same fashion from the same coaching style.  This is why I think he needs to go.  Not because of the article or anything in it.  Simply because I believe he isn't good enough and hasn't learned from that.  He still craps his pants.  He still folds in big moments.  This is why he takes timeouts at the end of the game defensively. Just kneeling the ball with Josh Allen and 20 secs against the best team in the league is enough to show me he hasn't learned a damn thing. It showed he is still coaching scared.  Instead of looking at what Josh could do in 20 seconds to win a game, he thought about what could lose the game.  I don't want a coach like that.  I want a coach that sees he has one of the best and most gifted QBs to ever play in the NFL, hands him the ball and says go win this football game.  Too many people are afraid that we will go back to being a crap team by hiring a worse coach.  As long as Josh Allen is here, it won't get worse.  Josh Allen is what is carrying this team, not Sean McDermott.

 

Anybody that disagrees with any of that, I respect that but this is my opinion on it.

Good stuff.  Too much smoke as I said earlier. He is not the guy,and Terry has to step up and fire him.  You have the most talented QB in the NFL and by anyone's measure a top 4 / All pro caliber QB in the middle of his prime.  Stop wasting that.

[Billsfan1972]

52 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

This is a win league business,  when you win everything is good and when you don't win then the knives come out.  I guarantee you this,  if this team loses 2 or more of their final 5 games and miss the playoffs that included our defence giving up leads late in games then the knives will come out.  It was McDermott who named himself DC and said he would fix things. 

 

McDermott supporters will be far fewer and media will be running the Dunn report over and over.  All the negatives will be highlighted and you will hear more reports of players making comments about McDermott. Easy for Terry to give his full support now because he has no choice.  Terry cannot let some players believe they can just tune out McDermott because he won't be around next season.  If I'am Terry I do the exact same thing or McDermott easily loses the locker room.

 

The simple reality is, If they miss the playoffs then everything is on the table,  that includes Terry talking to key players to find out about any communication issues. The fact is if the Bills miss the playoffs everyone will point to losing games to Jets/Pats and Broncos.  Even if they won 2 of 3 games they are in great shape to win the division right now,  they were not prepared to play any of those games and that is on the HC.  

Even if they won just one game (pick Jets, Denver, NE or Philly all lost in the last two minutes or OT), never mind Jax or Cincy & the Bills are in much better shape. 

[HardyBoy]

We're a crappy fan base, sorry, but it's true. This is basically like cheering an injury.