Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[RobbRiddick]

This article is nonsense. I've never in my life met a ginger narcissist

[hondo in seattle]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'll disagree.  In reading between the lines of the last six seasons, and remembering how futile our offense was in the first three from 2017 to 2019, worse than all of his predecessors prior going back to 2011, and with Allen at the helm instead of Fitzpatrick, Manuel, Orton and Taylor, the latter of which McD got less from, by nearly a TD/game, than Ryan did, and Ryan was hardly a genius much less an offensive genius either;  and considering that there were already "hotseat" conversations back in 2019 before Allen exploded, having all but nothing to do with McD, it all makes perfect sense.  

 

McD apologists and supporters bury their heads in the sand over his blatant avoidance of any real responsibility over how poorly but more importantly, inconsistently, his team plays.  Anywhere else in the league and it's the head coach's issue.  Here in Buffalo because of the "got us to the playoffs" thing, he's almost attained a god-like status that hasn't been earned given his sheer and utter underperformance in the playoffs.  

 

If you read the pieces, it says what others including myself have pointed out over time, that, he's not a bad guy in the normal sense, but his methodologies drive people away, despite his good intentions.  

 

The thing in the piece that resonates with me and no doubt many others, is that several people that Dunne claims to have interviewed, have expressed that the team needs to overcome McD rather than him contributing to the team's on-field success.  

 

That sentiment has been expressed here in these forums with no uncertainty by any number of people over time, so that's hardly a reach in terms of being factual.  It's actually a reach thinking the opposite.  

 

 

 

You didn't like McD before Dunne's article.  You don't like him now.

 

So I guess BBG is right: it didn't move the needle. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'll disagree.  In reading between the lines of the last six seasons, and remembering how futile our offense was in the first three from 2017 to 2019, worse than all of his predecessors prior going back to 2011, and with Allen at the helm instead of Fitzpatrick, Manuel, Orton and Taylor, the latter of which McD got less from, by nearly a TD/game, than Ryan did, and Ryan was hardly a genius much less an offensive genius either;  and considering that there were already "hotseat" conversations back in 2019 before Allen exploded, having all but nothing to do with McD, it all makes perfect sense.  

 

McD apologists and supporters bury their heads in the sand over his blatant avoidance of any real responsibility over how poorly but more importantly, inconsistently, his team plays.  Anywhere else in the league and it's the head coach's issue.  Here in Buffalo because of the "got us to the playoffs" thing, he's almost attained a god-like status that hasn't been earned given his sheer and utter underperformance in the playoffs.  

 

If you read the pieces, it says what others including myself have pointed out over time, that, he's not a bad guy in the normal sense, but his methodologies drive people away, despite his good intentions.  

 

The thing in the piece that resonates with me and no doubt many others, is that several people that Dunne claims to have interviewed, have expressed that the team needs to overcome McD rather than him contributing to the team's on-field success.  

 

That sentiment has been expressed here in these forums with no uncertainty by any number of people over time, so that's hardly a reach in terms of being factual.  It's actually a reach thinking the opposite.  

 

 

So, in short you and others have read the piece and come away feeling reaffirmed with what you had felt before the piece. Correct? That was my point.

[Peter]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Damn this is prophetic:

 

Those who’ve worked with the head coach on a day-to-day basis predicted all of this — months in advance — because they’ve seen how McDermott operates on a day-to-day basis. How tangibly nervous he gets in close games. How he has never truly appreciated his gift from the football gods: Josh Allen. How he’s quick to blame everyone but himself in defeat. That’s why one coach — in June — began by asking a simple question: “If they fail again this year? What does ownership do with Sean?”

 

Three seconds later, he answered his own hypothetical.

 

“Next year if they fail, you know who’ll be the first person he serves up? Ken Dorsey.”

 

The coach wasn’t quite sure how McDermott would manage to put Dorsey’s head on a stick. After all, it’s the head coach’s beloved defense that has melted in four straight postseason losses. The honeymoon period with fans ended a long time ago — pointing a finger at his breadwinning quarterback, again, surely wouldn’t work. Yet even back in June, this assistant knew his old boss would find a way to deflect blame.

 

“Watch,” he said, “if they sputter at all during this year, the narrative’s going to be the offense.”

 

And that is exactly what happened (he threw Dorsey under the bus) and various people here and on WGR fell for it.

 

McClappy fired the wrong coordinator. Although I had given McClappy the benefit of the doubt even though I was never a big fan, once he fired Dorsey it became clear to me that he is a snake and that all of his talk about accountability and culture etc. is pure BS.

 

The good news is that McClappy has no one else to throw under the bus.

 

I really hope that ownership does the right thing in the off season.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Peter

[TheyCallMeAndy]

7 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

This is where I’m at.  He’s a good coach.  He will succeed somewhere else.  I also question whether he’s the guy to get us where we need to be.  

 

My hesitation in blowing him out is that we have to have an idea of his replacement before the move is made.  I’m not all set on Ben Johnson or Bobby Slowik because they haven’t been in the big seat before and there’s on-the-job training that I’m not sure we have time for.   My preference for next year, and others will complain about this, is Brian Daboll.  He checks all the boxes - HC experience, respected in the locker room, excellent relationship with Josh, willing to accept criticism and input, knows the culture around here, and is wound way less tightly than McDermott.  All of those things, in my view, are essential in the next hire. 

I’m leaning forwards what you are saying, but I don’t think Dabs gets canned next year. They will likely have a first round pick rookie QB, the owner will give him at least a year or two to work with him. 
 

I think the path leads us to Joe Brady. He’s going to be an OC next year, be it with us or someone else. Coming out of his work with Joe Burrow, he was viewed as a future HC. Next year is Brady’s 3rd on staff, second (ish) as an OC. He will have a working relationship with every coach on the roster, worked directly with Allen, and won’t clean house. 
 

The hype and expectation bar for him as an OC is sky high, but if he matches it he can be our guy. I’d be willing to bet Pegs doesn’t want to let another DaBoll out of the building. 

[2003Contenders]

While this piece was definitely a hatchet job on Dunne's part (appears he didn't even attempt to seek out alternative viewpoints), there is still plenty here that corroborates what many of us have suspected regarding McD's over meddling. 

 

Reminds me a bit of the Tom Coughin situation when he was with the Giants. Ultimately, some veterans went to him and voiced their frustrations. To his credit, Coughlin was open to their criticism and took some steps to get better. The Giants went onto win 2 super bowl under him. Wonder if something like that could happen here? 

Maybe instead of player-only meetings, a few key vets could have a intervention meeting with McD? 

Maybe Diggs tried to do that himself in the preseason and was sent home for his efforts? 

 

Maybe something like that DID happen when Dorsey was fired as the offense under Brady has been more fluid and Josh has looked more like the old Josh. Or, maybe Brady and Josh sensing that McD is not going to fire a 2nd OC decided to "F McDermott -- let's do things our way!"

[LEBills]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

 

 

Hahahahahahhaa 

See I knew this was made up…we all know McDermott doesn’t care about the OL.

 

In all seriousness, I’m sure some of the article has truth to it, some is likely embellished or fabricated by his sources. In the end it’ll be the same, those that don’t like McD will hold it as proof and those who do will dispute things. He had a big damning article about Aaron Rodgers a few years ago too which followed a similar mold.

 

I won’t be reading it myself. McD has fired two offensive coordinators and supposedly the other, Daboll, hated McD by the end of it. Frazier decided to leave and McD didn’t have anyone he wanted to fill that roll. That to me does seem like someone who is probably difficult to work with and it will probably be his downfall…Stories making him sound like a lunatic tho for $8, nah I’m good.

[bouds]

41 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I don’t think it’s that.  The Bills have long had a stance that they only give press access to media organization.  They will not give access to bloggers or independent writers like Dunne.   For example, year ago Erik Turner from Cover 1 tried to access credentials and was rejected multiple times.   Even Jerry Sullivan and Bucky Gleason were rejected when they worked for the Buffalo Maven LOL
 

Not every franchise operates this way.  I think Dunne’s vitriol is fueled by not being getting media access.  

Got it, thanks for the info John!

[JohnNord]

15 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'll disagree.  In reading between the lines of the last six seasons, and remembering how futile our offense was in the first three from 2017 to 2019, worse than all of his predecessors prior going back to 2011, and with Allen at the helm instead of Fitzpatrick, Manuel, Orton and Taylor, the latter of which McD got less from, by nearly a TD/game, than Ryan did, and Ryan was hardly a genius much less an offensive genius either;  and considering that there were already "hotseat" conversations back in 2019 before Allen exploded, having all but nothing to do with McD, it all makes perfect sense.  

 

McD apologists and supporters bury their heads in the sand over his blatant avoidance of any real responsibility over how poorly but more importantly, inconsistently, his team plays.  Anywhere else in the league and it's the head coach's issue.  Here in Buffalo because of the "got us to the playoffs" thing, he's almost attained a god-like status that hasn't been earned given his sheer and utter underperformance in the playoffs.  

 

If you read the pieces, it says what others including myself have pointed out over time, that, he's not a bad guy in the normal sense, but his methodologies drive people away, despite his good intentions.  

 

The thing in the piece that resonates with me and no doubt many others, is that several people that Dunne claims to have interviewed, have expressed that the team needs to overcome McD rather than him contributing to the team's on-field success.  

 

That sentiment has been expressed here in these forums with no uncertainty by any number of people over time, so that's hardly a reach in terms of being factual.  It's actually a reach thinking the opposite.  

 

 

 

But it's not possible that a strong-willed person like McD would double down on his methodologies?  
 

 

It’s the same narrative Ty has been preaching for years.  It’s not surprising that this article is a reflection of that.  Some people have called into question his bias, and rightfully so.  

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I’m leaning forwards what you are saying, but I don’t think Dabs gets canned next year. They will likely have a first round pick rookie QB, the owner will give him at least a year or two to work with him. 
 

I think the path leads us to Joe Brady. He’s going to be an OC next year, be it with us or someone else. Coming out of his work with Joe Burrow, he was viewed as a future HC. Next year is Brady’s 3rd on staff, second (ish) as an OC. He will have a working relationship with every coach on the roster, worked directly with Allen, and won’t clean house. 
 

The hype and expectation bar for him as an OC is sky high, but if he matches it he can be our guy. I’d be willing to bet Pegs doesn’t want to let another DaBoll out of the building. 

I’ll add this.  The Diggs piece is important, too.  If he’s going to be here, and he likely will be on next year’s roster, whomever is the coach has to be able to handle that personality.  From what I understand he is a handful.  I’ll leave that point with this:  Maddy Glab was right.  Take it for what it’s worth.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

I’ll add this.  The Diggs piece is important, too.  If he’s going to be here, and he likely will be on next year’s roster, whomever is the coach has to be able to handle that personality.  From what I understand he is a handful.  I’ll leave that point with this:  Maddy Glab was right.  Take it for what it’s worth.  

I’m sure, if Diggs likes Brady I think it will be ok. At the end of the day I think he cares about winning. It was reported his frustrations last year were about Dorsey and the direction of the offense. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

He is well-sourced.  Also very biased.  See his work on Aaron Rodgers.  

 

People are hammering his sources.

 

Lots of posters here have hammered Aaron Rodgers, ... to be fair.  I'm sure some of the same ones complaining about it. 

 

Just sayin'

1 hour ago, Heitz said:

 

I think it's odd to say Dorsey was a scapegoat, he just wasn't good and his job and had to go.  If we were scoring 40, but giving up 45 and he was fired, he'd be a scapegoat.  Now he's just a guy who got fired. 🤷‍♂️

 

There was also some discussion of McD "holding himself accountable" and what that even means, or looks like.  Is he firing himself?  I'd argue he is holding himself accountable by firing Dorsey - he's the one that hired the guy, so to have to swallow your pride and say I "F'd up, dude has to go, so I'm going to fire him" is him being responsible for the problem and trying to find a fix.  

 

He did fine on the beginning of the season?

 

What changed?

 

Did you happen to notice that McDoesn'tKnow's "complimentary football" MO emerged during that time?  

 

 

[Steptide]

I've worked for control freak bosses. Sometimes it can be a good thing. It's not always bad. Having said that, I find it hard to believe that McDermott preaches this culture stuff, but then tells a veteran o linemen that he "doesn't like his shoes". Just seems far fetched or taken way out of context 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Damn this is prophetic:

 

Those who’ve worked with the head coach on a day-to-day basis predicted all of this — months in advance — because they’ve seen how McDermott operates on a day-to-day basis. How tangibly nervous he gets in close games. How he has never truly appreciated his gift from the football gods: Josh Allen. How he’s quick to blame everyone but himself in defeat. That’s why one coach — in June — began by asking a simple question: “If they fail again this year? What does ownership do with Sean?”

 

Three seconds later, he answered his own hypothetical.

 

“Next year if they fail, you know who’ll be the first person he serves up? Ken Dorsey.”

 

The coach wasn’t quite sure how McDermott would manage to put Dorsey’s head on a stick. After all, it’s the head coach’s beloved defense that has melted in four straight postseason losses. The honeymoon period with fans ended a long time ago — pointing a finger at his breadwinning quarterback, again, surely wouldn’t work. Yet even back in June, this assistant knew his old boss would find a way to deflect blame.

 

“Watch,” he said, “if they sputter at all during this year, the narrative’s going to be the offense.”

 

This right here already completely discredits this entire biased hit piece, and I am not even a McD excuse maker.  In fact, if Bills miss the playoffs I think McD should be fired because 12 men on the field and end of Philly decisions (timeout on the FG kick, not trying with Allen and 20 seconds with 1 TO), and holding onto Dorsey 2 weeks too long.  

 

But for the last time, Dorsey EARNED his firing.  He isn't a scape goat.  6 weeks prior to his firing against the weakest part of our schedule that included 3 of the worst teams in the NFL at the time we played them, the Dorsey led offense averaged 20.5 PPG, we went 2-4 and could have easily been 0-6 if not for 2 failed final plays by our 2 opponents we beat.  I said it all offseason, coming back again with Dorsey was GAMBLING on Allen and Diggs prime with an unproven OC who had lots of issues in his first year and too easily out coached.  

 

First 2 games after Dorsey, offense is avg 33 ppg against 2 tough defenses, including one (Jets) the Ken Dorsey led offense averaged 17 PPG against and was 1-2 with both losses to Zack Wilson.  

 

For someone to pretend Dorsey was a scapegoat or premeditated scape goats is utterly absurd.  In fact, McD's BIGGEST mistake was NOT firing Dorsey sooner.  He was out of his league last year at OC, and he was clearly out of his league this year again and McD held on to the point where Bills are basically now in an 8 game playoff to try and make the SB as another loss would make it very very difficult to get into the playoffs, let alone win 3 games to get to the SB.  
 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[hondo in seattle]

1 minute ago, wettlaufer said:

 

Welp, there are good journalists and bad. There are good and bad soldiers. I worked in journalism long ago in Buffalo and I can tell you Dunne is 100% above-board and not in it for the clicks. He's one of the best in the business at human interest stories and he went far above and beyond to turn out a fantastic piece. The guy you dealt with in KSA obviously sucked at his job. 

 

Sadly, my view of journalism is that it's one of the lower-integrity professions in America.  I've read too many bad, one-sided articles. 

 

I know there are also good journalists, and I loved the human-interest stories Dunne did when in Buffalo.  But, other than that, I have no knowledge or opinion of the man.  I don't know if he's capable of writing a hit job or not.  I don't know if he has any personal animus toward McD and is unbiased.  I'm just not going to accept anything a journalist says as gospel truth.  

 

You seem to know Dunne better than I do and hold him to be credible.  I respect that.  I'm just not in the same place.  

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

McDermott was the guy who engineered the turnaround in 2017-19. That doesn't mean he is anything more than another one  of the many others who've come down the pipes and couldn't transition. He'll either figure out how to get to the playoffs and get this thing headed in the right direction again or he won't. Even the most ardent McDermott supporters should realize that the trend is not good, and this could continue for a couple more years. If he doesn't figure out where things have gotten off track and correct he'll be gone in time!

Edited December 7, 2023 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I’m sure, if Diggs likes Brady I think it will be ok. At the end of the day I think he cares about winning. It was reported his frustrations last year were about Dorsey and the direction of the offense. 

The article says Diggs can't stand McDermott, makes no mention of his feelings on Dorsey

 

So if accurate that would seem to be the source of his frustrations

[JackKemp]

I'm simply not buying what Dunne is selling here. The article seems to want us to think there is a toxic culture in the organization. How does that jive with players wanting to play here? How does that jive with year in year out winning? How does that jive with players that come back to play here? When a free agent signs they always site the culture as one of the reasons why they decided to play for the Bills. I truly believe we are all going to regret the bashing of McDermott. The best organizations find a good coach and stick with them.

Edited December 7, 2023 by JackKemp

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Heitz said:

 

I think it's odd to say Dorsey was a scapegoat, he just wasn't good and his job and had to go.  If we were scoring 40, but giving up 45 and he was fired, he'd be a scapegoat.  Now he's just a guy who got fired. 🤷‍♂️

 

There was also some discussion of McD "holding himself accountable" and what that even means, or looks like.  Is he firing himself?  I'd argue he is holding himself accountable by firing Dorsey - he's the one that hired the guy, so to have to swallow your pride and say I "F'd up, dude has to go, so I'm going to fire him" is him being responsible for the problem and trying to find a fix.  

 

So how did Dorsey's offense come out firing for four games then?  

 

Why was it that "complimentary football" only entered the equation after that?  

 

A wise person would question what's going on behind the scenes.  

 

 

[Yobogoya!]

12 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

If you read them, even just the free stuff, which is all I did, much of what you tough on via implication is addressed.  

 

I did read the free bits. Some of it definitely matches up with the public perception of McD, and I certainly can't say some of it isn't "concerning," at least insofar as what it appears McDermott's vision is for the team and the viability of that vision to translate into a championship. 

 

Again, I think if you poll former players and staff from any coaching regime that's been in place for, say, 3+ years without a championship you'd find enough material for an article in similar tone. 

 

Doesn't mean the content of the article is untrue or that it's substance should be ignored. But it's also a lot easier to publish this article now as we're sitting 6-6 than it would be if we had closed out a few more games and landed 9-3 instead, I think.