Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

So he watched us nearly beat the Eagles despite poor coaching and god awful officiating, and then definitely didn't think to himself "I'd better put this out before they potentially beat the very beatable looking Chiefs."

His narrative is that McDermott folds late in games and it continually lets Allen down.  So in Philly Josh Josh was absolutely awesome, drove the Bills to a GW TD, only to lose the lead due to a coach being “tight.” 
 

Then he had Allen take a knee rather than try to win the game with 20 seconds left.  His second narrative that McDermott is holding Allen back.  
 

He thought both of these would be a talking point and that the interest would be high for this article.  Plus he had an extra week to finish with the bye.  
 

And yes, I do think he wanted it before the Chiefs because the Philly loss demonstrated everything in his narrative.  If you could guarantee a similar out against the Chiefs, he’d probably wait until this Monday or Tuesday 

[Reks Ryan]

It’s Dunne’s style.  Presents one sided argument and doesn’t mind embellishments and using unverified comments from sources.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/aaron-rodgers-on-article-this-was-a-smear-attack-0ap3000001025673

[JohnNord]

7 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

You think?

This is my criticism of the article.  I think he had to work to construct this narrative with disgruntled sources (which Beane alluded to) rather than it happening organically. 
 

That’s why I laugh when people say “he used 25 sources.”  He used 25 sources - some had good things to say about McDermott and were not anonymous.  That leaves about 15-20 sources who likely had an ax to grind.  It doesn’t mean these were good sources 

4 minutes ago, Reks Ryan said:

It’s Dunne’s style.  Presents one sided argument and doesn’t mind embellishments and using unverified comments from sources.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/aaron-rodgers-on-article-this-was-a-smear-attack-0ap3000001025673

Yup and look at this quote from your link.  Sound familiar:

 

The thing is about this article it's not a mystery, this was smear attack by a writer looking to advance his career, talking with mostly irrelevant, bitter players who all have an agenda, rather they're advancing their own careers or just trying to stir old stuff up," Rodgers said. "Then what happens is the same tired media folks picking it up and talking about it. It's just emphasizing their opinion about me already. 

 

"The crazy thing is there's super slanted opinions in that piece stated as fact. And there's quote-on-quote facts which are just outright lies. In some cases where you maybe ignore something like this or you don't even really gloss over it, I don't think you can in this case."

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

@GoBills808, what crawled into you tonight?  You're usually quite a reasonable poster with takes I like to read and who can engage in a good discussion where points get acknowledged and debated. 

 

Today, your responses seem like they're firing right left and long of the post you're responding to, and either deliberately not acknowledging or unable to recognize the point.

 

It was said on social media that they were at a Christmas party at Hall's house when they brought him outside to see his truck.

So they were inside, at a party.

 

 

 

I Give Up.  If you started here, it might be worth trying to engage, but since you started with "you think it's a bribe" to @HardyBoy (AFTER he explicitly said he didn't for one moment believe that), and then moved on to "it's only problematic because you guys feel it is" (ignoring any basis we stated)....yeah, I'm Out.  You win. Feel good about that.

So you say 'It was said on social media that they were at a party...so they were inside'

 

Then I say...well, maybe whoever wrote that on social media was wrong and had ulterior motives and there actually was no party and they broke no COVID rules. 

 

See how pointless that is?

 

 

[Mikie2times]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I'm sure they did. But you called him a bad head coach. He wasn't. Tony Dungy had more success with less his first 6 years in Tampa than Belichick had his first 6 years with better talent between Cleveland and New England. Belichick who everyone rides the dick of, had 5 losing seasons his first 6 years as head coach. Dungy had 4 playoff seasons and an NFC championship game appearance with Mediocre and garbage at QB. Just saying 

I don’t think Dungy is a bad coach. So I will walk that back. McD is also not a bad coach. But what we are experiencing right now, this good enough to hang in but not good enough to win in the playoffs. I’m not sure that is better than a complete train wreck.

 

It’s like staying married to the wrong person for a decade vs a complete disaster. Things might have been nice at times over that 10 years but that’s exactly the issue. It leaves you always hoping it could be better and ends up being much more costly than if she was just a psycho nut job. Your mom loves her your dad hates her. You’re happy sometimes, miserable most. You get stuck in conflict half their time and the next thing you know you’re 50 pounds overweight, you can barely see your Johnson and  a decade is lost. With the psycho, it’s done and you move on.
 

I can’t give credit to McD for being this type of coach. If anything, that is exactly why I want him gone.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Mikie2times

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Myself for one, but others as well.  I posted it semi-regularly.  

 

Are you saying you saw all of this coming prior to the start of the season? 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

That's the sticking point I have with what I've seen of Dunne's article.  He's clearly giving voice to one strong POV/interpretation about the situation - that McDermott was a dick who rained on a sweet, heartwarming gesture because he was, essentially, an insecure jellyfish who is mentally psychologically and physically able to form relationships with players.

 

But there are other POV on the situation, which is that Hall was violating Covid rules by having a gathering, and that to accept a valuable gift from men you're supposed to be impartially grading every week and giving input to the coaches about, has a problematic side.   Others can disagree, but those POV honestly exist.

And those aren't very hard to perceive, really, but Dunne neither presents them as his own considered thoughts, nor apparently spoke with anyone who might present them (or if he did, he edited them out).

 

 

 

Vaccinated players and staff were allowed to gather outside the club.  Unvaccinated players were allowed to gather in a group of 3.

 

Quote

Vaccinated players are permitted to gather with other fully vaccinated players or team personnel outside of the team facility. Unvaccinated players are prohibited from gathering in groups of more than three players outside of the club facility or team travel.

 

Pretty sure most of our guys were vaccinated except for the Bease and a couple others. The Titans were busted practicing outside the club at two different times leading to our game week, which was against the rules, jack ***** happened.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Reks Ryan said:

It’s hard to believe that he interviewed 25 people and no one would go on the record. In today’s world a lot of people are happy to put their name behind critical comments.   Dunne clearly went into this project biased against McDermott.

 

 

it would be absolutely shocking for a player to tell many of these stories on the record 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

I haven't read it yet either...my cousin sent me that piece with the truck story as a screenshot and when I read it yesterday, my initial thought was what a jerk...but then I thought about it more and put myself in his shoes and tried to understand if maybe there was a different reason and I realized it was a potential perceived conflict of interest and that the source was probably being completely honest, but was looking at it from their perspective and not McDs.

 

Then I read about and listened to him saying how much it hurt him to read people saying stuff about him like that, and I couldn't stay quiet about it and here I am 

 

McD's reaction wasn't that though.  If it was then thats what would have been said.  You are applying your own life to theirs.  It's a different world.  Aint nobody on the team trying to bribe a WR coach and McD surely didn't take it that way either.

[Buffalo03]

7 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I don’t think Dungy is a bad coach. So I will walk that back. McD is also not a bad coach. But what we are experiencing right now, this good enough to hang in but not good enough to win in the playoffs. I’m not sure that is better than a complete train wreck.

 

It’s like staying married to the wrong person for a decade vs a complete disaster. Things might have been nice at times over that 10 years but that’s exactly the issue. It leaves you always hoping it could be better and ends up being much more costly than if she was just a psycho nut job. Your mom loves her your dad hates her. You’re happy sometimes, miserable most. You get stuck in conflict half their time and the next thing you know you’re 50 pounds overweight, you can barely see your Johnson and  a decade is lost. With the psycho, it’s done and you move on.
 

I can’t give credit to McD for being this type of coach. If anything, that is exactly why I want him gone.

I'm not in disagreement about McDermott. My argument was moreso about Dungy. Dungy did more with less in Tampa than McDermott has done with Josh Allen. So you can say he is better than McDermott

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So you say 'It was said on social media that they were at a party...so they were inside'

 

Then I say...well, maybe whoever wrote that on social media was wrong and had ulterior motives and there actually was no party and they broke no COVID rules. 

 

See how pointless that is?

 

 

WTF? This wasn't a ***** secret there was no mystery.

 

Dang if only there wasn't literal video evidence of them coming out of the ***** house. 🙄

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

People should not be giving lavish gifts to people that have decision making power over them. Either said or unsaid (this doesn't need to be said though, it should be part of their organizations annual compliance training)

 

McD: either says above or says something like that wasn't appropriate, or again doesn't even say it because he assumes it's obvious to people why you shouldn't accept that gift

 

Hall: I don't know what to tell you, they just really like me I guess

 

McD: but you're not here to be friends with them, you're their coach...

 

Or

 

Hall: I got this truck from my players!

 

McD: when, I didn't see them give it to you here?

 

Hall: at my house last night, we had a party

 

McD: (during covid restrictions) What do you mean?! I am paying you to coach the players, not he friends with them

 

___

 

Neither of those sound unreasonable to me as a reaction

 

IDGAF about your corporate bs.  If I have a friend and I want to give a friend a gift then I am giving him a gift.  This isn't some person trying to sleep their way to the top in this situation.

 

We have first hand accounts of the story written.  You are trashing it but yet injecting your own made up stuff to make it relevant.  Your stuff is just made up. The writers stuff isn't.

[Governor]

17 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

This is my criticism of the article.  I think he had to work to construct this narrative with disgruntled sources (which Beane alluded to) rather than it happening organically. 
 

That’s why I laugh when people say “he used 25 sources.”  He used 25 sources - some had good things to say about McDermott and were not anonymous.  That leaves about 15-20 sources who likely had an ax to grind.  It doesn’t mean these were good sources 

Yup and look at this quote from your link.  Sound familiar:

 

The thing is about this article it's not a mystery, this was smear attack by a writer looking to advance his career, talking with mostly irrelevant, bitter players who all have an agenda, rather they're advancing their own careers or just trying to stir old stuff up," Rodgers said. "Then what happens is the same tired media folks picking it up and talking about it. It's just emphasizing their opinion about me already. 

 

"The crazy thing is there's super slanted opinions in that piece stated as fact. And there's quote-on-quote facts which are just outright lies. In some cases where you maybe ignore something like this or you don't even really gloss over it, I don't think you can in this case."

There shouldn’t be 15-20 people with an axe to grind in just a few years.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Reks Ryan said:

It’s hard to believe that he interviewed 25 people and no one would go on the record. In today’s world a lot of people are happy to put their name behind critical comments.   Dunne clearly went into this project biased against McDermott.

 

 

 

Another person that didn't read the article but wants to judge it.

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

Curious if anybody's opinion changed on Frazier. I was almost certain he was let go before and they tried to cover that up. But I don't see it that way anymore.

 

I always took it at face value that Frazier wanted a break.  He said so and continues to say so.

[Mikie2times]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Another person that didn't read the article but wants to judge it.

 

I always took it at face value that Frazier wanted a break.  He said so and continues to say so.

It seems very unlikely he could have survived this in one piece and he might have lost his HC as a reference on top of it. Well done by him. 

[Scott7975]

43 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

He explained on Cowherd that he was writing the story and sped up the process after the Eagles loss since he felt it summarized the issues he was writing about.  Plus he had an extra week.  So yes, it was 100% a strategic move on his part to get the story out.  But it’s not like he was sitting on the article waiting for a bad time to put it out.   Obviously no conspiracy.  And if he put a lot of work into the story, I don’t blame him for not waiting until the right time to publish.

 

One criticism that I do feel is legit - on Cowherd he was asked if the sources came to him or if he had to dig.  He didn’t answer the question but it sounded like he had to dig.  So I think it’s fair to wonder whether he started with a preconceived idea and sought out disgruntled players to support his thesis.  
 

This is where being critical works both ways.  I think it’s foolish to bring that the “sour grapes” angle among some of his sources (cough cough Quinton Spain) is not a factor.  So along with the conspiracy talk, it’s also foolish to believe that his “sources” didn’t have an agenda.  

 

Thats all fine.  Im talking about some conspiracy that the Chiefs paid him off. Thats ridiculous.

[PBF81]

30 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Are you saying you saw all of this coming prior to the start of the season? 

 

I never said all.  But I posted intimations that things weren't going to go right for McD this season.  Took tons of heat for it too.  

 

Frankly, the extent of it it, even before Dunne's piece, has surprised even me.  

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by PBF81

[Mark Vader]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I never said all.  But I posted intimations that things weren't going to go right for McD this season.  Took tons of heat for it too.  

 

 

What lead you to believe this?

 

Did you take heat because of your concerns or were you being a wise guy about it? Attitude has a part to play.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Mark Vader

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

What lead you to believe this?

 

Did you take heat because of your concerns or were you being a wise guy about it? Attitude has a part to play.

 

I'm happy to answer that via PMs.  I'm not sure I should post much more in the forum.  I've posted a lot in responding to others.  

 

I try to never be a wise guy.  LOL  I'm genuinely interested in sincere, substantive, and objective discussions.  I'm not a "see I told you so" type and I go out of my way to not gloat or the like.  I don't see why that's necessary and all it does is invite ad hominems.  

 

 

[Governor]

52 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Then spending six more seasons there without even winning another playoff game.  Makes you wonder if they would've won less, the same, or more SB's if they kept Dungy.

I lived in Tampa during the Gruden era. It was pretty awful. The players hated him, terrible drafts, weird situations with QBs, tried to get Chris Sims killed because he didn’t like him, list goes on and on.

 

He wrecked that team…..and quickly.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Governor