Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Trying to say that it's reasonable to assume the truck was a bribe from the wideouts to their position coach in order to absolve McDermott is really wild

 

I hesitate to speak for @HardyBoy, but to the extent that I've opined here, that's not what I'm saying.  And @HardyBoy has explictly said something to the effect of "I don't suppose for one minute the truck was intended as a bribe".  So it's kind of weird that you come back with this.

 

 Let's assume that the hearts of the WR were totally pure.  They LOVED their WR coach, they really felt he made a difference to them all, and they wanted to make him a gift he would truly appreciate.  So they hatched the idea to get him a truck.

 

The coach or coaches Dunne quoted saw it as an unmixed bag of Cool Beans "It's impossible for any sane person to watch this heartwarming video and not feel happy for Hall."

 

Well, I'd like to think I'm a sane person and when I watched that video, honest to God I felt horror that the NFL was going to gobsmack the Bills for violating Covid rules.  So that's one thing.  It seems a legit concern for a HC to feel at the time, given that the NFL forced Denver to play without QB.  What if the Bills being forced to play a game without any WR flashed before McDermott's eyes?  Would that be legit cause to be "not pleased" by Hall having them all over to his house?

 

The other point that is trying to be made here is that while the WR may have intended it as a gesture of pure love and respect, from the POV of a buck-stopping people manager, it factually has its problematic side, no matter how pure the intent was. 
 

And the stuff about why McDermott reacted negatively (jealous of a relationship he is mentally physically and psychologically incapable of) is purely the interviewee's opinion/interpretation, which I would call an attack on McD's character.  The part about "zero relationship with the offensive players, none" seems to be contradicted by several instances and pieces of information.

[JohnNord]

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

He sure sounds like a GM that supports his coach.  The brain trust here tells me that Beane will recommend firing him 

[Wayne Arnold]

16 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Except I'm very much not and if I was in McDs position I would be pissed as well.

 

Then you're both weirdos.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I hesitate to speak for @HardyBoy, but to the extent that I've opined here, that's not what I'm saying.  And @HardyBoy has explictly said something to the effect of "I don't suppose for one minute the truck was intended as a bribe".  So it's kind of weird that you come back with this.

 

 Let's assume that the hearts of the WR were totally pure.  They LOVED their WR coach, they really felt he made a difference to them all, and they wanted to make him a gift he would truly appreciate.  So they hatched the idea to get him a truck.

 

The coach or coaches Dunne quoted saw it as an unmixed bag of Cool Beans "It's impossible for any sane person to watch this heartwarming video and not feel happy for Hall."

 

Well, I'd like to think I'm a sane person and when I watched that video, honest to God I felt horror that the NFL was going to gobsmack the Bills for violating Covid rules.  So that's one thing.  It seems a legit concern for a HC to feel at the time, given that the NFL forced Denver to play without QB.  What if the Bills being forced to play a game without any WR flashed before McDermott's eyes?  Would that be legit cause to be "not pleased" by Hall having them all over to his house?

 

The other point that is trying to be made here is that while the WR may have intended it as a gesture of pure love and respect, from the POV of a buck-stopping people manager, it factually has its problematic side, no matter how pure the intent was. 
 

And the stuff about why McDermott reacted negatively (jealous of a relationship he is mentally physically and psychologically incapable of) is purely the interviewee's opinion/interpretation, which I would call an attack on McD's character.  The part about "zero relationship with the offensive players, none" seems to be contradicted by several instances and pieces of information.

I don't remember what the COVID rules were but they were outside

 

As far as gift giving being problematic the only factual basis I've seen is because you and he feel that it is

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

And Chad Hall leaving in a lateral move was just a coincidence right

 

@GoBills808, what crawled into you tonight?  You're usually quite a reasonable poster with takes I like to read and who can engage in a good discussion where points get acknowledged and debated. 

 

Today, your responses seem like they're firing right left and long of the post you're responding to, and either deliberately not acknowledging or unable to recognize the point.

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't remember what the COVID rules were but they were outside

 

It was said on social media that they were at a Christmas party at Hall's house when they brought him outside to see his truck.

So they were inside, at a party.

 

 

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

As far as gift giving being problematic the only factual basis I've seen is because you and he feel that it is

 

I Give Up.  If you started here, it might be worth trying to engage, but since you started with "you think it's a bribe" to @HardyBoy (AFTER he explicitly said he didn't for one moment believe that), and then moved on to "it's only problematic because you guys feel it is" (ignoring any basis we stated)....yeah, I'm Out.  You win. Feel good about that.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[Warcodered]

11 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I'm not going to assume that line was crossed because a group of guys coordinated to do something special. 

The group of guys all got together when they weren't supposed to at the coaches house, with the way the NFL was enforcing the Covid rules back then we could have gotten hosed on that. It wasn't exactly a small gift for a position coach.

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

No, we see the point. If you have nothing but pricks as coaches you won't get the best out of anybody. It's a balancing act. 

 

With this I agree.  But can you acknowledge that there's a lot of space between being a "prick" to your guys, and being so well liked that they gift you a truck?

[HardyBoy]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Then you're both weirdos.

 

People on my team wanted to give a gift card to my manager on Manager Day...I pushed back on that as well...gifts shouldn't flow up the chain, plus I know for a fact it would have made her uncomfortable and my company has rules against thinge like that.

 

I also get that he makes less than most of the players and you could argue that both are labor and not management, but Terry P is the one responsible for giving gifts to his employees/coaches, not the players.

 

Also, the number of players that go bankrupt after their careers end...it's because of stuff like this.

 

I think it's incredibly nice that they bought him that truck, but McD needs to handle that firmly and directly, which is what it sounds like he did... now I'm not sure if players give gifts to coaches already and this is just a huge one, but they really shouldn't because that can go down a very very slippery and dangerous slope very quickly.

 

My issue is that you might fully disagree with my point of view, but it honestly is valid, but the source never thought of it that way and applied his own perception on the situation, when McD was likely concerned about stuff like this.

[Arkady Renko]

4 hours ago, mannc said:

Even before he went to KC, Reid won a hell of a lot more than McDermott has.  He reached four straight NFC Championship games.  And he was eventually fired, despite a level of success far exceeding McDermott's, after which Philly finally got "over the hump".  

I believe he got fired after a 4-12 season.  Let’s let this season finish before making a decision. 

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

The group of guys all got together when they weren't supposed to at the coaches house, with the way the NFL was enforcing the Covid rules back then we could have gotten hosed on that. It wasn't exactly a small gift for a position coach.

 

It's amazing that Chad Hall is still employed. Does Doug Peterson know about this?! Accepting bribes from NFL players. What a menace!

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

I believe he got fired after a 4-12 season.  Let’s let this season finish before making a decision. 

 

Correct.  4-12 following 8-8 got Reid the boot in Philly.

 

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

It's amazing that Chad Hall is still employed. Does Doug Peterson know about this?! Accepting bribes from NFL players. What a menace!

 

Give it a rest. 

If you can't understand what's been several times explained by two people (that no one thinks the players intended it as a bribe), at least pretend.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[John from Riverside]

12 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

He sure sounds like a GM that supports his coach.  The brain trust here tells me that Beane will recommend firing him 

I have no doubt that Brandon would be saying positive things if they were planning on firing him
 

But I don’t think they are I think that Brandon understands the stupidity of having street winning seasons for five years and then firing a coach after one down year

 

I don’t think the McDermott should be the defensive coordinator. I think it puts too much on his plate.

 

He’s got some on his defensive staff that I think could fill that role some real up-and-coming coaches

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

My issue is that you might fully disagree with my point of view, but it honestly is valid, but the source never thought of it that way and applied his own perception on the situation, when McD was likely concerned about stuff like this.

 

That's the sticking point I have with what I've seen of Dunne's article.  He's clearly giving voice to one strong POV/interpretation about the situation - that McDermott was a dick who rained on a sweet, heartwarming gesture because he was, essentially, an insecure jellyfish who is mentally psychologically and physically able to form relationships with players.

 

But there are other POV on the situation, which is that Hall was violating Covid rules by having a gathering, and that to accept a valuable gift from men you're supposed to be impartially grading every week and giving input to the coaches about, has a problematic side.   Others can disagree, but those POV honestly exist.

And those aren't very hard to perceive, really, but Dunne neither presents them as his own considered thoughts, nor apparently spoke with anyone who might present them (or if he did, he edited them out).

 

 

[Mikie2times]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

With this I agree.  But can you acknowledge that there's a lot of space between being a "prick" to your guys, and being so well liked that they gift you a truck?

If this is the argument, I think the distance as far as how much Chad needed to move to center could very well be the same for Sean. The combination of the two likely provided balance. Any way you slice this Chad seemed to be one of our better young coaches and he’s no longer on the team. He was with us since 2017 and left to take a lateral role with the Jaguars. The story and the way it is portrayed seems very likely to be true. At the very least, I would expect a guy with the right temperament to handle this behind closed doors if he had a problem. Not in such a way where this impression could be left behind. 

[GoBills808]

18 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

@GoBills808, what crawled into you tonight?  You're usually quite a reasonable poster with takes I like to read and who can engage in a good discussion where points get acknowledged and debated. 

 

Today, your responses seem like they're firing right left and long of the post you're responding to, and either deliberately not acknowledging or unable to recognize the point.

 

It was said on social media that they were at a Christmas party at Hall's house when they brought him outside to see his truck.

So they were inside, at a party.

 

 

 

I Give Up.  If you started here, it might be worth trying to engage, but since you started with "you think it's a bribe" to @HardyBoy (AFTER he explicitly said he didn't for one moment believe that), and then moved on to "it's only problematic because you guys feel it is" (ignoring any basis we stated)....yeah, I'm Out.  You win. Feel good about that.

You haven't even read the article

[HardyBoy]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

It's amazing that Chad Hall is still employed. Does Doug Peterson know about this?! Accepting bribes from NFL players. What a menace!

 

Gotta love people gleefully tearing a person down because the sports team he coaches is making you disappointed.

 

I'm just confused by the entertainment people are taking from this, especially after he came out and said that he's really feeling hurt by it.

 

Celebrity gossip culture is gross and between this and people being excited Von Miller was potentially going to get suspended because he's not playing well on the field (I saw all the second reactions after people's initial reaction of saying that behavior is awful, then switching to "ooh, now he won't play because he stinks")

 

Just I'm not sure what happened after being so freaking proud of being a part of this fan base with the donations and the playoff drought ending and even during the drought the vast majority of people being reasonable if not passionate, and then how everyone said they were changed by the Hamlin injury, but just empty words and it's gotten worse.

 

Now people are gleefully sharing gossip with one another to justify absolutely ripping the joy out of someone who it's never justified to do to someone, but by all accounts is a really genuine person who maybe has some quirks in his personality.

 

Seriously, imagine what it must be like for him tonight, knowing all these people have awful things to say about you...he's a human and is trying his best on top of it... it's gross

[Beck Water]

46 minutes ago, QCity said:

Chad Hall is the gatekeeper to Stefon Diggs' future earnings?

 

Obviously Diggs was brought in as a star on a big contract, and has had top-of-the-league performance that makes him desirable to other teams and drives his contract negotiations.

 

But consider this: Hall was grading the WR position group in practice and games, and had input into decisions about whether and to what extent the group needed upgrades in FA and the draft. 

What if Hall's grades of Gabe Davis and Isaiah McKenzie influenced the team's decision to go into the 2022 season with Gabe Davis as the #2 and Isaiah McKenzie as the slot, with no improvements besides Jamison Crowder and a 5th round rookie?
 

What if Hall's grades during in-season practices influenced keeping McKenzie (part of the truck-buying crew) on the field and Shakir (not) on the bench?

 

I'm not saying that the receivers intended the truck as a bribe, or that Hall looked at McKenzie and consciously thought "that guy participated in giving me a truck so Imma grade him better". 

But it's been extensively studied that how people treat us does influence how we perceive them, so there's that.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

If this is the argument, I think the distance as far as how much Chad needed to move to center could very well be the same for Sean. The combination of the two likely provided balance. Any way you slice this Chad seemed to be one of our better young coaches and he’s no longer on the team. He was with us since 2017 and left to take a lateral role with the Jaguars. The story and the way it is portrayed seems very likely to be true. At the very least, I would expect a guy with the right temperament to handle this behind closed doors if he had a problem. Not in such a way where this impression could be left behind. 

I must of missed where McDermott was a co-author of this article.

[HardyBoy]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That's the sticking point I have with what I've seen of Dunne's article.  He's clearly giving voice to one strong POV/interpretation about the situation - that McDermott was a dick who rained on a sweet, heartwarming gesture because he was, essentially, an insecure jellyfish who is mentally psychologically and physically able to form relationships with players.

 

But there are other POV on the situation, which is that Hall was violating Covid rules by having a gathering, and that to accept a valuable gift from men you're supposed to be impartially grading every week and giving input to the coaches about, has a problematic side.   Others can disagree, but those POV honestly exist.

And those aren't very hard to perceive, really, but Dunne neither presents them as his own considered thoughts, nor apparently spoke with anyone who might present them (or if he did, he edited them out).

 

 

 

This, exactly this.

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You haven't even read the article

 

Right.  So I'm talking about a  part of it that was quoted - in fact, you quoted it.  What's your point?  To borrow your attitude here, are you saying you quoted it incorrectly or omitted a key part of the incident?