Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again are you one of those going on about what a wonderous game the Bills D played allowing Jax 500+ yards?  Yea yea yea injuries, but 500 yards!!!!!  

 

Where on earth do you get that from anything I've written on this board at any time?

[thenorthremembers]

McDermott is doing a hell of a job in his press conference.   Outside of some of the results of his coaching stint here, he's shown great character.   

[Scott7975]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Maybe.  The 2014 Marrone-led Bills went to 9-7 on the strength of a #4 overall defense.  They had a fading FredEx as their leading rusher, and Watkins (best season as a pro), and not much else as weapons. 

 

I'd say definitely a playoff team with Allen.  The Bills also had Robert Woods and Goodwin.  Woods is a suberbowl winning WR and very good.  Goodwin is a speedster that Allen probably would have lit up.  Goodwin wasn't all thaaat good and made of glass but I still think with Allens cannon and his speed it would have been a pretty good connection.  Also Chandler at TE who isn't great but a 500 yard guy. Not terrible.  Pretty decent lineup if you ask me.

[mannc]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I'd say definitely a playoff team with Allen.  The Bills also had Robert Woods and Goodwin.  Woods is a suberbowl winning WR and very good.  Goodwin is a speedster that Allen probably would have lit up.  Goodwin wasn't all thaaat good and made of glass but I still think with Allens cannon and his speed it would have been a pretty good connection.  Also Chandler at TE who isn't great but a 500 yard guy. Not terrible.  Pretty decent lineup if you ask me.

Goodwin and Bobby Woods still in the league…not sure about Sammy

[Scott7975]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

There are zero named sources and to expect differently is naive

actually there are some named sources.  I'd have to go re-read the article but there were some players named.

[Billsfan1972]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Not the same thing. What you're referring to as not winning anything is a Super Bowl. They have won plenty together in the regular season and in the playoffs. Herbert/Staley has been together for 3 years and had one playoff game and a huge collapse in that one game. You wanna talk about losing one score games, Staley is the king

Because McDermott is better than any of those guys. I would take McDermott without Allen than any of those other coaches with what they had. 

Thank you for your OPINION  Duly noted.🤣

[Beck Water]

15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

That's my point. They did that well only based on their top Defense. Throw in a real QB, let alone a dual threat like Allen, and we have at least 2 more wins (Denver and Raiders) which puts us in the playoffs. And away we go.

 

Of course it's speculation, and pointless. But it has as much creedance as any statement saying none of the other coaches would do better with Allen on their team. We all lived the drought. We all should know/remember our biggest issue was not being able to find a QB.

 

My point is that there wasn't a lot of talent on that offense, and that the OC in  name/HC do not have a track record of getting the best out of their QB - and rookie Allen was a very raw talent who needed his energy and competitiveness to be channeled and developed.  Specifically, there are cases where you have a situation where a QB's performance drops markedly under one coach, then revives markedly under another, and in the case of Russ Wilson and Hackett you see that.  I guess you could also argue that perhaps he got the most out of Blake Bortles in '16-'18.

 

And just for the record, the bolded is nothing I've said or that should reasonably be inferred from what I've said.

 

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

actually there are some named sources.  I'd have to go re-read the article but there were some players named.

 

I think it would fall within "fair use"  to share that and what they said.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Beck Water

[BuffaloRebound]

14 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

There are zero named sources and to expect differently is naive

Why?  We aren’t dealing with nuclear secrets here and classified information.  If you’re going to crap on a guy at least have the balls to put your name to it.  

[Billsfan1972]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Where on earth do you get that from anything I've written on this board at any time?

Because you went on about how admirably the defense has played.  They have given up late leads (<2 minutes) in 3 games the Bills lost, didn't make that one stop needed at the end to give Bills a chance when down a score (and ST lost game 1).

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

actually there are some named sources.  I'd have to go re-read the article but there were some players named.

that's true

 

he quotes Lee Smith and Pat Dimarco directly

[CincyBillsFan]

44 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said:

Didn't Ken Dorsey fail this season?  I think that quote is ridiculous.   Also he starts with a quote, inserts his opinion, and ends with a quote like the entire narrative was from a reliable source.   His writing style is deceptive IMO.  I was hoping for a more fact based article where I could form my own opinion

The key to the role Dorsey played in this season's struggles revolves around whether or not Dorsey was free to create the strategic & tactical approach the Bills offense took.  By this I mean:

 

*  Was Dorsey the one who suggested that they needed to change Allen's playing style?

 

*  Was Dorsey the one that lobbied to slow the offense down to better compliment the defensive effort?

 

If these are all on Dorsey then he failed on his own.  But if Dorsey was following the orders of McD here then all Dorsey failed at was in the execution of where McD wanted to take Allen and the offense.  And that is very different from "Dorsey failed this season".

 

I don't have the answer to these questions but this article along with other tidbits from McD over the last few months - his interview with the NFL Network is revealing - suggest that McD is the author of the strategy that failed to work for Allen and the offense.  And this IMO, not the 9/11 foot in mouth quote, is the real problem with McD as the Bills head coach. 

 

 

[GoBills808]

 

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

My point is that there wasn't a lot of talent on that offense, and that the OC in  name/HC do not have a track record of getting the best out of their QB - and rookie Allen was a very raw talent who needed his energy and competitiveness to be channeled and developed.  Specifically, there are cases where you have a situation where a QB's performance drops markedly under one coach, then revives markedly under another, and in the case of Russ Wilson and Hackett you see that.  I guess you could also argue that perhaps he got the most out of Blake Bortles in '16-'18.

 

And just for the record, the bolded is nothing I've said or that should reasonably be inferred from what I've said.

 

 

I think it would fall within "fair use"  to share that and what they said.

“Me and Sean got along great,” Smith said. “No one wants the Buffalo Bills to be better. No one wants to do it right more than Sean McDermott. He’s not that guy that’s going to be meeting a player for a beer after practice or after the game. He’s a worker, man. He’s a worker. He’s the boss. He’s obsessed with growing and being great at the boulders and not the pebbles.

“The only thing that matters is being consistent, being genuine, and having a damn good locker room.”

Added DiMarco: “He didn’t serve in the military, but he has that wrestler’s mindset of just: ‘You’re part of a team, look like the rest of everybody, go out, play your ass off and celebrate and do whatever you want after the game, after we get the job done. But until the job’s done, enough with the cute *****. Go succeed.’ Which you can’t argue with.”

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I think it would fall within "fair use"  to share that and what they said.

 

I can do that after I get back from taking my wife for xrays. GoBills808 listed the two i remember and they were mostly saying good things iirc.

[Bruffalo]

I'm late to the party and I haven't read through this thread but I just want to point out how incredibly bizarre and wild this story is.  

 

Even if you want to give McDermott the full benefit of the doubt, this is a gaffe that's just beyond what'd you think is believable.  It's like a sitcom. 

[Warcodered]

 

 

posted it in the game thread but there's a lot of relevance for this thread too.

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

My point is that there wasn't a lot of talent on that offense

 

There was.  Maybe you missed my post

 

Watkins, Robert Woods, Goodwin, Chandler, Jackson.  Hell Spiller was on that team lol.  Not a great back I know but Gailey got a lot out of him.  Thats probably a better group than some of the crap Allen has had here.  Even the oline was decent.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The key to the role Dorsey played in this season's struggles revolves around whether or not Dorsey was free to create the strategic & tactical approach the Bills offense took.  By this I mean:

 

*  Was Dorsey the one who suggested that they needed to change Allen's playing style?

 

*  Was Dorsey the one that lobbied to slow the offense down to better compliment the defensive effort?

 

If these are all on Dorsey then he failed on his own.  But if Dorsey was following the orders of McD here then all Dorsey failed at was in the execution of where McD wanted to take Allen and the offense.  And that is very different from "Dorsey failed this season".

 

I don't have the answer to these questions but this article along with other tidbits from McD over the last few months - his interview with the NFL Network is revealing - suggest that McD is the author of the strategy that failed to work for Allen and the offense.  And this IMO, not the 9/11 foot in mouth quote, is the real problem with McD as the Bills head coach. 

 

 

Yeah I too would lean that a lot of dorseys failings were driven by McDermott

 

Dorsey was here when Josh Allen was scrambling and doing his thing with daboll as the offensive coordinator

 

It would take a special kind of dumb to go away from something that is close to making you a head coach somewhere in the next year or two 

[Beck Water]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

Because you went on about how admirably the defense has played.  They have given up late leads (<2 minutes) in 3 games the Bills lost, didn't make that one stop needed at the end to give Bills a chance when down a score (and ST lost game 1).

 

"ST lost game 1".  You mean the season opener Jets game where Allen threw 3 INTs and fumbled?  Any idea what the W-L stats are when a team has twice as many turnovers as their opponent? 

 

OK, I'm outta here.  Not doing this with someone who comes to that conclusion about that game.

 

Just for the record, I have never said the defense played well against Jacksonville ("what a wonderous game the Bills D played allowing Jax 500+ yards?"); it is logically consistent to feel the the defense has overall played well and kept us in games while the offense wasn't scoring this season overall, while not extolling defensive performance in one specific game.

In the Jax game, there was an almost 2:1 edge in TOP for Jax. 

[Punch]

3 hours ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

Chad Hall truck story?

It's in the Ty Dunne article and outlined in the tweets I posted.

[CincyBillsFan]

53 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If you think rookie/ 2nd year Allen is the same player as Allen now, you lack any objectivity. 

I didn't say that.  Obviously the 2018 & 2019 Allen was a work in progress and far from the elite QB he is today.  What I was responding to was your continued parroting of the false narrative that McD did a good job "developing" Allen.  IMO the evidence from those two years, particularly 2018, was that Allen was thrown to the wolves.

 

The fact is that McD had a "plan" for Allen's development that was poorly designed and executed (sound familiar).  The plan involved bringing AJ McCarron in as the "vet" QB Allen could learn from.  The problem was that no one told McCarron before he signed that was going to be his role and he wanted no part of it.  Then the plan was to let Allen sit and learn while Peterman was named the starting QB.  And how long did that last?  It lasted until Peterman had set a new NFL record for consecutive offensive possessions without getting a 1st down in game 1. In what alternate universe are we going to call this a good plan?