Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Any comparison to Watergate reporters is nonsensical.  Talk to people who matter.  Not Quentin Spain and Chad Hall.  Interview guys who left and came back line Shaq Lawson.  That’s real reporting.  

 

While I agree about comparing sports reporting to anything as serious as Watergate, I also think you are just arbitrarily drawing lines as to what you deem "good sources" vs "bad sources". Spain is a joke, but he's hardly the only source. If any of Chad Hall, Jerry Hughes, Lorenzo Alexander are in there (which is likely), that's decent enough for me. There's enough positive in the article to show it wasnt just a bunch of Spains being bitter.

[Warcodered]

3 hours ago, Beast said:

I remember Marv Levy told his teams Germany didn’t prevail in WW 2 because Hitler couldn’t win on the road.

 

Did people freak out about that comment?

Well it's clearly different in that you really can't see that as potentially complimenting a terrible group of people. Not a great analogy I guess in that well they did win on the road exclusively until they didn't and then they never won at home.

36 minutes ago, wppete said:

It's an awful and inappropriate analogy to have been made, but the "if evil can accomplish this then imagine what we can accomplish' doing things the right way," aspect of the whole thing is pretty much lost in this whole controversy. Which is as inconsiderate an idea as the analogy was that part at least paints him in a better light than the idea that it was simply look how good these terrorists worked together.

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the tweet is true. Whatever you think of McDermott coming out of this story (and as I said before I think there is likely a basis of truth to most of it) Dunne comes off really badly. And he likely doesn't realise what he has just done to his own career.

Even if the season doesn't play out like we hope and they miss the playoffs and McDermott gets fired, it's not like the next HC is going to want this guy anywhere near his players or coaches.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I'm sure Dunne had been working on this longer than the time the "McDermott's job is safe" statements came out but the timing of release makes sense to me.

 

Yea something like this is 2 to 3 months work minimum. I think the timing of the release is more about causing maximum damage to the Bills season (therefore getting McDermott closer to the sack) than it is anything to do with the Athletic article. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Scott7975]

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Funny how people ignore those parts.

 

wHy DoEsNt DuNnE wRiTe PoSiTiVe StUfF

 

Because it doesn't fit what they want to believe.  Also most of that stuff is behind a paywall and probably some people didn't even read the free parts... just the snippets posted here.  I swear if it wasn't against the ToS of this website, I would copy paste the whole thing here lol.

[Beck Water]

24 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

If you put Allen on the 2014 Marrone Bills that went 9-7 with Kyle Orton at QB, I'd bet good money that team wins the Division and makes a good run in the playoffs.

 

Maybe.  The 2014 Marrone-led Bills went to 9-7 on the strength of a #4 overall defense.  They had a fading FredEx as their leading rusher, and Watkins (best season as a pro), and not much else as weapons. 

The OC was nominally Nathaniel Hackett, whom Aaron Rodgers likes a lot and who got a chance to flame out as the Denver HC based on that liking.  He hasn't done a lot otherwise, which one could attribute to having Blake Bortles as his QB in Jacksonville and Zach Wilson with the Jets. 

 

Or one could look at it as, Hackett has yet to demonstrate that he can develop a QB nor work with a QB who showed success elsewhere (Wilson).

 

I personally think this kind of revisionist speculation is pointless, and certainly debatable, but with the huge growth in Sports Betting it wouldn't shock me if you could actually make such a bet.

By the way, a number of lines of evidence point to Marrone having a pretty giant ego, at least while he was with the Bills.  Remember "Saint Doug"?  And there was a reporter who wrote about a wierd private interview session he had with Marrone after publishing some info that made Marrone look bad, that had shades of the "Godfather" about it.  I seem to recall several articles at the time.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Beck Water

[BuffaloRebound]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

While I agree about comparing sports reporting to anything as serious as Watergate, I also think you are just arbitrarily drawing lines as to what you deem "good sources" vs "bad sources". Spain is a joke, but he's hardly the only source. If any of Chad Hall, Jerry Hughes, Lorenzo Alexander are in there (which is likely), that's decent enough for me. There's enough positive in the article to show it wasnt just a bunch of Spains being bitter.

Since I’m not paying $8 to read this, only thing I’d be interested in is the named sources in the article 

[Beck Water]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

  I swear if it wasn't against the ToS of this website, I would copy paste the whole thing here lol.

 

Leaving aside ToS, there is this thing called Copyright Law

[Scott7975]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Any comparison to Watergate reporters is nonsensical.  Talk to people who matter.  Not Quentin Spain and Chad Hall.  Interview guys who left and came back line Shaq Lawson.  That’s real reporting.  

 

Everyone matters otherwise it's biased and he did interview people that left and came back but again.... you didn't read the article.

[GoBills808]

Just now, BuffaloRebound said:

Since I’m not paying $8 to read this, only thing I’d be interested in is the named sources in the article 

There are zero named sources and to expect differently is naive

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Not everyone in the article said negative stuff.  Look, I know almost no one in this thread has read the entire article but I have said all over this thread that the entire thing isn't negative nor is everyone he talked to.  Also IMO, the 9/11 part wasn't even the worst part of the article and it was a small section of a large article.  It's just what everyone is focused on.

 

Completely agree!  

 

Thanks for pointing that out.  

 

It's a great piece, and contrary to the notions that Dunne whipped it up on short-order and simply decided to release it now, that's ridiculous.  The amount of time and effort that clearly went into it must've taken many months at least.  Well before the start of the season.  

 

But yeah, the piece says some positive things too, but it's also clear that those positives are McD's ceiling, and that he simply doesn't have the polished nuances that are necessary for the team to optimize the play of the team.  Those things have also gone noticed by most people here as well however, but we've simply not had the hard evidence to validate them.  

 

 

[BFLO]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Any comparison to Watergate reporters is nonsensical.  Talk to people who matter.  Not Quentin Spain and Chad Hall.  Interview guys who left and came back line Shaq Lawson.  That’s real reporting.  

Deep Throat didn't even work at the White House. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Leaving aside ToS, there is this thing called Copyright Law

 

Yeah but I'm a rebel. 

17 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

It was the perfect time to release it. If McDermott is the man for this job - one to lead this franchise to its first Super Bowl win - then an article with a few negative quotes is not going to distract him or the team and they'll be fine.

 

If he's as bad as many think, Dunne's article will help lead this team down into the dumps and the fan pressure will (hopefully) require Pegula to make a change in January.

 

I get that point of view I just don't want any excuses like last year "we were mentally exhausted" type stuff.  I never bought into that excuse making.

[Billsfan1972]

18 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

The result IMO was objectively under-whelming and under-performing.  Yes, the Bills D gave up some game winning drives, but if the offense is functioning at the level expected for a "gift from the Football Gods" QB, there shouldn't be so many games where a drive in the final minutes can turn the game - and the defense is also objectively depleted by key injuries at every level and has frankly done better than I expected.

 

My opinion

Again are you one of those going on about what a wonderous game the Bills D played allowing Jax 500+ yards?  Yea yea yea injuries, but 500 yards!!!!!  

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Maybe.  The 2014 Marrone-led Bills went to 9-7 on the strength of a #4 overall defense.  They had a fading FredEx as their leading rusher, and Watkins (best season as a pro), and not much else as weapons. 

The OC was nominally Nathaniel Hackett, whom Aaron Rodgers likes a lot and who got a chance to flame out as the Denver HC based on that liking.  He hasn't done a lot otherwise, which one could attribute to having Blake Bortles as his QB in Jacksonville and Zach Wilson with the Jets. 

 

Or one could look at it as, Hackett has yet to demonstrate that he can develop a QB nor work with a QB who showed success elsewhere (Wilson).

 

I personally think this kind of revisionist speculation is pointless, and certainly debatable, but with the huge growth in Sports Betting it wouldn't shock me if you could actually make such a bet.

 

 

 

That's my point. They did that well only based on their top Defense. Throw in a real QB, let alone a dual threat like Allen, and we have at least 2 more wins (Denver and Raiders) which puts us in the playoffs. And away we go.

 

Of course it's speculation, and pointless. But it has as much creedance as any statement saying none of the other coaches would do better with Allen on their team. We all lived the drought. We all should know/remember our biggest issue was not being able to find a QB.

[Cray51]

26 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's not your or my or our job to find them. When we fired Rex, did you even know Sean McDermott existed? I didn't.

 

But the consulting firm helped Terry identify him as a candidate, and the professionals worked it out from there.

 

Look in our own division. The Miami Dolphins. They had a Defensive-minded, supposed "high character" guy who couldn't get the most from his talented roster and was neutering their franchise QB. They fire Flores and bring in McDaniel, an unheard of dork, and Tua sees immediate improvement and here they are in year 2 as the #1 seed in the AFC and about to take the Division from us. No major tear down and rebuild, just a quick change to a younger, modern, Offensive minded HC.

 

Heck with that said, if the O continues to put up 30+ every game, hand the keys to Brady and let's roll.

 

The new coach may or may not take us to the promise land, but we know based on MULTIPLE examples that McDermott simply can't/won't.

That's fair, put the trust in people who can identify potential candidates that fit what we are looking for.

 

To be fair, Flores had never shown the top end result McD has.  And to add, McDaniel wasn't unheard of, just very unproven.  We talk a lot about Ben Johnson, but his offense has shown to have some stinkers against top end competition.  And to be fair to McD, for MOST of his tenure, he has beaten up on teams who are bad/average, and only has lost to the best of the best.  Heck, even McDaniel's Miami team has been criticized with not being good against great teams.  They remind me a lot of the 2019 Bills, who were good but found themselves losing to the best teams in the league.

 

I trust Beane to evaluate talent.  I dont necessarily trust Pegula, but I can understand people wanting a change.  This article doesn't do anything to sway me to a new coach, I'm in the mindset that if Sean doesn't make the playoffs, we will likely move on and bring in a new coach.  But that's to performance and ONLY performance.  These anecdotal stories from several years doesn't really give me any pause in who Sean is.  He is what most HCs are, methodical to a fault, and self-confident to a fault.

 

If the Bills fire Sean, and bring in an OC, I'll be just as excited as if we keep Sean and roll into next year.  I don't think that's the case for most on the board, who will be more excited with a new HC than Sean.

 

 

[Buffalo03]

12 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Or like a McDermott/Allen situation.

Not the same thing. What you're referring to as not winning anything is a Super Bowl. They have won plenty together in the regular season and in the playoffs. Herbert/Staley has been together for 3 years and had one playoff game and a huge collapse in that one game. You wanna talk about losing one score games, Staley is the king

33 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And how exactly do you know?  Like me you have no idea, just an opinion.  I however can promise you 99%+ of coaches wouldn't have screwed up 13 seconds or had 12 men on the field vs. Denver.

 

Everything else is just an OPINION. 

 

Just like some of us think McD is not a good coach (something I have stood behind from halfway through season 1).

Because McDermott is better than any of those guys. I would take McDermott without Allen than any of those other coaches with what they had. 

[Beck Water]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea something like this is 2 to 3 months work. I think the timing of the release is more about causing maximum damage to the Bills season (therefore getting McDermott closer to the sack) than it is anything to do with the Athletic article. 

 

I know you have a background as a journalist, but I would have guessed it was sourced over more like a year.  I would guess that as Dunne talks to people, he collects notes and quotes on what they say on several topics and of further sources to follow-up with, and collects them in literal or figurative "folders" which he reviews periodically in view of likely current topical interest.

 

But are you saying that Dunne timed the release deliberately to damage the Bills season and to maximize the possibility that McDermott gets fired?  Because journalists who know him have spoken out that Dunne is not a guy with an "axe to grind", but timing an article's release to maximize damage to his home town team's season and its head coach, kind of would sound like an ax.  If I'm misinterpreting you, please do clarify and correct.

[Buffalo03]

30 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

If you put Allen on the 2014 Marrone Bills that went 9-7 with Kyle Orton at QB, I'd bet good money that team wins the Division and makes a good run in the playoffs.

 

 

And how did that work out for being a head coach?

Possibly. Maybe moreso that team than with any of the other guys we had before McDermott 

[Wayne Arnold]

1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

Not the same thing. What you're referring to as not winning anything is a Super Bowl. They have won plenty together in the regular season and in the playoffs. Herbert/Staley has been together for 3 years and had one playoff game and a huge collapse in that one game. You wanna talk about losing one score games, Staley is the king

 

Staley has only been a head coach for two seasons man. McDermott is on his 7th. Sheesh.

 

And Herbert - while good - isn't the player that Josh Allen is.

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

sadly with some the bar isn't very high on the most intelligent things people have ever said.

 

but when you are in front of a microphone every day then you're bound to make mistakes and not come off as best as possible. hell, i was just on the news for an interview. took 35 minutes for the interview and it brought down to 4 minutes. i look about as special needs as they come... i have half of a mind to post it.

Pleaseeeeeeeee do