Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[Mango]

32 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Maybe.  The 2014 Marrone-led Bills went to 9-7 on the strength of a #4 overall defense.  They had a fading FredEx as their leading rusher, and Watkins (best season as a pro), and not much else as weapons. 

The OC was nominally Nathaniel Hackett, whom Aaron Rodgers likes a lot and who got a chance to flame out as the Denver HC based on that liking.  He hasn't done a lot otherwise, which one could attribute to having Blake Bortles as his QB in Jacksonville and Zach Wilson with the Jets. 

 

Or one could look at it as, Hackett has yet to demonstrate that he can develop a QB nor work with a QB who showed success elsewhere (Wilson).

 

I personally think this kind of revisionist speculation is pointless, and certainly debatable, but with the huge growth in Sports Betting it wouldn't shock me if you could actually make such a bet.

By the way, a number of lines of evidence point to Marrone having a pretty giant ego, at least while he was with the Bills.  Remember "Saint Doug"?  And there was a reporter who wrote about a wierd private interview session he had with Marrone after publishing some info that made Marrone look bad, that had shades of the "Godfather" about it.  I seem to recall several articles at the time.

 

 

 

Marrone washed out of the league pretty quickly after Buffalo. 

Terry Pegula tried to keep him.

[YoloinOhio]

I really don’t care what anyone says about him as long as we win (which we arent and that’s why this is all being written about now). The stories about belchick as he was winning SB after SB were probably no better: most HCs are obnoxious control freaks. When they win it’s fine when they don’t it’s not. So again I don’t care either way he could be the chillest guy ever like McDaniel and lose too. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by YoloinOhio

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

There was.  Maybe you missed my post

 

Watkins, Robert Woods, Goodwin, Chandler, Jackson.  Hell Spiller was on that team lol.  Not a great back I know but Gailey got a lot out of him.  Thats probably a better group than some of the crap Allen has had here.  Even the oline was decent.

 

I'll grant you Bobby Trees.  He had a good year, and I loved him as a player.

 

Goodwin had 1 catch on 9 targets that year, so I don't think he supports your argument; I don't remember the story with Spiller, if he was injured or what, but also not contributing much that year.

 

Chandler for me falls squarely into what Beane said once about "we never got to a point where opponents said we got to stop their TE from going off"
 

 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I really don’t care what anyone says about him as long as we win (which we arent and that’s why this is all being written about now). The stories about belchick as he was winning SB after SB were probably no better: most HCs are obnoxious control freaks. When they win it’s fine when they don’t it’s not. So again I don’t care either way he could be the chillest guy ever like McDaniel and lose too. 

Hell the narrative about Belichick now is that without Brady there putting up with it and them winning his ridiculous hardass schtick would wear pretty thin and they wouldn't be such a FA destination anymore. It was pretty hilarious watching that player basically twitter-GM calling all these players to come to the team and none of them did.

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Marrone washed out of the league pretty quickly after Buffalo. 

Terry Pegula tried to keep him.

 

Um.....Doug Marrone spent 5 years as the HC of the Jacksonville Jaguars after Buffalo, and after a 1 year gap, got employed as the OL coach of the NO saints.

 

I 'get it' that people have different values of "washed out quickly", but by NFL standards, 5 years as the HC of another team ain't quick.

[Billsfan1972]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

"ST lost game 1".  You mean the season opener Jets game where Allen threw 3 INTs and fumbled?  Any idea what the W-L stats are when a team has twice as many turnovers as their opponent? 

 

OK, I'm outta here.  Not doing this with someone who comes to that conclusion about that game.

 

Just for the record, I have never said the defense played well against Jacksonville ("what a wonderous game the Bills D played allowing Jax 500+ yards?"); it is logically consistent to feel the the defense has overall played well and kept us in games while the offense wasn't scoring this season overall, while not extolling defensive performance in one specific game.

In the Jax game, there was an almost 2:1 edge in TOP for Jax. 

Yes Allen was awful vs. The Jets, but the winning points came in OT courtesy of the ST, which was the point. 

 

When you leave the field with the lead <2 mins, the expectation is that the Defense will do it's job.  

 

Another thread where this has been debated over and over.

[GunnerBill]

35 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I know you have a background as a journalist, but I would have guessed it was sourced over more like a year.  I would guess that as Dunne talks to people, he collects notes and quotes on what they say on several topics and of further sources to follow-up with, and collects them in literal or figurative "folders" which he reviews periodically in view of likely current topical interest.

 

But are you saying that Dunne timed the release deliberately to damage the Bills season and to maximize the possibility that McDermott gets fired?  Because journalists who know him have spoken out that Dunne is not a guy with an "axe to grind", but timing an article's release to maximize damage to his home town team's season and its head coach, kind of would sound like an ax.  If I'm misinterpreting you, please do clarify and correct.

 

Yea I meant 2-3 months minimum. Sorry was on a bus when I wrote it. It could well have been an ongoing - i.e. something you keep coming back to and bring together over the course of 6, 9, 12 months.

 

On timing I think it sort of makes sense in terms of where we are in the season and if I were being generous I might say just that. But personally I suspect timed to do maximum damage, yes. I think he does have axes to grind... or (I should say) is very close to people who do - Doug W and Russ B. That isn't the same as me doubting the authenticity of the sources btw. I think it is substantially an accurate piece. But I sense just a touch of vengence in the timing.

[Beck Water]

18 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I really don’t care what anyone says about him as long as we win (which we arent and that’s why this is all being written about now). The stories about belchick as he was winning SB after SB were probably no better: most HCs are obnoxious control freaks. When they win it’s fine when they don’t it’s not. So again I don’t care either way he could be the chillest guy ever like McDaniel and lose too. 

 

From what I know, that's 100% correct.  HC in the NFL are highly competitive and driven and have strong egos.  That translates to "control freak" for many. 

 

But being a HC these days is also about motivating people, which requires being able to relate to them successfully.  If McDermott's people-skills are as bizarrely bad and he's as actually lacking in personal accountability as the impression people are giving from Dunne's article, it's very difficult to imagine him having a 7 year record of 109-68 in the regular season as the Bills HC and 5 years of playoffs while being so out of touch and unable to relate.

Caveat that I AM one of those who have not read the entire article.

 

And I will also add that being a solid HC, and having the ultimate ability to be a SB winning HC, are different things - but we have seen examples where someone spent a long time as the former before becoming the latter.  My jury is out on whether McDermott has, or can develop as, that ultimate warrior SB winning HC, but there's a lot of room between that POV and the feeling that he's a bizarre out of touch coach who can't relate appropriately to players.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Beck Water

[BuffaloRebound]

29 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

“Me and Sean got along great,” Smith said. “No one wants the Buffalo Bills to be better. No one wants to do it right more than Sean McDermott. He’s not that guy that’s going to be meeting a player for a beer after practice or after the game. He’s a worker, man. He’s a worker. He’s the boss. He’s obsessed with growing and being great at the boulders and not the pebbles.

“The only thing that matters is being consistent, being genuine, and having a damn good locker room.”

Added DiMarco: “He didn’t serve in the military, but he has that wrestler’s mindset of just: ‘You’re part of a team, look like the rest of everybody, go out, play your ass off and celebrate and do whatever you want after the game, after we get the job done. But until the job’s done, enough with the cute *****. Go succeed.’ Which you can’t argue with.”

Thank you.  Appreciate this.  

So the only 2 willing to be named spoke positively about mcdermott.  Wonder how they feel about their quotes being used in a story that concludes McDermott doesn’t have what it takes.  

Edited December 8, 2023 by BuffaloRebound

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

Yea I meant 2-3 months minimum. Sorry was on a bus when I wrote it. It could well have been an ongoing - i.e. something you keep coming back to and bring together over the course of 6, 9, 12 months.

 

On timing I think it sort of makes sense in terms of where we are in the season and if I were being generous I might say just that. But personally I suspect timed to do maximum damage, yes. I think he does have axes to grind... or (I should say) is very close to people who do - Doug W and Russ B. That isn't the same as me doubting the authenticity of the sources btw. I think it is substantially an accurate piece. But I sense just a touch of vengence in the timing.

 

OK, thanks for answering, fair enough.  People who know Dunne do say "no", but your point about him being very close to people with well-honed axes is germaine.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Thank you.  Appreciate this.  

So the only 2 willing to be named spoke positively about mcdermott.  Wonder how they feel about their quotes being used in a story that concludes McDermott doesn’t have what it takes.  

Thank you.  Appreciate this.  

So the only 2 willing to be named spoke positively about mcdermott.  Wonder how they feel about their quotes being used in a story that concludes McDermott doesn’t have what it takes.  

Why would they feel one way or another about it?

[Peter]

2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

None of those coaches had a player like Josh Allen as their quarterback.

 

Pieces like this are what happens when a head coach is not getting the job done and an article comes out saying there's no chance he gets fired after the season.

 

If falling short on the field isn't going to result in changes then we have to go a different route.

 

Bingo

 

 

[MJS]

23 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

posted it in the game thread but there's a lot of relevance for this thread too.

People can complain about Sean McDermott as a coach if they want. There are plenty of examples of times he has screwed up on the football field.

 

But attacking his character? Attacking him as a human being? It is disgraceful. It has always been clear that he is a good person, a good leader, with a thoughtful, methodical approach to how he leads the team. As he said himself, he is not perfect and I'm sure he has made mistakes over the past years as a coach.

 

For those who want to believe all the garbage spewed by unnamed sources and biased crusaders, you are disgraceful.

 

I support Sean McDermott and I hope he proves all the ankle biting haters wrong.

[TheFunPolice]

After processing this for a day, I've come to these conclusions.

 

First, I'm truly shocked. McDermott is now a trending meme for using the perpetuators of one of the nation's greatest tragedies to make some clumsy point about leadership. People are dunking on McDermott the person, not the anti-clutch HC. Nobody saw that coming. 

 

This entire episode sort of shatters the façade of an in control, serious leader, which is really McDermott's greatest strength. Turns out players are trying not to laugh at him while he makes his incredibly dumb speeches, and now he and the Bills are a national laughingstock. 

 

All that said, none of this matters, because we have Josh Allen and he will lead the team to enough wins to keep McDermott employed. We are basically the Norv Turner/ Phillip Rivers Chargers teams. Great QB who has to play with an anchor at HC. That's my prediction for Allen's career. I have zero hope that ownership figures it out and gets Allen an offensive minded HC while he is still in his prime. 

 

We're just going to have to overcome McDermott to win. He's apparently an insecure, Michael Scott type who means well but makes speeches that make him look like a clown, freezes in big moments, has to get all of the credit and none of the blame, and wants to hamstring Josh Allen's game. 

 

But he's not getting fired. The owner loves him and he has had enough success here W/L wise, and will continue to as long as Allen is here. 

 

And he will never live this down. It's been 20+ years, but a lot of people still have raw emotions about 9/11. This is the only team that actually plays in NY State, and I would expect a less than warm welcome for Sean the next time the Bills play at Met Life. 

 

I do expect the team to make the playoffs, which will of course be used as a reason to keep McDermott. Eventually the issues with Diggs only end one way: him off the team. Then we have to fill the WR spot in rounds 5-7, because we'll draft a DB or LB in rounds 1-3 who McDermott won't play next season because he's not a veteran player. 

 

Rinse and repeat. 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[Roundybout]

 

[DrDawkinstein]

18 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I really don’t care what anyone says about him as long as we win (which we arent and that’s why this is all being written about now). The stories about belchick as he was winning SB after SB were probably no better: most HCs are obnoxious control freaks. When they win it’s fine when they don’t it’s not. So again I don’t care either way he could be the chillest guy ever like McDaniel and lose too. 

 

Ehh, maybe. But most of what I see about Belichick from former players is how funny he actually is. Almost the opposite of McD who has a nice, friendly public demeanor but can't relate to his players. Belichick has a gruff reputation, but behind the scenes players think he's one of the funniest guys of all time.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-bill-belichick-humor-funny-ezekiel-elliott-juju-smith-schuster

Quote

Belichick, who has led New England to six Super Bowl victories, has gained a reputation for showing very little emotion publicly. It's not that he has no feelings, but rather him just choosing to remain more stoic than other coaches. With the success he has had over the years, it's hard to argue with his persona.

Behind closed doors, though, Belichick apparently is a different, more outgoing person with ... a great sense of humor? Running back Ezekiel Elliott, who signed with the Patriots two weeks ago, revealed that he was surprised by how funny Belichick actually is.

 

https://www.irishstar.com/sport/other-sports/bill-belichicks-funniest-moments-new-30364964

Quote

Despite his reputation as a no-nonsense coach, Belichick has shown a playful side when interacting with his players. He has been known to engage in lighthearted banter and practical jokes, creating a more relaxed atmosphere within the team.

 

One famous incident involved quarterback Tom Brady. During a practice session, Belichick sneakily replaced Brady's helmet with a noticeably larger one, leaving the entire team in stitches. This prank not only lightened the mood but also fostered a sense of camaraderie within the team, reminding everyone that even the most serious of coaches can have fun.

 

https://theathletic.com/2889665/2021/10/29/its-fun-at-gunpoint-the-comedy-stylings-of-bill-belichick/

Quote

Bill Belichick has been called many things during his 22 seasons as the Patriots coach: a genius, a grouch, the GOAT. But funny? Just wait until you read the stories from 15 of his former players …

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ehh, maybe. But most of what I see about Belichick from former players is how funny he actually is. Almost the opposite of McD who has a nice, friendly public demeanor but can't relate to his players. Belichick has a gruff reputation, but behind the scenes players think he's one of the funniest guys of all time.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-bill-belichick-humor-funny-ezekiel-elliott-juju-smith-schuster

 

https://www.irishstar.com/sport/other-sports/bill-belichicks-funniest-moments-new-30364964

 

https://theathletic.com/2889665/2021/10/29/its-fun-at-gunpoint-the-comedy-stylings-of-bill-belichick/

 

I've heard Edelman say similar things on podcasts recently fwiw

[TheFunPolice]

I'm also open for the first time ever to actually believing that Buffalo sports teams are cursed. 

 

If there was one man who you would never in a million years expect to become the subject of national ridicule for something off the field it's Sean McDermott. 

 

 

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Um.....Doug Marrone spent 5 years as the HC of the Jacksonville Jaguars after Buffalo, and after a 1 year gap, got employed as the OL coach of the NO saints.

 

I 'get it' that people have different values of "washed out quickly", but by NFL standards, 5 years as the HC of another team ain't quick.

 

He went walked away from HC of the Bills to become the OL coach of the Jags, who at the time were terrible. Had an opportunity as interim, to which they kept him and he had 1 "good" season, where he finished 10-6 carried by the defense. Marrone ultimately finished his time in Jacksonville with a .348 record. Had he been with a franchise with a real owner he would have lost his job much sooner than he did. 

Afterwards he has strictly been an OL coach. 

Marrone 100% flamed out of the NFL HC circle. 
 

[Warcodered]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I meant 2-3 months minimum. Sorry was on a bus when I wrote it. It could well have been an ongoing - i.e. something you keep coming back to and bring together over the course of 6, 9, 12 months.

 

On timing I think it sort of makes sense in terms of where we are in the season and if I were being generous I might say just that. But personally I suspect timed to do maximum damage, yes. I think he does have axes to grind... or (I should say) is very close to people who do - Doug W and Russ B. That isn't the same as me doubting the authenticity of the sources btw. I think it is substantially an accurate piece. But I sense just a touch of vengence in the timing.

I think at least one of the quotes and the things he wrote around it were something he hung on to for a while. The part around the whole 13 seconds thing he's quoting someone and says that they're currently happy on another team and the way the whole thing looks it's probably either Levi Wallace or Jerry Hughes but neither of them are even starting anymore. So it's like he wrote it a while ago and didn't think that things might not be going so great for them anymore.